Cannon Fodder

iTrader: (100)

After recently having my car remapped I am now looking for a suitable turbocharger upgrade for fitment in the next couple of months, I have a couple in mind and would like to know your thoughts/experiences of the following :

TD05 16g,18g or 20g (also are the Andy Forrest sourced ones different?)
VF34
VF39
MD321T or H (might be a little beyond my budget, but I could sell some organs in order to fund)

Or any other types that I have not included.

Also if Blue Dragoon could repost that turbocharger listing he provided a while back I would be grateful.

ryan33hks

iTrader: (2)

It was only a matter of time

Cannon Fodder

iTrader: (100)

I know I am now power hungry, but what will I do with the TD04 turbocharger then?

ryan33hks

iTrader: (2)

cellotape it to mine ?

Cannon Fodder

iTrader: (100)

Well I am sure you can find a way

wrx287

iTrader: (8)

Depends on what type of power your after Ty.

Cannon Fodder

iTrader: (100)

About 380ish bhp I think but I will also have to think about what other further modifications need to be carried out as well.

bluerigster

iTrader: (9)

I wouldn't run anything bigger than a TD05-20g on a standard engine and 5 speed box.

Cannon Fodder

iTrader: (100)

To be honest that is what I am leaning towards but just wanted some other members thoughts before I source one.

turboDean

iTrader: (4)

Vf34 won't make that much power, Md321t is way to big!
321h generally make 380-410
20g should do the job!
I've been looking at a HS380 (Harvey smith turbo) they seem to make 380-400 and spool quicker than the 20g and 321H

domino555

Get the TD05 evoIII big16g

The Stitcher

iTrader: (12)

18 or 20 g would be best for what your looking for but you should have done it before the map as your just throwing money away having it mapped again so soon also have you changed the fuel pump / injectors ? and you could benefit from an fpr too as all these will help the bhp and if not changed you will do sooner or later so do them all in one go and save money in the long run plus you will have more lag with bigger turbo so be prepared to change the way you drive your car
it's a slippery slope and once you start you can't stop fella

turboDean

iTrader: (4)

Probably break the gearbox quite easily at 380 aswell!!

The Stitcher

iTrader: (12)

yes you are right dean but it dose depend on how you drive it and condition of the box plus mileage

but your right standard gearbox will go after awhile one way or another

mervil

iTrader: (5)

Anymore than 350bhp on the std gearbox wont last too long IIRC. Apparently the TD05 20g works quite well with the 2.5!! It's quite laggy on my 2litre but have just adjusted my driving style slightly

turboDean

iTrader: (4)

A WRX would be more laggy than yours aswell, as STI's have AVCS heads which aid in turbo spool.

mervil

iTrader: (5)

That, I did not know

"Taylor"

iTrader: (2)

Agree with Merv, it's a little laggy on my 2litre, but it's great on Jarv's 2.5 and makes good top end power too. Make sure you upgrade to the version 8 Sti intercooler as well, can't remember if you've already done this? Have a little chat to Jarv regarding what Andy Forrest advised him with injectors and other bits and bobs, before you make your mind up. He may even give you a little test ride in his next meet, if you talk nice to him.

Cannon Fodder

iTrader: (100)

When I had the car remapped I spoke with Bob Rawle as to how far I can take the standard WRX driveline before problems occur and he reckoned that about 380bhp is ok providing you do not abuse the gearbox and clutch.

I have already upgraded with a v8 STi intercooler, Prodrive uprated fuel pump etc., I did wonder about the injectors but as I understand they are already 565cc (same injectors as the STi apparently) but I had been looking at a set of Spec C injectors which are 600cc but I am not sure they would make that much of a difference.

I should be seeing Jarvis on Sunday at the Swansea meet so I will try and have a chat with him then.

Cannon Fodder

iTrader: (100)

To be honest I am not looking for an immediate upgrade it will probably be by the end of summer.

I have changed the fuel pump for a Prodrive one but have not touched the injectors as the injectors are already 565cc although I have seen a set of spec C injectors which are 600cc but would they be a big improvement on the standard (which I believe are the same as the Hawkeye STi).

What are the benefits of a fuel pressure regulator? forgive my ignorance.

I have more or less decided on a TD05 20g as they are a 'straight' replacement with no modification required to the exhaust system as well.

I am on the slippery slope now but at least I am not on that damn rollercoaster that everybody keeps talking about...

Lag you say, well its funny you should mention that - how about a supercharger on a magnetic clutch which disengages when the revs are high enough.

"Taylor"

iTrader: (2)

When the injectors are rated ie 440/550 this is their flow rate at standard fuel pressure. So say for example the injector opens for half a second that is how much fuel it will flow. If you turn the fuel pressure up to the fuel feed rails, when the injector opens for the same half a second more fuel will flow due to the higher pressure. So basically you just get more from your current injectors. Another advantage i suppose is that it gives the mapper better control over the injectors as he has more control over the fueling, allowing him to do a little fine tuning.
With regards to which injectors to choose, i'd speak to the mapper as he knows which he will get better results with when he maps, if you ask on here you'll probably get loads of different answers.

Cannon Fodder

iTrader: (100)

I now understand, it does the same job as a FPR on a common rail diesel engine, thanks for the explanation Taylor.

KJD Mk1

iTrader: (3)

Get in , sit down and hold on very tight

turboDean

iTrader: (4)

StiX

iTrader: (4)

Well according to AndyForrestPerformance

550 injectors are good for upto 440bhp - so yours should be fine

Nolan_WRX

iTrader: (3)

The 06 2.5 injectors are only 505cc if i remember. and they are a light blue colour, i thought they were 550cc thats why i bought them.

When i had mine mapped with these in the mapper told me they werent flowing like 550cc ones, after a while he found a base map for 505cc injectors which worked much better he said.

"Taylor"

iTrader: (2)

As above, the Hawkeye 2.5 wrx has 505 injectors, not 550's. Jarv runs an FPR on his. Not sure what his injector duty is running at though.

The Trooper 1815

iTrader: (31)

https://www.scoobynet.com/private-sa...58-md321t.html

The Trooper 1815

iTrader: (31)

Sorry Ty, nearly forgot

VF22
This turbo has the highest output potential of all of the IHI VF series turbos and is the best choice for those who are looking for loads of top end power. The top end power however, does not come without a cost. The VF22 spools significantly slower than the rest of the IHI models due to the larger P20 exhaust housing and is much less suited for daily driving than some of the other models. Although the largest VF series turbo, the VF22 is not quite optimal for stroked engines or those who wish to run more than 20PSI of boost.

VF23
This turbo is considered a great all-around turbo. Like the VF22 it utilizes the largest P20 exhaust housing. This housing is mated with a smaller compressor housing of the of the VF24. This turbo is considered optimal in applications with range from mild to slightly wild. It does not have the same top end power of the VF22, but spools up significantly quicker.

VF24
This turbo shares its compressor housing with the VF23 however, this housing is mated with a smaller (P18) exhaust side. The smaller characteristics of this turbo allow it to provide ample bottom end power and quick spool. This turbo is very popular for Imprezas with automatic transmissions and Group N rally cars.

VF28
This turbo came standard on the STi Version 5. In terms of overall size, it is smaller than the VF22, VF30 and VF34, and about same size as the VF23.

VF29
This Turbo is nearly identical to the VF24, with the same compressor and exhaust housings. However the compressor wheel in the VF29 is has been changed slightly. The changes made to the compressor wheel in this model are generally viewed as improvements, and as such this unit is typically chosen over the VF24.

VF30
The VF30 is commonly considered the best bang for the buck turbo in the IHI VF series line. A relatively new model the VF30 features the same exhaust housing as the VF24 but a larger compressor side similar to the VF22. The combination of these two parts results in increased output potential without the lag associated with the VF22. Although it doesn't offer the top end supremacy of the VF22, the VF30 is a great compromise between these unit and the quicker spooling models.

VF34
The VF34 is nearly identical to the VF30, with the same exhaust housing and compressor. However the VF34 goes back to the ball bearing design, and in doing so achieves full boost approximately 500RPM sooner than the comparable VF30. The VF34 is the most recent IHI design and as such costs slightly more than its counterpart. Top end performance and maximum output are identical to the 30.

VF35
The VF35 has identical internals as the VF30 and it uses divided thrust bearings. However, the exhaust housing is a P15 which means this turbo will have fantastic spool characteristics. This turbo is standard on the new WRX Type RA. LIMITED SUPPLY.

VF36
Roller bearing version of the twin scroll VF37, also has a titanium turbine and shaft for even quicker spool. Same compressor housing as VF30/34, however twin scroll P25 exhaust housing provides slightly better top end output due to reduced exhaust pulse interference. This turbo is good for 400HP and used on JDM STI Spec C from 2003 onwards.

VF37 (thrust bearing)
Enter the age of twin scroll IHI turbos. Same compressor housing as VF30/34, however has a new twin scroll P25 exhaust housing that provides slightly better top end output due to reduced exhaust pulse interference. Twin scroll also provides better spool up for improved low down response over the VF30/34. This turbo is good for 400HP and used on JDM STI from 2003 onwards.

VF38
Twin scroll turbo with titanium turbine and shaft. Smaller compressor housing than VF36/VF37 provides tremendous spool up capabilities but less top end than VF36/37. The spool capabilities of this turbo are demonstrated on the JDM Legacy GT, which reaches peak torque at 2400RPM.

VF39
Single scroll turbo used on USDM STI and latest 2.5L STIs released internationally. Smaller than VF30/VF34.

VF42
Exclusive turbo to the S203/S204 models, this features a twin scroll design with a slightly larger compressor than the VF36/37 turbos and different turbine design (more blades). The VF42 is a roller-bearing turbo and is likely of similar size to the VF22 turbo, but with twin scroll exhaust housing for faster spool and superior top end performance due to reduced exhaust pulse interference.

PE 1818 The 1818 supposedly comes on boost extremely fast...which make it great for road racing or aggressive driving (remember to be responsible :^). The 1818 maxes out somewhere between 350-375 hp.

PE 1820 The 1820 is larger than the 1818 and is capable of running more boost, but at the expense of more turbo lag. Expect it not attain full boost until you have passed 4000 rpm. However, it can be tuned to 400+ hp.



IHI & Garret Turbo Specs
Model Type Compressor Inlet Diameter Compressor Housing Nominal Turbine Housing Turbine Approx A/R Compressor Wheel Blades Turbine Wheel Blades Waste Gate Actuator Turbine Casting ID & Batch
VF22 Roller Bearing 48.5 A 9.4 PZ20-H 94001 0.71 5 11 C395 H, H4
VF 23 Roller Bearing 46.7 B 9.4 PZ20-H 94001 0.71 6 11 C395 8psi TBA
VF 24 Roller Bearing 46.7 B 9.4 PZ18-H 94001 0.63 6 11 C418 8psi H, S4, 66
VF 30 Bronze Bearing 47.9 C 9.4 PZ18-H 94001 0.63 6 11 C484 H, S4, IC F55
VF 34 Roller Bearing

Garrett 400 Ball Bearing 53 - - Outlet Dia 51.5 - 7 9 11 psi
Garrett 450-500 Ball Bearing 53 Outlet Dia 46.9 - 7 10 14 psi




Turbo Type ----------- Approx flow @ pressure
Stock Turbo ---------- 360 CFM at 14.7 PSI
IHI VF 25 ------------- 370 CFM at 14.7 PSI
IHI VF 26 ------------- 390 CFM at 14.7 PSI
T3 60 trim ----------- 400 CFM at 14.7 PSI
IHI VF 27 ------------- 400 CFM at 14.7 PSI
IHI VF 24/28/29 ----- 410 CFM at 14.7 PSI
========= 422 CFM max flow for a 2 Liter at .85 VE pressure ratio 2.0 (14.7 PSI) 7000 RPM =======
IHI VF 23 ------------- 423 CFM at 14.7 PSI
FP STOCK HYBRID -- 430 CFM at 14.7 PSI
IHI VF-30 ------------- 435 CFM at 14.7 PSI
SR 30 ----------------- 435 CFM at 14.7 PSI
IHI VF-22 ------------ 440 CFM at 14.7 PSI
T04E 40 trim -------- 460 CFM at 14.7 PSI
========= 464 CFM max flow for a 2.2 Liter at .85 VE pressure ratio 2.0 (14.7 PSI) 7000 rpm =======
PE1818 -------------- 490 CFM at 14.7 PSI
Small 16G ------------ 505 CFM at 14.7 PSI
ION Spec (stg 0) --- 525 CFM at 14.7 PSI
========= 526 CFM max flow for a 2.5 Liter at .85 VE pressure ratio 2.0 (14.7 PSI) 7000 RPM =======
Large 16G ----------- 550 CFM at 14.7 PSI
SR 40 ----------------- 595 CFM at 14.7 PSI
18G ------------------- 600 CFM at 14.7 PSI
PE 1820 -------------- 630 CFM at 14.7 PSI
20G ------------------ 650 CFM at 14.7 PSI
SR 50 ---------------- 710 CFM at 14.7 PSI
GT-30 ---------------- 725 CFM at 14.7 PSI
60-1 ----------------- 725 CFM at 14.7 PSI
GT-35R -------------- 820 CFM at 14.7 PSI
T72 ------------------ 920 CFM at 14.7 PSI <--- Note you would have to spin a 2.0 L engine at about 14,000 rpm to flow this much air.
IHI VF 25 ----------- 395 CFM at 18 PSI
IHI VF 26 ----------- 400 CFM at 18 PSI
T3 60 trim ---------- 410 CFM at 20 PSI
IHI VF 27 ----------- 420 CFM at 18 PSI
IHI VF 24/28/29 -- 425 CFM at 18 PSI
IHI VF 23 ----------- 430 CFM at 18 PSI
IHI VF-30 ----------- 460 CFM at 18.0 PSI
AVO 320HP -------- 465 CFM at 17.5 PSI
T04E 40 trim ------ 465 CFM at 22 PSI
FP STOCK HYBRID- 490 CFM at 18.0 PSI
IHI VF-22 ---------- 490 CFM at 18.0 PSI
SR 30 --------------- 490 CFM at 22 PSI
Small 16G ---------- 490 CFM at 22 PSI
ION Spec (stg 0) - 500 CFM at 19 PSI
PE1818 ------------ 515 CFM at 22 PSI
Large 16G --------- 520 CFM at 22 PSI
========= 526 CFM max flow for a 2 Liter at .85 VE pressure ratio 2.5 (22 PSI) 7000 rpm =======
========= 578 CFM max flow for a 2.2 Liter at .85 VE pressure ratio 2.5 (22 PSI) 7000 rpm =======
HKS GT2835 ------- 580 CFM at 22 PSI 400 hp
MRT 400 ------------ 580 CFM at 16 PSI
AVO 400HP -------- 580 CFM at 17.5 PSI
MRT 450 ------------ 650 CFM at 19 PSI
AVO 450HP -------- 650 CFM at 20.0 PSI
SR 40 ---------------- 650 CFM at 22 PSI
========= 658 CFM max flow for a 2.5 Liter at .85 VE pressure ratio 2.5 (22 PSI) 7000 rpm =======
HKS GT3037 ------ 670 CFM at 22 PSI 460 hp
PE 1820 ----------- 680 CFM at 22 PSI
20G ---------------- 695 CFM at 20.0 PSI
HKS GT3040 ----- 710 CFM at 22 PSI 490 hp
AVO 500HP ------ 770 CFM at 22 PSI
SR 50 ------------- 770 CFM at 22 PSI
GT-30 ------------- 790 CFM at 22 PSI
60-1 --------------- 800 CFM at 22 PSI
HKS GT3240 ----- 830 CFM at 22 PSI 570 hp
GT-35R ----------- 880 CFM at 22 PSI
T72 --------------- 1000 CFM at 22 PSI <--- note you would have to run a 2.0 L engine at >40 PSI boost to flow this much air
Conversions used where there was control over conversion factors:
1 HP approx equals 1.45 CFM
1 CFM approx equals 0.0745 lb of air/min
0.108 Lb/min approx equals 1 hp
1 Meter cubed/sec = 35.314 CFS = 2118.867 CFM
1 KG/sec = 132 lbs/min approx equals 1771.812 CFM
power coversions:
1 PS = 0.9859 HP = 75 Kgf m/sec
1.3405 HP = 1 KW
1 HP = 746 watts

Cannon Fodder

iTrader: (100)

Thanks Ian you are a invaluable source of information