KSY

Paul, these tyres were on it, I've bought it 4 days before

I do want to take some lessons and _feel_ the car in a big open place.

I seem to know theoretically what to do, but have no practice. Unfortunately my previous car (Civic) had very strong understeer, and was nearly impossible to skid. I've lost all my snow&ice driving skills here. I'm looking forward to attending something like a track day somewhere in Scotland, not for a race, but to use an empty space for practice. Scoobynetters may know of some other place to practice, not a track...

[adding:]
And I'm not quite OK. I's nearly impossible to get killed at 35mph. I'm terribly sorry about the car - it's my first accident ever, after having a license for 10 years.


[Edited by KSY - 12/11/2002 7:11:22 PM]

Wilster at Work

What is it about damp roundabouts, Scoobys and understeer. Seems to be a perennial problem. Its taken me a while to get over/admit to this one, 'cos I thought I was just a crap driver :

The other day in good 'ole Milton Keynes was zooming up dual c/w in early morning, no traffic, steered into damp roundabout no problem, went through the 'apex' and the front just let go giving me no chance, so up the kerb I went. Dunno how fast was too busy contemplating the motorway barrier. Luckily the beast stopped in time. Now I know its all my fault but:

The car does seem to let go surprisingly easily, so whats the most likely root cause? (Car is MY99 4dr, no mods, yet).

1. Tyres - Bridgestone Potenza RE10 (205R16 4mm tread i.e. 50% wear)
2. Suspension set up
3. Suspension design/components
4. Wheel size (16 inch)
5. Tracking
6. All of the above
7. ?

Any help/suggestions much appreciated.

O'h yehh, the damage:

Bent lower suspension arm
Knackered shock
Minor paintwork
Buckled wheel/damaged tyre

Grand total of £1000, no Christmas pressies for me
On the positive side, although the steering was a little bit out of alignment, the car was still solid as a rock at all speeds. Amazing 'cos I did hit the kerb bloody hard and almost square on!!

Paul.

Echo

Blimey! I'll take it easy round Milton Keynes in future. Sorry about your ruined Xmas!

:-(

Mike

dowser

Get rid of the tyres.

Regardless of anything else a full geometry set-up is very beneficial too, adding as much negative camber as you feel comfortable with.

The rest depends on how far you want to go and how much you want to spend I'd start with an adjustable rear ARB (transfers forces to front tyres, increasing grip on turn in) and an ALK (or whatever it's to be renamed) which will increase castor on turn-in (more negative camber while turning, basically).

Best is to try another car with the mods you're considering before investing though - different driving styles like different mods.

Richard

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Agree with Dowser, get rid of the tyres, they suck as to speak, dry and wet.
Try Toyo's or Goodyears, SO2's would have been nice but they dont make them anymore

Tony

ScoobyJawa

bin tyres for Eagle F1 GSD3, get the bumpsteer mod done - 120 quid + VAT (this almost eliminates understeer) and they'll do the geom as part of it. Then get 17's, eibachs..............

Wilster at Work

He he, cheers guys, I accidentally posted here originally, when I wanted to put it in the general section - the thread has continued there in anger I think! Top banana. I will mod it, once I've got over getting the thing back to standard form at least!! And yep that will be with F1's.....

Paul.

KSY

I've done a silly thing that started just like yours. But mine has gone to oversteer, and I wasn't ready for that

1. Fron tyres (Eagle F1) were better than rear (Potenza)

2. Lift-off oversteer, you all know that, I didn't press accelerator at all.

3. Maybe I did not steer enough towards the skid.

Jumped up the kerb, and had a side impact against the separation barrier with the left hand side of the car. Entered the roundabout at stupid 35mph. Write-off.

Dunki2001

Mixed tyres makes!!! bad move. sorry to to hear misfortune.

I have zz1's and are lethal in wet. Have suffered from under steer alot. Interesting nobody has mentioned tyre pressures... can make a big differnce.

Wilster at Work

KSY

That doesn't sound good, take it you're OK. Sounds like we both need lessons! How come you ended up with different tyres front and rear?

Paul.

Barnaby

I think that airfield training days are better than track days for learning your car. There is a lot more space and you can deliberately make the mistakes to understand what they feel like.

One I did recently we did a corner faster and faster until the car started to break away. That way you got a real feeling for the signs something was about to happen. It's amazing as well how when you spin 3 times in a row, the 4th time you are very relaxed, know what to expect and you can catch it quite easily.

What I have found with track days is that the mistakes happen quite suddenly and all you are worried about is any damage to the car. It is difficult to learn to much in a short time. Having said that if you do 3-4 track days I'm sure your car handling skills will go up a lot

Just my two cents worth

KSY

Thanks Barnaby, I agree that airfield days are better at first.

Any plans for these in Scotland?

Barnaby

Might be worth your while posting in the Scotland section.

There must be a few places that do airfield days or the equivalent

Anthonys_scooby

Excuse my ignorace, BUT what is the bumpsteer mod, I have seen this mentioned before and dont know what it is and why it is done?

I have a MY95 do I need to get it done and why?

Any information and/or explantion appreciated.

Anthony

KSY

Thanks Barnaby, searched scoobynet, found Crail airfield and good references about Andrew the instructor from 1stlotus.

Barnaby

1stLotus organised the track day I mentioned earlier.

Can't recommend them highly enough.

Anthony, as I understand it the bumpsteer mod is some changes to the front suspension layout. I think the idea was to stop understeering by making the geometry adjust the right way when the front end lifts under power.

Wilster at Work

Err, guys, read this version of the
thread in the general section

Or this

Bumpsteer and all should be revealed.....

Paul