MikeWood

Our demos have been through many sets of DS2000, DS3000 and other pads and the wheels have normally been cleaned with soap and water as you would clean the paintwork. The wheels still appear as new and come clean quite easily.
The only time we have had any problems is when a propriety 'wheel cleaner' has been used. These generally are fairly aggressive despite the claims and have led to various subsequent cleaning problems. On one occasion the valeter we use sprayed on his wheel cleaner before I could stop him and we watched all the corrosion protection dissolving off the discs in front of our eyes. To say I was unhappy would be a major understatement.
We have also had several sets of wheels back with staining problems caused by a wheel cleaning agent attacking the laquer and allowing the dust to be included in the laquer finish. This leaves very unsightly spots and stains on the wheels which cannot be removed.

So the answer is treat your wheels in the same way as your bodywork and they will come clean every time.

Regards

Mike

Rob D

Mike,

I've had the 330mm Alcon/Prodrive brake upgrade fitted to my RB5 a couple of months back.
Although I am extremely happy with the performance of the brakes, my allows are now suffering badly with brake dust which is now appearing to weld to the wheel making them almost impossible to clean.
I've tried all of the domestic wheel cleaners/wax and clean my car at least once a week, but whatever I try it just does not remove the all of the dust.
I know that there will possibly be a trade off in performance and additional brake dust, but I'm having to use excessive force to remove the layers of dust that have caked onto the wheel, leaving me in the position in the very near future of having my wheels re-furbished due to paint flaking.
Surely this cannot be right after 3 months of driving, to have your alloys shotblasted to remove the dust.
I'm not in any way complaining about the brakes themselves I think they are phenomenal, but the brake pads appear to be very dusty

Feedback/anyone??

Cheers,

Rob.

chuckster

I'll second you. I CAN get the wheels clean, but it is very very hard to do (scratching with the fingernails seems only way). I understand WoW man has a magic clay block which he says will probably get rid of this. Arron, did you try it?
Otherwise I'll be going to DS2000's for my next set of pads.
Regards
Chuck

BillyHeadcase

I've always used Wonderwheels. It works really fast so the trick is to wash it off quickly. Had my scooby 6 months and the original wheels are perfect. My previous car was a golf GTI which I had from new from 1997. When that went back to the lease co after 3 years the wheels were absolutely un-marked. I try never to let my wheels go more than 2-3 weeks so the brake dust doesnt bake on. erm.....so there

BillyHeadcase

Oh and also, I occasionally spray a little WD40 into a rag and wipe it over the wheels after I've cleaned em........WAKE UP THIS IS INTERESTING!!!!!!!!

BillyHeadcase

Cleaning wheels is rather like making love to a beautiful woman. Get yer tackle out, rub furiously until moist, then, do the business.....make sure the disks have cooled down first though....OUCH.

Right lunch over, I'll stop bothering you now.

chuckster

Sorry, I don't buy it. I never had this problem when running DS2000's. I haven't changed my cleaning technique. As you stated Mike, with the DS2000's soap and water was fine. The Alcons with their DS3000's are a nightmare. Unfortunately my wheels are gold so the mess is very visible, unless alot of effort is made to clean them. They do stop me bloody well though, damn I just can't bring myself to hate them.
Chuck

Rob D

Mike,

Thanks for the reply.
I can understand problems occuring with propriety wheel cleaners, but I had no problem with my wheels with my old 4 pots using my normal wheel cleaner, until I changed my brakes.
I must of had 15 months or so on the 4 pots without a blemish on the allows, but within 3 months the wheels are looking poor on the Alcon setup.

Is it normal for your wheels to light up like a catherine wheel at a firework display under heaving braking? I only found out about this when stopping to meet other Scooby owners and they mentioned about the sparks flying from the wheels, I didn't beleive it until I saw it myself on the camcorder. This may have been because of excessive brake dust built up on the wheels but I don't know, any suggestions?

Billy, what brake setup do you have??

Chuckster, what pads are you running now?

Cheers,

Rob




[This message has been edited by Rob D (edited 09 November 2000).]

Cunning Linguss

Sounds like it isn't the pads, but the lacqueur on the wheels.

Chuckster & Rob - do you both run on ProDrive wheels ? It could be the lacqueur isn't resistant enough to a proprietary wheel cleaner, which is not on at all.

I'd be curious to know if anyone was running Alcon's with non-Prodrive wheels. I wonder if these wheels suffer the same fate, or are more resistant ?

NOZZER

I also have 330mm 4 pot alcon with oz gold st2 and i can,t get the brake dust off. The pads are ds2000. The only way i get it off is by taking it to my dealers and they use some acid stuff with a jet wash. No doubt it is knackering the lacquer but it seems the only way. I bite my nails so i can't scrape although this does work!!!!
Advice please

chuckster

It's a grand conspiracy to get us all onto Anthracite wheels .
You'll never convert me though!!!
C

bob

I have the Alcon brake package and rearly clean my wheels (only when jet washing um) They still look as clean as the day I had them fitted ;(
Oh the joys of anthracite.

Rob D

Well it looks like I'm not the only one with this problem.
Some drivers seem to suffer, others don't, there is a mixture of both DS2000 and DS3000 pads so what’s the difference!
Honestly after a few days normal driving, I can guarantee soap and water will not remove my dust it has to be wheel cleaner and a firm brush, and even that's a struggle.

Answers anyone??

Cheers,

Rob.
(still puzzled)

AndyMc

The pads that came with my car(my98 with 2 pots)had dust that seemed to eat into the wheel finish and could not be removed with soapy water.
I try not to use wheel cleaners such as wonder wheels,from past experience I have found they damage the finish in the long run and you end up having to use it all the time.

In the end I did use it but by this stage the wheels were a mess and my dealer replaced them under warranty. I have since replaced the brakes with Subaru 4 pots with standard pads and the dust from these just washes off with water even after a trackday.I also had EBC greenstuff pads for a while(which were absolute crap)and the dust from these just wiped off too.

Andy

Diablo

Can we do a quick poll here, cos I think I know the problem.

How many of you with dust/staining you cannot remove used one of the "off the shelf" wheel cleaners before the problem got bad?

And how many with problems gave the wheels a few coats of quality wax or polish when they were new and clean?

This topic has been covered elsewhere (although the sparking issue is a new one ), but generally speaking with adequate waxing, and NO use of the damaging "cleaners" any dust should wash off with even water alone.

If the acid based wheel cleaners are used (despite what it says in the tin ) they damage the surface laquer and the hot dust particles weld themselves to the unprotected paint. Coats of wax prevent this.

Simply the "wondercleanandshiny Wheels" products ARE too good to be *true* How many of you would clean your car's bodywork with the stuff??? Wheels should be treated the same.

D



[This message has been edited by Diablo (edited 10 November 2000).]

Stef

I used to get these bits of pad residue on my wheels when I was using DC3000's, but they came off OK. I always wax my wheels though to make cleaning easier.

Stef.

RaymondH

I have the 330mm Alcon set up with Kosei Sniper wheels and am fed up to my back teeth with trying to get the mess off the front. During the summer (remember that - it was on a Thursday this year) I washed the wheels 2 or 3 times a week and the dust usually came off fairly easily unless it had been raining when it was a lot harder. Presumably getting wet allows the dust to eat in. The wheels have never been cleaned with a proprietary cleaner, just soap and water, and I have tried various polishes (Autoglym, Mer and Turtle Wax) usually putting on several coats and this is also a waste of time. The final straw came on Saturday when I washed the car for the first time in a fortnight and the wheels look fit for the bin. Hell knows what they will look like after the winter at this rate. Anyway, the worst build up is in the angle between the spokes and the rims (10 spoke wheels) and I carefully applied a little Autoglym wheel cleaner on a small area and even that took a lot of work to get all the crud off - it looks and feels like baked on carbon and it's a bit like decoking a cylinder head, it's that bad. I'm off to phone the Wizard and order some of his gel wheel cleaner and protectant and keep my fingers crossed that this has some effect - at least I can believe Mark's claims that his products won't harm my wheels or brakes. I have to say that I am 100% happy with the performance of my brakes but that bluddy dust.........

russell hayward

I have now had the 18" gold wheels on my P1 and have covered about 100 miles since they were fitted. Yes, I have the same problem with the brake dust from the Alcon/Ferodo 3000 combination.

Please help Mike Wood as my very expensive wheels will not come clean!!

Rob D

Interesting post this is turning out to be.

Diablo,
In answer to your question regarding "off the shelf" wheel cleaners, yes I have used these products for the last 3 years but with no problems, as I said before the rear wheels still look brand new.

Realizing the dust build up only after a few washes with the Alcon set-up, I started waxing my wheels to help remove the dust, but in my opinion this made little or no difference at all.

A few of you have stated treat your wheels like your bodywork, I totally agree with that statement, but your bodywork does not suffer the same temperatures and materials being deposited on the paintwork.
Like RaymondH said it looks and feels like baked on carbon and it's a bit like decoking a cylinder head!

Do the other people with Alcons suffer this carbon effect???

Cheers,

Rob.




[This message has been edited by Rob D (edited 16 November 2000).]

Chris L

I have the standard 4 pot brakes on my MY00. I've always cleaned the wheels with just soap and water and they've been fine. I try to do them once a week and this seems to be OK.

I would steer clear of the acid based cleaners already mentioned and I would also recommend waxing your wheels as this does help to build up a barrier to the dust. Probably also worth having a chat with Mark Underwood at

sunilp

Notice the Prodive absence yet again?

russell hayward

I have talked to Mike Wood at Prodrive.

Apparently, some new Ferodo pads are being tested as we speak which will hopefully reduce the wheel cleaning problem.

The difficulties experienced are definitely down to the pad material used in the DS3000 it seems.

More as it happens...

EvilBevel

From my personal experience, I would suggest the possibility to go to DS2000 for road use, and keep the DS3000 for track use. Clean alloys and bodywork (!) immediately after having been on track.

Mind you, just my opinion, caveat emptor, IANAL, without prejudice, and I've been wrong before

Theo

Crap spelling edit

[This message has been edited by EvilBevel (edited 17 November 2000).]

Rob D

Chris, I had the standard 4 pots for 15 months and yes the dust can be removed with soap and water, but beleive me the Alcon setup is a total different ball game in regards of brake mad material.

Russel you spoke to Prodrive and they said, some new Ferodo pads are being tested as we speak which will hopefully reduce the wheel cleaning problem.
So do they think there is a problem with wheel cleaning the old pads then??? Interesting

Rob.

Rob D

Chris, I had the standard 4 pots for 15 months and yes the dust can be removed with soap and water, but believe me the Alcon set-up is a total different ball game in regards of brake mad material.

Russell you spoke to Prodrive and they said some new Ferodo pads are being tested as we speak which will hopefully reduce the wheel cleaning problem.
So do they think there is a problem with wheel cleaning the old pads then??? Interesting

Rob.

RaymondH

Well, drastic measures but I managed to clean my wheels this afty. I bought some of the Wax Wizard wheel cleaner and also some stuff called Muc-Off from Halfords (this is a non acidic cleaner meant for mountain bikes and was recommended to me by a friend who uses it all the time himself) and treated a front wheel each with them. The loose dust and dirt came off easily with both of them but neither made much impression on the 'carbon' build up. I re-applied them and this time used a very stiff bristled bottle brush but this did not help much either. In desperation I explored our house until I found the kitchen (wife told me where it was )and acquired one of these metallic pot scrubbers that looks like a lump of soft swarf . A further application of cleaners and a fairly gentle rub with the pot scrubber left my wheels looking like new . This did not leave any marks that I can tell but I wouldn't like to do it too often. As a matter of interest I didn't find any difference between the Wax Wizard cleaner and the Muc-Off, which is also biodegradable, environmentally friendly etc etc. Also, in case anybody wants to order some, Wax Wizard no longer stocks the wheel protectant.

Andy Gough

The sparking from the brake disc is due to the carbon metallic pads getting up to temprature (eg Hot)and burning off. I did some development work for Mintex a few years ago whilst competing in a National Race/Rally championship. The pads I was using were a precursor to the latest pads available today.
The fireworks you see are not detrimental and in fact are a no cost added value option. Don't moan, it just shows you are trying!

kurtw

I can't beleive this post - so timely.

I've got the Prodrive brake setup and 18" Prodrive alloys on my P1 and I've looked after the wheels real well. They are also only a few weeks old, so they should be real easy to clean.

Two weeks ago, I missed a weekend and ended up cleaning two weeks worth of brake dust off. Could I shift it - NO WAY. I had to scrub it off, and even so, only shifted about half of it.

Today, I spent nearly 2 hours cleaning my wheels, trying to get the brake dust from hell off them once again. I eventually succeeded, using loads of Autoglym wheel cleaner (not the retail stuff, but a milder commercial formula). I had to soak the wheels, clean it off, re-soak, clean some more and so on..... When I progressed to the back wheels, it took me 5 mins, they were a piece of cake to clean. Can only be down to the brake dust.

Anyway, then, onto the bodywork. Ahhhhhhhh!!!!!!!

The same sh1tty stuff that was all over the wheels is also down the sides of the car. I can tell, because the sponge made a mildly-abrasive noise as I went over the affected areas. Anywhere other than in between the front and rear wheels was fine however.

It looks like the only way I'll be able to remove it will be to use the same wheel cleaner, but diluted. It says on the container that you can do this.

Anyone had the same problem with the bodywork as well?

russell hayward

Took the problem up with my dealer and also wrote a stiff letter to Subaru UK rejecting the brake conversion. They inspected my brakes (ds3000 pads) and concluded it is fall out from the disc causing the wheel cleaning problems.This fits as the "dust" does feel very n
metallic.

My discs have no grooves left on the inside after only 7,000 mainly m/way miles and no track days.

I too can see the splurge down the side of the car .

Those pads are mega hard. Discs will be replaced next week under warranty together with ds 2000 pads as replacements and some new wheels, when they arrive. The ds2000 are softer and the downside is they will not withstand "the extreme of high temperatures" not that that really bothers me.

I'll let you know if the wheels are easier to clean next week.

Russell

nb The gold wheels are a lot lot harder to clean than the Anthracite in my experience.

[This message has been edited by russell hayward (edited 25 November 2000).]

tubs

The best way to clean both the bodywork and wheels is with a clay bar. I use Mothers California Gold clay bar which removes just about all debris stuck in the surface. Mothers is an American company and they have a website