***NEW** EBC Orangestuff Pads - Final formulation now for general release
11 May 2012, 01:05 PM
#1
***NEW** EBC Orangestuff Pads - Final formulation now for general release
Been looking forward to these for some time. After some testing, feedback and some tweaks the compound has been finalised and now officially released. Same pricing as EBC Bluestuff NDX (i.e. VERY well priced). Some blurb from the EBC Site:
FINAL FORMULATION – EBC ORANGESTUFF
After a few decent tweaks over the winter the EBC lab have come up with mods and improvements to take the Orange formulation to the next level. These improvements include:
1) Longer wear life by 40-60%
2) Better initial Bite
3) Better fade resistance at disc temps where rotor was glowing red.
We are now making a launch of this material as in 90% of applications this material will do what it says on the tin. Users are reminded to follow the bed in instructions below which are unchanged and to realise this is a harder longer lasting material, the hardest in the EBC Brakes range and needs proper bedding to decent and flat discs.
Final “Lapsim” formulation curve of the latest material which is called DM2323 is shown below. There are THREE curves below.
1) The top curve has blue lines which are the friction level with the stop number shown at the bottom during the BEDDING process which is 25 stops. The RED lines on this curve are disc temperature AT THE START (NOT FINISH) OF THE BRAKE CYCLE.
2) The Middle curve is the first Lap simulation race test, again blue lines are friction and red are disc temp. This simulates a 10 lap race at brake effect of 0.7G. We also then ran this same test at 1.0G decels and those results are shown in Lapsim 2.
3) The lower curve on Lapsim 2 IS THE TOUGHEST test we can really do on a dyno, simulates massive brake energy and discs glowing bright orange through the brake cycle, highly doubtful any driver would race to these temps but the pads still held on to a very decent level of friction. IMPORTANT to note that on this second test the COOLING WAS HALVED, simulating a poorly vented brake system that can occur on street based cars without improved ducting. The disc temps shot up to over 1000C here at the end of the stops and the friction dropped but there was still a decent brake effect as shown below. This is an unusual test to do and not realistic but this was a test to the very limits and Orangestuff survived.
We also doubt if any manufacturer would ever a) RUN or b) DARE to publish such results but there you go.
Notice how BED IN is important with harder pads (even scorched ones) like these and that it takes geometrical bedding then 15-20 hard stops for the pads to come up to their nominal friction.
The picture below shows how the pads looked after the test - no surface cracking or pit marks, no edge crumbling or delamination, and perfectly smooth pad surface. Production versions will have V-grooves instead of slots.
PRODUCT INFORMATION
Deep V-grooves help venting and catch dirt, dust and debris. Notice the open granular surface texture after the heat scorch (pre-bedding) process.
SPECIFICATIONS
Friction level - 0.5 rising to 0.6 under load
Material base - semi-metallic
Target use - closed circuit racing only
R90 Approval - Will not be tested to R90
New EBC Brakes Orangestuff race brake pads pass gruelling dyno testing and pass with flying colours.
The pictures below show the condition of both the Orange pads and discs after a massively tough test to their wear limits at temperatures exceeding 1000C
(1800 F)
The pads got so hot the paint was blistered off the backing plates totally yet the Orangestuff pads still worked well. There was no cracking or edge crumbling and at the end of the test the discs look in remarkably good condition.
During the test the discs glowed Orange under the decel forces of 1.0G and the friction (obviously) was reduced but there was still a decent brake effect.
The cooling delays were reduced to further worsen the test case scenario.
There is no car on this planet that would put brakes though a more severe test.
PADS AFTER SEVERE TEST
Discs after severe test
Following on from the huge success of the new EBC Bluestuff NDX range, customer demand has indicated the need for a more aggressive full race material for track only use that is not required to bring a vehicle to rest (which Bluestuff NDX was specifically designed to do) and this has led to the development of the orange grade material. The material will be dusty and slightly more aggressive on brake rotors (such as EBC Blade Brake Disc rotors) which is the trade off when using a full race pad and cannot be avoided.
The reviews coming on these are very good. Great step up from EBC Bluestuff NDX at no extra cost.
Prices (same as Bluestuff NDX)
In stock and ready for next day delivery. We are offering FREE DELIVERY on these. Give us a call to order your set
FINAL FORMULATION – EBC ORANGESTUFF
After a few decent tweaks over the winter the EBC lab have come up with mods and improvements to take the Orange formulation to the next level. These improvements include:
1) Longer wear life by 40-60%
2) Better initial Bite
3) Better fade resistance at disc temps where rotor was glowing red.
We are now making a launch of this material as in 90% of applications this material will do what it says on the tin. Users are reminded to follow the bed in instructions below which are unchanged and to realise this is a harder longer lasting material, the hardest in the EBC Brakes range and needs proper bedding to decent and flat discs.
Final “Lapsim” formulation curve of the latest material which is called DM2323 is shown below. There are THREE curves below.
1) The top curve has blue lines which are the friction level with the stop number shown at the bottom during the BEDDING process which is 25 stops. The RED lines on this curve are disc temperature AT THE START (NOT FINISH) OF THE BRAKE CYCLE.
2) The Middle curve is the first Lap simulation race test, again blue lines are friction and red are disc temp. This simulates a 10 lap race at brake effect of 0.7G. We also then ran this same test at 1.0G decels and those results are shown in Lapsim 2.
3) The lower curve on Lapsim 2 IS THE TOUGHEST test we can really do on a dyno, simulates massive brake energy and discs glowing bright orange through the brake cycle, highly doubtful any driver would race to these temps but the pads still held on to a very decent level of friction. IMPORTANT to note that on this second test the COOLING WAS HALVED, simulating a poorly vented brake system that can occur on street based cars without improved ducting. The disc temps shot up to over 1000C here at the end of the stops and the friction dropped but there was still a decent brake effect as shown below. This is an unusual test to do and not realistic but this was a test to the very limits and Orangestuff survived.
We also doubt if any manufacturer would ever a) RUN or b) DARE to publish such results but there you go.
Notice how BED IN is important with harder pads (even scorched ones) like these and that it takes geometrical bedding then 15-20 hard stops for the pads to come up to their nominal friction.
The picture below shows how the pads looked after the test - no surface cracking or pit marks, no edge crumbling or delamination, and perfectly smooth pad surface. Production versions will have V-grooves instead of slots.
PRODUCT INFORMATION
Deep V-grooves help venting and catch dirt, dust and debris. Notice the open granular surface texture after the heat scorch (pre-bedding) process.
SPECIFICATIONS
Friction level - 0.5 rising to 0.6 under load
Material base - semi-metallic
Target use - closed circuit racing only
R90 Approval - Will not be tested to R90
New EBC Brakes Orangestuff race brake pads pass gruelling dyno testing and pass with flying colours.
The pictures below show the condition of both the Orange pads and discs after a massively tough test to their wear limits at temperatures exceeding 1000C
(1800 F)
The pads got so hot the paint was blistered off the backing plates totally yet the Orangestuff pads still worked well. There was no cracking or edge crumbling and at the end of the test the discs look in remarkably good condition.
During the test the discs glowed Orange under the decel forces of 1.0G and the friction (obviously) was reduced but there was still a decent brake effect.
The cooling delays were reduced to further worsen the test case scenario.
There is no car on this planet that would put brakes though a more severe test.
PADS AFTER SEVERE TEST
Discs after severe test
Following on from the huge success of the new EBC Bluestuff NDX range, customer demand has indicated the need for a more aggressive full race material for track only use that is not required to bring a vehicle to rest (which Bluestuff NDX was specifically designed to do) and this has led to the development of the orange grade material. The material will be dusty and slightly more aggressive on brake rotors (such as EBC Blade Brake Disc rotors) which is the trade off when using a full race pad and cannot be avoided.
The reviews coming on these are very good. Great step up from EBC Bluestuff NDX at no extra cost.
Prices (same as Bluestuff NDX)
- New EBC Orangestuff STi Brembo Front = £154.44
- New EBC Orangestuff STi Brembo Rear = £85.22
- New EBC Orangestuff Subaru 4 Pot Front = £148.26
- Other fitments also available.
In stock and ready for next day delivery. We are offering FREE DELIVERY on these. Give us a call to order your set
15 May 2012, 05:19 PM
#3
Yes, very good pads indeed.
Some reviews:
Some reviews:
GUM EVO writes on the Lancer Register (extract)
“During run in period I noticed cold bite was superb and there was no noises much to my surprise Anyway Saturday morning came and the sprint at Snetterton began… anyone who attended would vouch the braking needed at the finish line was a test for any ones brake setup! I was crossing the line at about 120 on the limiter in 4th gear then stamping on the brakes to stop in what was a very short distance to exit the circuit. The orangestuff pads offered me astonishing cold bite and immense stopping power whilst never fading ….
Overall the pads have been used for one sprint and two days of running in… so far proving to be one of the best pads I have ever used along side the xp10’s……
The main advantage for me so far is these Orangestuff pads should be priced very closely or the same as NDX blues which makes them the bargain of the century.
Please regardless of how easy it is to accuse, believe me when I say this is a total independent test from an enthusiast and unbiased in anyway. I have used many brake pads in my time ranging from: XP8, XP10, NDX blue, Orangestuff, Endless, PF.11, DS2500 etc etc and have just given an honest opinion and will continue to do so throughout the life span of these pads. I have no raw data or substantial evidence to prove these pads to be better than any other as I have no test equipment but take the review as you please J
Just to add I came 1st place in my class at Snetterton during the MLRSS and have secured the class A 2011 win.
STEVIE 76 writes on GTROC Forum
“I have to say i was really impressed with the Orange Stuff which easily managed to slow the car up from an indicated 200mph on the clock with no fade noticed at all. I am quite happy to say that these pads really do seem to work very well and have a good enough bite, after a couple of pedal applications, to inspire confidence in them. The initial bite is no worse than stock pads but you really do notice the difference when they get hot.”
“During run in period I noticed cold bite was superb and there was no noises much to my surprise Anyway Saturday morning came and the sprint at Snetterton began… anyone who attended would vouch the braking needed at the finish line was a test for any ones brake setup! I was crossing the line at about 120 on the limiter in 4th gear then stamping on the brakes to stop in what was a very short distance to exit the circuit. The orangestuff pads offered me astonishing cold bite and immense stopping power whilst never fading ….
Overall the pads have been used for one sprint and two days of running in… so far proving to be one of the best pads I have ever used along side the xp10’s……
The main advantage for me so far is these Orangestuff pads should be priced very closely or the same as NDX blues which makes them the bargain of the century.
Please regardless of how easy it is to accuse, believe me when I say this is a total independent test from an enthusiast and unbiased in anyway. I have used many brake pads in my time ranging from: XP8, XP10, NDX blue, Orangestuff, Endless, PF.11, DS2500 etc etc and have just given an honest opinion and will continue to do so throughout the life span of these pads. I have no raw data or substantial evidence to prove these pads to be better than any other as I have no test equipment but take the review as you please J
Just to add I came 1st place in my class at Snetterton during the MLRSS and have secured the class A 2011 win.
STEVIE 76 writes on GTROC Forum
“I have to say i was really impressed with the Orange Stuff which easily managed to slow the car up from an indicated 200mph on the clock with no fade noticed at all. I am quite happy to say that these pads really do seem to work very well and have a good enough bite, after a couple of pedal applications, to inspire confidence in them. The initial bite is no worse than stock pads but you really do notice the difference when they get hot.”
21 May 2012, 04:03 PM
#4
Would these stop brake fade then, because I went on a hard run on weekend and running ndx blues after a while of hard driving driving downhill on twisty rds my brakes got fade were the pads wasn't working as good as they should, stopped and let them cool down a bit and they stunk!. Thinking of putting my ds2500s back on for hard drives but would they last any longer without fade?
Im thinking of trying these orange stuff when replacing, but don't want brake fade.
Regards
P.s running 5.1 and grooved discs 335
Im thinking of trying these orange stuff when replacing, but don't want brake fade.
Regards
P.s running 5.1 and grooved discs 335
Last edited by bustaMOVEs; 21 May 2012 at 04:05 PM.
21 May 2012, 04:58 PM
#5
These are a nice big step up from the Bluestuff NDX.
I had been on the verge of trying something else as I currently run XP10's front and XP8 rear on standard Brembo calipers, although I have replaced the OEM brakes lines with Goodridge braided, have single piece grooved Godspeed front and OEM (camskill) rear disc which are all around one year old. Reason for change - I just have had enough of the brake squeal as most of my driving is in town and I obviously am not getting the XP's in their right zone to work without noise. Don't get me wrong - they are fantastic stoppers but the noise is just too much
and I wanted something that will stop well but be quiet
Bit about my driving as this will obviously affect the way the brakes perform and I will just be giving my opinion and findings that apply to me. I don't and will not be tracking my car - suffice to say that it will be restricted to fast road use only and also plodding in town as I live in London - too many road humps and speed cameras to enjoy much. However - I do know how to drive quickly as I drove fire engines and fire cars for a living for over thirty years and have undertaken many EFAD (Emergency Fire Appliance Driver) courses - still love fast road driving in the country where it is safe
.
Car is an EVO 6 GSR (stage 1'd) running around 370 bhp on Tein Basic coilovers with 18 x 9 Rota's and well set up. I have tried CeraTec with the XP's and that worked for couple of days but then the squeal always returned - squeal was so bad that it was noisy even on hard braking when pushing it so time to try for a solution
Out of the box the orangestuff are quite differant to the XP (see picture) - where two centre grooves are very wide and chamfered and all edges are also finished at an angle. Looking at the two pads it would appear that there is more contact surface area as a result on the XP pad and similarly the XP is thicker (by about 1 - 2mm) so it should last longer if the wear rate is the same (don't know that it will be)
Looked at EBC site (following advice from Ian) and made sure that I used some abrasive on the discs to remove the carbon deposits that will have been transferred to the disc by the XP pads. Fitted the pads into Brembo's and made sure that I used Ceratec, thoroughly cleaned the shims and checked that they were the right way round (arrows pointing with direction of wheel travel). Also had new Silkolene Race brake fluid last week when MOT was done so know that system wil be operating as designed.
PERFORMANCE
So how have they performed - only done about 150 miles so far but initial impressions are very positive most noticeably SILENT - oh joy
The initial bite is NOT ANYWHERE near as harsh, or strong as the XP's so people tracking may need to take account of this - but I must say that to me the pedal feel is better as it seems more progressive and you can feel the brake take up more easily rather than off or on with XP. Bite is improving all the time as they bed in and they do feel miles better than the DS2500 I had previously. If you need to stop quick they are very strong (even after only a few miles) and I felt very "at home" with the pedal feel as my drive progressed. No vibration at all through steering wheel as braking progresses so it would appear pads are biting evenly.
Will give more feedback in a couple of weeks as I have had the chance to do more miles and push a bit harder (very early drive calling for quiet roads) but for fast road use and quiet these seem like they could be the solution for me - well pleased with initial feel.
Can't comment specifically about track use as I know that is a very differant type of drive - but that shouldn't be too differant from driving fire engines in London where you are pushing (particularly through red lights) and don't always know what other people will be doing - I do feel very confident already with their stopping performance and confidence is sooo important when driving to the limit ??
Initial view - Am really liking these
I had been on the verge of trying something else as I currently run XP10's front and XP8 rear on standard Brembo calipers, although I have replaced the OEM brakes lines with Goodridge braided, have single piece grooved Godspeed front and OEM (camskill) rear disc which are all around one year old. Reason for change - I just have had enough of the brake squeal as most of my driving is in town and I obviously am not getting the XP's in their right zone to work without noise. Don't get me wrong - they are fantastic stoppers but the noise is just too much
and I wanted something that will stop well but be quiet Bit about my driving as this will obviously affect the way the brakes perform and I will just be giving my opinion and findings that apply to me. I don't and will not be tracking my car - suffice to say that it will be restricted to fast road use only and also plodding in town as I live in London - too many road humps and speed cameras to enjoy much. However - I do know how to drive quickly as I drove fire engines and fire cars for a living for over thirty years and have undertaken many EFAD (Emergency Fire Appliance Driver) courses - still love fast road driving in the country where it is safe
.Car is an EVO 6 GSR (stage 1'd) running around 370 bhp on Tein Basic coilovers with 18 x 9 Rota's and well set up. I have tried CeraTec with the XP's and that worked for couple of days but then the squeal always returned - squeal was so bad that it was noisy even on hard braking when pushing it so time to try for a solution
Out of the box the orangestuff are quite differant to the XP (see picture) - where two centre grooves are very wide and chamfered and all edges are also finished at an angle. Looking at the two pads it would appear that there is more contact surface area as a result on the XP pad and similarly the XP is thicker (by about 1 - 2mm) so it should last longer if the wear rate is the same (don't know that it will be)
Looked at EBC site (following advice from Ian) and made sure that I used some abrasive on the discs to remove the carbon deposits that will have been transferred to the disc by the XP pads. Fitted the pads into Brembo's and made sure that I used Ceratec, thoroughly cleaned the shims and checked that they were the right way round (arrows pointing with direction of wheel travel). Also had new Silkolene Race brake fluid last week when MOT was done so know that system wil be operating as designed.
PERFORMANCE
So how have they performed - only done about 150 miles so far but initial impressions are very positive most noticeably SILENT - oh joy
The initial bite is NOT ANYWHERE near as harsh, or strong as the XP's so people tracking may need to take account of this - but I must say that to me the pedal feel is better as it seems more progressive and you can feel the brake take up more easily rather than off or on with XP. Bite is improving all the time as they bed in and they do feel miles better than the DS2500 I had previously. If you need to stop quick they are very strong (even after only a few miles) and I felt very "at home" with the pedal feel as my drive progressed. No vibration at all through steering wheel as braking progresses so it would appear pads are biting evenly.
Will give more feedback in a couple of weeks as I have had the chance to do more miles and push a bit harder (very early drive calling for quiet roads) but for fast road use and quiet these seem like they could be the solution for me - well pleased with initial feel.
Can't comment specifically about track use as I know that is a very differant type of drive - but that shouldn't be too differant from driving fire engines in London where you are pushing (particularly through red lights) and don't always know what other people will be doing - I do feel very confident already with their stopping performance and confidence is sooo important when driving to the limit ??
Initial view - Am really liking these
21 May 2012, 05:00 PM
#6
Another review:
About time to add my thoughts as well....
Changed my front pads from the pre-release Orange to the final compound around 2 weeks ago. I already liked the pre-release compound, so as long as the final version was at least as good they would still get a good thumbs :smthumbup up from me.
The pads are now well and truly bedded in, and I've driven nearly over 600 miles on them so far.
Initial bite
Strong-ish bite from cold without being snatchy, and no real perceptible change in bite whether hot or cold.
Pedal Modulation
Orangestuff reacts really well to small changes in pedal pressure After taking up the initial bite you can press quite hard on the pedal to increase braking force in quite a linear fashion. The good thing, though is that you don't have to press the pedal with monster force to get the best out of these pads - which is good for heel'n'toe braking.
Consistency
Thought I'd give this a good test (since I found the blue NDX compound suffered from "inconsistency"...)
Test 1 On my route to-and-from work I have made sure that I approach specific tight bends from the same speed and brake (hard) at the same point, day after day, which is a transverse join in the tarmac which is slightly raised. Every morning the brakes feel the same and brake down to the same speed in the same distance.
Test 2 My route back from work gives an ideal chance to test pedal consistency on a slightly downhill and slightly curved approach to a Give Way. I concentrated hard on keeping the pedal pressure the same and noted how the car slowed down. At normal road speeds the same consistent pressure resulted in a very linear deceleration, which is important for assessing stopping distance. Clearly, from slightly faster speeds the deceleration rate is slowed a little, but this is only to be expected (energy is related to speed squared after all).
Overall Performance
General hooning around and heavy braking for extended periods doesn't seem to affect braking performance (which is more than can be said from what I found of the Blue NDX!). I rate the Orangestuff very highly indeed
Live-ability
Other really important factors are the complete absence of any squealing issues whatsoever along with minimal brake dust issues - both high on my list of priorities - but not at the expense of good braking. The Orangestuff scores highly on all 3 counts.
Changed my front pads from the pre-release Orange to the final compound around 2 weeks ago. I already liked the pre-release compound, so as long as the final version was at least as good they would still get a good thumbs :smthumbup up from me.
The pads are now well and truly bedded in, and I've driven nearly over 600 miles on them so far.
Initial bite
Strong-ish bite from cold without being snatchy, and no real perceptible change in bite whether hot or cold.
Pedal Modulation
Orangestuff reacts really well to small changes in pedal pressure After taking up the initial bite you can press quite hard on the pedal to increase braking force in quite a linear fashion. The good thing, though is that you don't have to press the pedal with monster force to get the best out of these pads - which is good for heel'n'toe braking.
Consistency
Thought I'd give this a good test (since I found the blue NDX compound suffered from "inconsistency"...)
Test 1 On my route to-and-from work I have made sure that I approach specific tight bends from the same speed and brake (hard) at the same point, day after day, which is a transverse join in the tarmac which is slightly raised. Every morning the brakes feel the same and brake down to the same speed in the same distance.
Test 2 My route back from work gives an ideal chance to test pedal consistency on a slightly downhill and slightly curved approach to a Give Way. I concentrated hard on keeping the pedal pressure the same and noted how the car slowed down. At normal road speeds the same consistent pressure resulted in a very linear deceleration, which is important for assessing stopping distance. Clearly, from slightly faster speeds the deceleration rate is slowed a little, but this is only to be expected (energy is related to speed squared after all).
Overall Performance
General hooning around and heavy braking for extended periods doesn't seem to affect braking performance (which is more than can be said from what I found of the Blue NDX!). I rate the Orangestuff very highly indeed
Live-ability
Other really important factors are the complete absence of any squealing issues whatsoever along with minimal brake dust issues - both high on my list of priorities - but not at the expense of good braking. The Orangestuff scores highly on all 3 counts.
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22 May 2012, 04:53 PM
#12
Heat management is the main issue. One of the reasons these pads were designed was due to calipers such as yours which are generally inadequate for track use and were overheating the NDX compound which was performing well in decent caliper setups such as the K-Sport Time Attack Pro Impreza and our car which has 6 Pot monoblock calipers with 350mm discs. This new Orangestuff is meant to overcome that issue, and judging by the reviews it has done so.
Are you using some weird Jaguar pads that overhang on your caliper or the original Subaru 4 Pot Pad shape?
Are you using some weird Jaguar pads that overhang on your caliper or the original Subaru 4 Pot Pad shape?
12 July 2012, 10:52 PM
#19
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Hi guys just wanted to check as I'm getting different answers everywhere, are the EBC orangestuff pads road legal? as i'm looking for a pad that can handle spirited road use and the odd track day and they seem to fit the bill.
12 July 2012, 11:18 PM
#20
It depends on how you define road legal. Many of the track worthy pads are not R90 approved. Not that this effects anything in the real world as the Orangestuff for well from cold.
If R90 is a priority for you for any reason, then you will need to step down a compound and use something like the Bluestuff NDX, which is the same price.
I will be able to explain it better over the telephone if you fancy a chat. Tel 01462 600241
If R90 is a priority for you for any reason, then you will need to step down a compound and use something like the Bluestuff NDX, which is the same price.
I will be able to explain it better over the telephone if you fancy a chat. Tel 01462 600241
03 August 2012, 11:03 AM
#21
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[QUOTE=Aztec Performance Ltd;10705181]It depends on how you define road legal. QUOTE]
It was my understanding that if they aren't R90 then in the UK then they aren't approved for use on the road therefore they aren't road legal.
Am I wrong?
It was my understanding that if they aren't R90 then in the UK then they aren't approved for use on the road therefore they aren't road legal.
Am I wrong?
03 August 2012, 05:02 PM
#22
Implications of not being R90 approved?
It's just a label where most people are concerned. EBC Bluestuff wasn't R90 approved at first, but EBC then invested in having it R90 approved. The compound stayed the same though.
Many fast road and track pads are not R90 approved. EBC advertise that fact, most other pad manufacturers don't.
Let me know if you need any further info
It's just a label where most people are concerned. EBC Bluestuff wasn't R90 approved at first, but EBC then invested in having it R90 approved. The compound stayed the same though.
Many fast road and track pads are not R90 approved. EBC advertise that fact, most other pad manufacturers don't.
Let me know if you need any further info
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