pg9am

ANY THOUGHTS ON AP RACING 6 POT BRAKES - COMPARED TO PRODRIVE'S 4-POT SETUP FOR THE P1? Anyone have a set of 6-pots or ap brakes?

GavinP

I would recommend using the "Search" facility just under/to the right of "Post Reply".

There has been a lot of posts regarding AP brakes.

Thanks

Gavin

Ian Sutton

Don't know about the 6 pot AP kit but my 4 pot AP kit with 330mm discs is the nuts.

So it must be good.Mike at Scooby Mania has it fitted to his own car I believe.He also sells the kits.

Hope it helps a wee bit...Ian

MorayMackenzie

Ian,

No offence intended to any party here, but if you sold car upgrades, wouldn't you fit the product you sold to your own car? Why does that instantly guarantee that "they must be good"?

Moray

Stef

I have the smaller AP 4-pot kit which is unbelievable. The 6-pot kit must be a further improvement so I would think it's fair to say that it too must be pretty phenominal.
How it compares to the Alcon kit I don't know, but in theory any kits in this price bracket should all be similar in performance.
Only in theory of course!

Stef.

gregh

Mike,

Do you know what discs the Prodrive upgrade uses that Subaru dealers sell, meant to be £140 ea

Cheers,

Greg

[This message has been edited by gregh (edited 30-06-2000).]

DavidLewis

Again, in support of Moray....

Which brake kit does Pete C sell?
Which brake kit does Pete C have fitted to his car?

Ian Sutton

Moray I am merely giving imformation about the bits on my car.I don't comment on anything that I have not tried.

And anyway why should Scooby sport and Scooby mania sell junk, they are both run by enthusiasts, Pete and Mike fit the items they sell on their own cars thus the products must be good.

Mike Tuckwood

Moray, that was a silly thing to say really, (regardless of the no offence comment).

I have AP Racing on my car because they are the best brakes available in the world.

I watched carefully for a considerable time at what was available and tried another manufacturers kit first (Tarox 6 pot) and wasn't impressed with any of them.

All of them had residual and long standing associated problems, (Vibration, cracking and various reported warranty issues).

I could easily have decided to sell Brembo, Tarox, Willwood or any other.

But when the fat lady sang and after a lot of very close scrutiny and investigation, AP Racing stood (more than) a clear head and shoulders above the rest.

They are simply unrivalled, which is THE reason I have them on my car. (Moray )

I didn't accidentally end up working somewhere that sold AP Racing brakes, they were chosen by me for the above reasons.

As Stef rightly states, they are phenomenal, the 4 pot calipers are unbeatable and the 6 pots are the next level up. <I>is that actually possible?</I>

The 6 pots will not be used to their limits unless on slicks, where they will present another step up in available performance.

Overkill? Probably.
The Best. Without a shadow of doubt.

Mike.

<I>Alcon are made differently, (cheaper) and still sell for a similar price. IM making a massive profit margin selling cheaper kit at inflated prices again?</I>

[This message has been edited by Mike Tuckwood (edited 30-06-2000).]

chuckster

I doubt you will get an unbiased opinion from anyone who has paid for a brake upgrade as to which is the better, everyone wants to believe he made the wisest choice.
Stef makes the best point, every report I've read from someone with a brake upgrade rates it very highly - so choice is really up to you.
Alcon's real advantage is if you get it fit when new you can add cost to your finance package.
Charles

AlastairB

Have to agree with Moray here....

Frankly I would expect that a vendor of a product <I>would</I> fit and use that, for lot's of reasons. It's advertising for it, it shows confidence in the product, and it's going to be cheaper.

I can't think of any example where given similar performing products, a vendor of one will choose to use the product of a competitor. That would be like turning up at Prodrive and expecting to see a carpark full of EVO VIs....

That's not to say that any product is better or worse (because that argument can rage for ages, and ultimately comes down to what matters to each individual).

Mike - you claim that "without a shadow of a doubt" AP are the best. Well, entertain my doubt, and explain why? I'm happy to believe they <I>are</I>, but what's the evidence? I'm sure Scoobysport can make a strong case that Brembo are the best.

So - why are they best? Do they stop a Subaru in a shorter distance than the other kits (all else being equal). Do they last longer on the track? Do they have longer disc life or pad life? Are they cheaper for the same performance?

I've made the point in the past that all the options offer excellent performance, and that it will probably be other factors that influence a decision - e.g. branding, finance (as chuckster points out), looks etc.

So convince me otherwise - why are AP the best?

Cheers
Alastair

MorayMackenzie

Guys,

As I said, no offence was intended to anyone... I was merely pointing out that it's highly unlikely that someone selling kit would flaunt anyone elses kit on their car.

Thanks to David and Alistair, who seem to have taken my point the way it was intended.


Ian Sutton,

You did comment on something you haven't tried... you basically stated that because the 4 pots are good in your expirience, the 6 pots MUST be good.

BTW: I suspect many of the guys at Prodrive are car enthusiasts... that doesn't guarantee that everything they sell is great, does it? I seem to recall that one years PPP was a complete let down.


Mike Tuckwood,

I don't think my comment was as silly as the suggestion that spawned it.

I was not in any way commenting on the AP kits through making my comment. I bought my Brembo kit ages before your kit became available, so I didn't really get the cance to choose. Had your kit been available at the time, I would probably have been torn between the AP racing kit's WRC/competition pedigree (after all, AP's good enough for Mitsubishi's winning cars et al! ) and the Brembo/Scoobysport kit's excellent Warrantee.

Unfortunatly, I have been cursed with having to drive scoobies for a fairly long time and I felt the need to replace the 2 pot standard kit well before your company made an appearance on the scene.

Back to the real point... Simply stated, of course you are going to run your best wares on your own car for all to see (and for you to enjoy)... it would be unnatural not to!

Personally, if I were going to design a new kit for this type of market, I would first buy the best currently available kit/s and thoroughly evaluate them on my own car... thus finding their strengths, weaknesses and allowing me to decide my goals, and whether or not it would be commercially viable to develop a new product... but then, I'm weird like that!

Moray

Ian Sutton

Point taken everyone.

Mike Tuckwood

At the risk of shooting off at a tangent, the point I tried to make was that if I wanted, I can buy a complete Brembo kit from the UK importers and sell it.

Brembo owners that have spoke to me have come with a catalogue of cracked discs, vibration and warranty issues that simply don't occur with AP (on the whole).


I will leave it to AP owners to battle it out and make their points.

AP are purely Race orientated and I believe they produce a better product because of that.

They have been at it 50 years longer than Brembo. AP Racing brakes don't cover 80% of the F1 grids for no reason. <I>(Ferrari follow rather nationalistic ethics in using Brembo)</I>.

Not trying to be contentious, just pointing out that the choice of who to use was not imposed upon me due to already selling their products. (As Moray sort of implied).

Chuck is right, speak to the owners ask them what problems they've had Etc.

Ian Sutton

Mike i can feel those cannons being turned your direction now..phew!

pnebbs

Mike

I've got no axe to grind about any of the Brake manufacturers but some ofyour comments are rather strange:

"AP are purely race orientated"
Howcome they sell so many fast road kits, or are you saying that your kits are purely for use when racing!!!

"80% of F1 use, Ferrari use Brembo for nationalistic reasons"
Who told you why Ferrari use Brembo - Jean Todt?, and whose leading the Manufacturers and Drivers championship, and who won constructors last year?

"AP have been at it 50 years longer than Brembo"
Does that mean that Ford makes better cars than Subaru because they have been atit (I mean at it, not a tit ) for 50 years longer?

Paul



[This message has been edited by pnebbs (edited 30-06-2000).]

Ian Sutton

knew it!

Mike Tuckwood

Hehe.

It was bound to go this way I suppose. :-)

Not strange just true.

AP's heritage is predominantly Racing, Brembo make big of the fact that they are OE spec fro various cars <I>(OE meaning mass produced with their name on, on behalf of)</I>

They sell 'so many fast road kits' because they are so good.

Driver skill was not part of my point re. F1.

Thanks for the help Ian.

Mike.

AlastairB

Mike,

Are you aware that on their Web site, Brembo claim to supply 50% of the F1 teams (Benetton, Ferrari, Jordan, Minardi, Prost, Sauber).

So, add that to the 80% that AP supply, and that covers 130% of them. Guess Alcon must do the rest!

Cheers
Alastair

PS Info was here:

bob

Hi
Just bought the Prodrive Alcon kit. I am still running in so cannot give a performance revue. Why buy Alcon. I think the valve of my car on my next exchange has just gone up. I hear Mike Woods demo of the kit was astounding. The calipers and disks look cool. I got it £200 cheaper than the competitions.
I cannot say these brakes are better than anyone elses, But I do like them.
Bob

Mike Tuckwood

Alistair.

My mistake.

AP Racing supply 80% of the <B>clutches</B> on the F1 grid, they only claim to provide <B>'The Majority'</B> of the brakes for the F1 grid.

The math's still doesn't make sense though? Perhaps Brembo has the bigger half?

Mike.

pg9am

Thanks to 'Gavin P' for the tip about the search facility for the AP brakes. I have done a full check now and have confidence that I will have the best brakes available for an Impreza (without the 18" 343mm kit!)- The 6-pot 330mm ap racing. I have just had an email from AP and basically its a development from the exact kit used on the 2.5 tonne aston vantage V8! It must be bloody good to stop that much weight. In my opinion AP's are best- I have used many setups on racing cars before. Bigger the better.

AlastairB

Speaking of the Vantage brakes (how *do* you stop a mobile drawing room from 200 mph!!), can anyone remember the article about the 600bhp version in Performance Car....

There was some fact about doing a full stop from 200mph to rest resulting in the AP brakes dissipating enough energy to heat a pensioner's flat for a fortnight or similar!!

Anyone have the article to get the exact quote?

Cheer
Alastair

Bajie

Now that the argument for the brakes is settled, which pads will you use?