Canuck

I'm looking to run a second set of wheels during the winter to save my better set of alloys, but also my 4ss since the F1's I'm running are not the best for snow and ice!

Can anyone (particularly my European and North American colleagues who should have plenty more experience of this than we do here in the tropics of England) recommend a reliable, good value set of tyres (tires) for the 0.5 cm of snow and ice we get here for 2 days each year? These need to be able to run well during the 90 days of rain and murk we have for the rest of what passes for winter in the British midlands.

Ta in advance for your help,

Canuck

zax

I'd just leave the car at home for those two days and save the cash But that's after me having just forked out 700+ euros for a set of Nokian winter tyres.

My F1s were appalling in the snow last week. But once it melted and everything was just wet they were in their element again...

AJbaseBloke

If you are looking for ice grip, the compound is gonna be pretty soft and that means the "high" bit of preformance is not gonna be there.

If mostly snow is your thing, Pirelli makes some pretty good tyres with fairly rigid tread, but their ice ability is limited.

I have Winter Ice Sports (squishy Q rated jobbies) and just accept that driving slow on them is the way to go. HTH

Canuck

I'm not looking for fast performance, just safety. I've driven for years in the Great White North (Canada) and know the rules. The F1's I've got are lethal; the Scoob puts out too much torque for them to be able to get anywhere, even with feathering the throttle and clutch in higher gears.
My "better" alloys will be ruined by the salt they use here at the first threat of low temperature (we used to call it T-shirt weather back when I was a kid in Canada) so I want to use the original 15-in wheels for the season. I might was well boot them up with something appropriate, the suggestions so far are helpful, anymore from you lot will be much appreciated not just by me but anyone else who searches on this topic (which seems to happen every year about the day after the first snowfall and seat-staining experience into the scenery!).

Thanks
Canuck

AJbaseBloke

OK - you been there done that...dunno what sizes are available in the UK, but Blizzaks are just about as good as it gets on ice, but they are squishy enough that tarmac can be a chore. Then there is a Michelin called Drice here, that I believe is called the Alpin in Europe - good on ice with enough rigidity built into the block design to keep things more stable on tarmac.

Apart from the Pirellis, those are the only winter studless tyres I am familiar with. HTH

Canuck

OK, thanks so far AJbasebloke, someone else mentioned the Blizzaks in an email but your observation about their use on tarmac sounds informed enuff to me to take heed.

I do want a good value tyre that can run on tarmac in the rain, but with a tread an block design that can handle snow and mud - my daily drive is through several miles of farming roads which is great fun but I do not want to end up wrapped around a tractor or a tree or with a horse on my bonnet or even in the scenery which in my case means up to the door sills in thick mud with bits of hedge sticking outa the air dams in the front wing.

I'll check out your suggestions with my local supplier to see what is available and will post what I find for future reference.

Meanwhile, if anyone else has wondered over to the Forum and has a view on this subject I'd be grateful for a reply.

Cheers
Keith

Canuck

Tried search today and found that there are useful linking threads:

One by ZAX and another from Caronte

Apart from those already mentioned above, recommendations so far from those other threads include:
Conti WinterContact TS790
Pirelli Snowsport 210 or IceSport
Nokian Hakapelita Q
Michelin Maxi-Ice

Bottom line here from my perspective it that I am still looking for value, and they don't have to be the best for fast road in the snow use, just good enough to get me through the winter and be able to take the speed and loading on tarmac that the Scoob can put out.

[Edited by Canuck cos I can't type - 11/6/2002 6:26:44 PM]

[Edited by Canuck - 11/6/2002 6:27:34 PM]

Canuck

I'm still looking, and hard-pressed to find what I want.
Seems that most of the UK lot (including the comrades up in Scotland who must face snow for more than the couple of days we soft southerners face) would prefer either to continue driving around with their F1's or Toyos (and must be either mad or better drivers than me - with 16 years Canadian winter driving experience I somehow doubt it ...) and face the total lack of control in the snow, or else leave the Scoob in the garage to prance around in their second car (I cannot afford one).

I have tried to get the Michelin Alpin series but apparently they are all H-rated and thus not suitable for the Scoob (maybe you can get an arrangement with your insurance compnay if you have a claim after a blow-out, but I doubt it).

Tanvic Tyres have been unable to find anything suitable apart from a recommended BF Goodrich tye, the Profiler G, which is apparenly used in the BTTC and so must be alright. Anyone care to offer some helpful advice or comments here? I can get them for £65/corner all in.

Cheers in advance,
Canuck

Drumtochty

From 1981 to 1998 I put winter tyres on my Golf GTI here in Aberdeenshire. They were good in bad weather but in the better weather they were less than wonderfull.

I got a Sport in 1998 and got a spare set of 15" wheels but never got around to putting winter tyres on.

I got a WRX in 2001 and a spare set of 17" wheels spring 2002. The problem is for insurance purposes you should get tyres that are recommended by the car maker. In my case 215 45 17. Due to the tiny number of winter tyres sold in the UK, you will be lucky to get a choice of say two makes in the UK. Further any test you read from the US will probably have a different model name of tyre than you can buy here.

So basically buy the cheapest you can get but do not push them at all in the better weather. I assume you will not stud them so do not push them at all in the bad weather.

You will not be able to tell any difference between makes. I could not on my Golf GTI.

I have not got round to buy a set for the WRX but we have a Jeep so unless the winter gets much worse I may not buy a set this year either.

Eddie

Canuck

Well, its that time of year again and I am still none the wiser how anyone here in the UK can be comfortable driving around with inappropriate tyres. Now that I've moved to the P1, booted up with Toyos Proxes, the issue is even greater (as revealed by the "spirited" driving experience I had this morning!). Under these slippery and freezing conditions these tyres are CR4P! Even a rally car boots up with tyres to match the conditions. This can't be such a strange thing for me to want to do (and I am not a cr4p driver, preferring instead to maximise the 365-day-a-year fantastic driving experience that Scooby ownership offers).

I have become very interested in a newer Goodyear tyre: Eagle UltraGrip GW-3, which comes in a range of decent sizes and sounds just the business to be fitted to my spare set of wheels to drive around from now until March. Goodyear UK do not supply them, cos incredibly most of you must either have a second car or use shanks pony to get around in winter conditions. Personally I can't afford the first option and can't be arsed to consider the second so ... is anyone in Europe aware of this tyre and where I might be able to buy it?

Canuck

stiler83

Try Vredestein WinTrac VXL http://www.vredestein.com/english/index.html

I have just got a set from
R N Golden Ltd
Wakefield Road
Lepton, Huddersfield
West Yorkshire
Tel: 01484 608060

for £74.95+vat each
205x55x16 V

Vredestein are regarded as one of if not the best.

A lot of people a rate the Nokian WR
http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/hl/nokian.htm

[Edited by stiler83 - 12/10/2003 5:53:25 PM]

[Edited by stiler83 - 12/10/2003 6:02:16 PM]

Canuck

stiler83 mate, how did you find out about these, and are you planning to use them as I want, as a "winter" tyre for a few months a year?

Canuck

Brit_in_Japan

Haven't tried them, but Falken launched a new a winter tyre in July which they say is for powerful vehicles and which is also good in wet weather. No idea if they are any good, maybe you can search for review of them.

Falken HS437

Press Release

[Edited by Brit_in_Japan - 12/11/2003 6:26:52 AM]

stiler83

Yes only to be used for a few months a year and a week or two in the alps. Having driven in Norway, Sweden and the alps many times in winter I know the benefits of winter tyres and dont know why anyone with cars like ours would take the risk of using summer tyres.
I have always fitted winter tyres to all my cars at this time of year. Have tried many makes of tyres and like the Vredestein going back many years to the old Snowstar.

[Edited by stiler83 - 12/11/2003 1:17:26 PM]

Brit_in_Japan

For the more technically minded, below is a link to a report on the performance of different tyres on snow/slush, ice and rough ice. It also compares performance when ABS is ON/OFF. No tyre makes are mentioned unfortunately, but the performance of new studless winter tyres is impressive. Worn summer tyres, scary

Interestingly the findings show that on snow, stopping performance on average is better with ABS ON!

Report


[Edited by Brit_in_Japan - 12/11/2003 1:55:36 PM]

Canuck

Arigato B-i-J,
My understanding of winter driving in Canada is that the ABS does offer a disadvantage in allowing a quick release of the brake to allow the tyre to roll over the furrow/bank of slippery stuff and so represent a threat!? Hmmm that being said, I can recall experiences in Canada where some rapid cadence braking did bring the car to a stop from an uncontrollable slide. Must think about that a bit cos many people advocate taking the fuse out of the ABS to inactivate during winter or during spirited mud driving.

I will look into the Falken story. At the moment I am unable to get the Goodyears into this country for at least 2 months (which defeats the purpose for 2003) and am awaiting a reply from a Vredestein supplier here in the East Midlands.

Canuck

Erik

Bridgestone LM-22 or Pirelli WinterSport. Michelin Pilot Alpin is only way how to be slow and make car heavy understeared.

Brit_in_Japan

Just bought some Michelin Drice at auction, v good price as they came on new alloys too

Will let you all know how I get on with them.

AJbaseBloke

Good stuff B-i-J.

I am on Pirelli Winter Ice Speorts again (second set for me), and find them good enough for me. They are harder than the Drice, and probably less effective on ice, but since I drive v. slow on skating rinks , hopefully I'll be OK.

Canuck - Have you found a tyre yet?

Canuck

Thanks to everyone for their suggestions and shared experience.

Am now running with the Vredestein Wintrac XL as recommended by Adam (Stiler83). According to him a lot of the hi end sportscar market use these in Europe, and the added benefit of the extra sidewall loading that these give offered distinct advantages for Scoobs in England, where we get only a few days of really serious winter weather. These tyres, therefore, appear to take quite a beating on damp, cold tarmac and are much better (ie more grip) under these conditions then the Toyos I am running on my "proper" set of rims. The barsteward of it is that so far I have yet to test 'em out under proper winter conditions. I am up for a long weekend in North Yorkshire in early March and hope to put 'em thru their paces then.

Bottom line is that I feel much better with the P1 booted up with these at this time of the year, even in this country and am simply astonished that so few people bother here in the UK. You wouldn't believe how difficult it is to get winter tyres here cos of the poor market!

The Law of Sod will dictate, however, now that I'm being careful and responsible some **** will run into me cos of excess speed, poor grip and bad judgement the first time we get half an inch of snow!!!

Maxim is: Proper rubber = 365-days-a-year fun !!

Canuck

stiler83

Glad I could be of help and am happy you like them. If found my new set took a little time to scrub in over the last set on my old Escort RS4x4 but they're good now.
I think you maybe in for a treat in a few days, look like quite a bit of snow could be comming.
Any way have fun and drive safely.

AJbaseBloke

Good stuff m8. Hope sods law doesn't get you!! Snow is predicted here on the weekend so I am already shivering at the thought... (thankfully lotsa peeps invest in winter rubber here tho)

My mate is running on PZero Nero M&S and finds them pretty good in terms of not getting too hard and giving up. But when it really gets bad, I bet my Winter Ice Sports will pay for themselves (They are Q rated and insurance companies would be burnt to the ground if they tried to not pay due to tyre ratings here!! Sounds like someone is taking the **** a bit...).

Good luck and have fun!

Brit_in_Japan

This weekend has seen the first real test of my Michelin Drice winter tyres, 300km run to the slopes and back.

Most distance covered on the expressways averaging 120+kmh. Felt good at that speed, stable, not squishy or squirmy. In fact for a motorway type journey I couldn't honestly detect any difference over standard summer tyres. Run from the expressway to the slopes was initally on polished ice, then on compacted/fresh snow. Ice was very slippery, ABS kicking in almost instantly if you were heavy footed. Remarkably good traction when accelerating and braking, noticeably better than standard summer tyres would have been. But the tyres came into their own the higher up the mountain I went. Fresh snow on top of compacted snow. Very sure footed, excellent grip, never any problem with going or stopping. You could break traction, but you had to really try to provoke it

All in all, very happy