Anti roll bar drop link
07 February 2009, 02:20 PM
#2
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This will do the job i think as unipart want £45 for one lol
SUBARU IMPREZA WRX TURBO ANTI ROLL BAR LINK FRONT on eBay, also, Subaru, Car Parts, Cars, Parts Vehicles (end time 16-Feb-09 15:10:25 GMT)
SUBARU IMPREZA WRX TURBO ANTI ROLL BAR LINK FRONT on eBay, also, Subaru, Car Parts, Cars, Parts Vehicles (end time 16-Feb-09 15:10:25 GMT)
07 February 2009, 02:37 PM
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Just thought i'd add that whiteline do a pair of droplinks for £40, i'd swap both while your under there mate just in case the other is gonna give up.
07 February 2009, 02:48 PM
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07 February 2009, 03:05 PM
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How can fitting these:-
http://www.scoobyclinic.com/images/t...ne_linkkit.jpg
Somehow 'UPRATE' your suspension?? Serious question ......
http://www.scoobyclinic.com/images/t...ne_linkkit.jpg
Somehow 'UPRATE' your suspension?? Serious question ......
07 February 2009, 03:24 PM
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How can fitting these:-
http://www.scoobyclinic.com/images/t...ne_linkkit.jpg
Somehow 'UPRATE' your suspension?? Serious question ......
http://www.scoobyclinic.com/images/t...ne_linkkit.jpg
Somehow 'UPRATE' your suspension?? Serious question ......
Aaron
07 February 2009, 06:23 PM
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AH, I see ..... thanks.
Subaru fitted plastic ones which flex ... yet steel or alloy ones would not have been any more expensive.
Is there a benefit to them Flexing I wonder?
Subaru fitted plastic ones which flex ... yet steel or alloy ones would not have been any more expensive.
Is there a benefit to them Flexing I wonder?
07 February 2009, 06:49 PM
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Aaron
07 February 2009, 08:44 PM
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) ...... it will be interesting to see if Subaru still offer the plastic ones as replacements?
08 February 2009, 11:24 AM
#15
a cheeper alternative is to use the drop links off a E30 bmw rear roll bar, or might be front
its just a normal ball jointed tie rod like all cars have but does the EXACT JOB and is alot cheeper
thats what i done as a temp repair when i was waitin for my rose jointed links to arrive as the ***** rubbish whiteline rose jointed ones snapped and where made of rubbish quality !!!
its just a normal ball jointed tie rod like all cars have but does the EXACT JOB and is alot cheeper
thats what i done as a temp repair when i was waitin for my rose jointed links to arrive as the ***** rubbish whiteline rose jointed ones snapped and where made of rubbish quality !!!
08 February 2009, 11:43 AM
#16
The OE ones are designed to flex when under load, its part of dampening the "live axle" effect that ARBs cause when hitting bumps when cornering.
The rigid can fail as they don't have enough compliance in the bushings so the metal part is stressed and twisted when being loaded, eventually causing a fatigue failure, especially with a stiffened ARB.
(As a note: The live axle effect is pretty easily understood by anyone who has driven a vehicle with a live rear axle fast on a twisty bumpy road...hit a bump on a fast bend and the back end steps out of line - its fun, but unstable)
Last edited by ALi-B; 08 February 2009 at 11:46 AM.
08 February 2009, 12:34 PM
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The OE ones are designed to flex when under load, its part of dampening the "live axle" effect that ARBs cause when hitting bumps when cornering.
The rigid can fail as they don't have enough compliance in the bushings so the metal part is stressed and twisted when being loaded, eventually causing a fatigue failure, especially with a stiffened ARB.
(As a note: The live axle effect is pretty easily understood by anyone who has driven a vehicle with a live rear axle fast on a twisty bumpy road...hit a bump on a fast bend and the back end steps out of line - its fun, but unstable)
The rigid can fail as they don't have enough compliance in the bushings so the metal part is stressed and twisted when being loaded, eventually causing a fatigue failure, especially with a stiffened ARB.
(As a note: The live axle effect is pretty easily understood by anyone who has driven a vehicle with a live rear axle fast on a twisty bumpy road...hit a bump on a fast bend and the back end steps out of line - its fun, but unstable)
08 February 2009, 01:12 PM
#18
Well its down to if one sees it as a benefit: Without doubt, rear ARB kits make the rear end more prone to sliding. That can be both a good and bad thing.
Inherently the Impreza is very understeer-prone (engine way out in the front, basic McPherson strut front suspension). It can be argued that the rear suspension has better geometry control under load than the front and hence the rear end grips too well. Meaning that when pushing the car hard, it usually understeers first.
The cheap, easy way to fix this is make the rear grip less. And one way do that is by removing the independence of the rear suspension by stiffing the roll bar and its linkage. Which in effect makes the rear suspension act more and more like a solid beam (or live axle) the stiffer and less compliant the ARB and its linkage is made. This reduces the effectiveness of the rear suspension to grip the road when cornering (especially if its bumpy).
Its all about balance; making the car more oversteer-prone. To someone who doesn't want the car to understeer, they can see it as an improvement in the feel of the car. If it suits their driving style, it can make the car quicker round a track.
However, there is a drawback; reduced independence of the rear suspension reduces its ability to cope on bumpy roads. Which in turn makes it more unstable at speed. I think we've all seen and heard of plenty of cases and consequences where a driver has suffered snap-oversteer in an Impreza. Messing with the rear ARB has a part to play in this. So its something that should always be kept in mind when "pressing on" in the twisties.
The ultimate cure IMO is to fix the front suspension's weaknesses. However options are limited and it is a hell of alot more costly that a set of drop links and/or an uprated ARB, which is why people opt for the latter. One of my pipe dreams was to fit the multi-link front suspension from a p11 Primera into the front of a Classic shape Impreza, if you look at a p11's front suspension, you can see why I would want to do that.
08 February 2009, 03:15 PM
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The OE ones are designed to flex when under load, its part of dampening the "live axle" effect that ARBs cause when hitting bumps when cornering.
The rigid can fail as they don't have enough compliance in the bushings so the metal part is stressed and twisted when being loaded, eventually causing a fatigue failure, especially with a stiffened ARB.
(As a note: The live axle effect is pretty easily understood by anyone who has driven a vehicle with a live rear axle fast on a twisty bumpy road...hit a bump on a fast bend and the back end steps out of line - its fun, but unstable)
The rigid can fail as they don't have enough compliance in the bushings so the metal part is stressed and twisted when being loaded, eventually causing a fatigue failure, especially with a stiffened ARB.
(As a note: The live axle effect is pretty easily understood by anyone who has driven a vehicle with a live rear axle fast on a twisty bumpy road...hit a bump on a fast bend and the back end steps out of line - its fun, but unstable)
Just one question is why have subaru started using steel links now. Also i have uprated both the arb's but kept bar thickness the same on both front and rear, would you say that this a better setup for rd occasional track?.Aaron
08 February 2009, 04:00 PM
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The word 'Uprated' is over used and used incorrectly most times. The word is actually 'Alternative'.
08 February 2009, 06:26 PM
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Well its down to if one sees it as a benefit: Without doubt, rear ARB kits make the rear end more prone to sliding. That can be both a good and bad thing.
Inherently the Impreza is very understeer-prone (engine way out in the front, basic McPherson strut front suspension). It can be argued that the rear suspension has better geometry control under load than the front and hence the rear end grips too well. Meaning that when pushing the car hard, it usually understeers first.
The cheap, easy way to fix this is make the rear grip less. And one way do that is by removing the independence of the rear suspension by stiffing the roll bar and its linkage. Which in effect makes the rear suspension act more and more like a solid beam (or live axle) the stiffer and less compliant the ARB and its linkage is made. This reduces the effectiveness of the rear suspension to grip the road when cornering (especially if its bumpy).
Its all about balance; making the car more oversteer-prone. To someone who doesn't want the car to understeer, they can see it as an improvement in the feel of the car. If it suits their driving style, it can make the car quicker round a track.
However, there is a drawback; reduced independence of the rear suspension reduces its ability to cope on bumpy roads. Which in turn makes it more unstable at speed. I think we've all seen and heard of plenty of cases and consequences where a driver has suffered snap-oversteer in an Impreza. Messing with the rear ARB has a part to play in this. So its something that should always be kept in mind when "pressing on" in the twisties.
The ultimate cure IMO is to fix the front suspension's weaknesses. However options are limited and it is a hell of alot more costly that a set of drop links and/or an uprated ARB, which is why people opt for the latter. One of my pipe dreams was to fit the multi-link front suspension from a p11 Primera into the front of a Classic shape Impreza, if you look at a p11's front suspension, you can see why I would want to do that.
Inherently the Impreza is very understeer-prone (engine way out in the front, basic McPherson strut front suspension). It can be argued that the rear suspension has better geometry control under load than the front and hence the rear end grips too well. Meaning that when pushing the car hard, it usually understeers first.
The cheap, easy way to fix this is make the rear grip less. And one way do that is by removing the independence of the rear suspension by stiffing the roll bar and its linkage. Which in effect makes the rear suspension act more and more like a solid beam (or live axle) the stiffer and less compliant the ARB and its linkage is made. This reduces the effectiveness of the rear suspension to grip the road when cornering (especially if its bumpy).
Its all about balance; making the car more oversteer-prone. To someone who doesn't want the car to understeer, they can see it as an improvement in the feel of the car. If it suits their driving style, it can make the car quicker round a track.
However, there is a drawback; reduced independence of the rear suspension reduces its ability to cope on bumpy roads. Which in turn makes it more unstable at speed. I think we've all seen and heard of plenty of cases and consequences where a driver has suffered snap-oversteer in an Impreza. Messing with the rear ARB has a part to play in this. So its something that should always be kept in mind when "pressing on" in the twisties.
The ultimate cure IMO is to fix the front suspension's weaknesses. However options are limited and it is a hell of alot more costly that a set of drop links and/or an uprated ARB, which is why people opt for the latter. One of my pipe dreams was to fit the multi-link front suspension from a p11 Primera into the front of a Classic shape Impreza, if you look at a p11's front suspension, you can see why I would want to do that.
. Look out they will be along in a minute to get you
09 February 2009, 05:54 AM
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The fitting of larger anti roll bars (rear and in general) has two main effects, vehicle balance in terms of understeer and oversteer, and increased roll resistance. Both of these can provide increased overall grip levels that can be achieved by the vehicle.
As most factory vehicles are biased towards understeer, fitting of the larger rear anti roll bar will help in providing a more neutral characteristic in the handling at the limit. This is due to the increase in roll stiffness at the rear, which loads the rear wheels more unevenly and provides slightly less grip at the rear than previous.
At first this may sound sacrificial, however, as the rear end is resisting more of the roll, the front end resists less in proportion, leaving the front wheels more evenly loaded, therefore more available front end grip. In the end an increase in overall grip can be achieved by balancing the vehicle. Most Imprezas or other front torque biased all wheel drive vehicle will benefit even more due to combined front end steering/traction demand.
Another effect of introducing larger rear bars is that the roll stiffness is increased, and chassis roll is reduced, this also reduces the effects of "roll camber". Roll camber is the variation in the wheel/tyre camber setting due to chassis roll, and during cornering usually results in the outside wheels gaining positive camber.
By increasing the roll stiffness and reducing roll camber effect, the wheel/tyre stays closer to its wheel alignment setting or optimal setting. This can increase the overall cornering grip available, as
the wheel/tyre does not lose as much negative camber at the limit.
The balance (and grip increase) of the car could also be achieved by reducing the front anti roll bar stiffness, however its roll stiffness would be reduced and roll camber would suffer. This would lead to large amounts of positive camber being gained on the outside wheels/tyres when cornering. This would result in a wheel/tyre that would not be at its optimal camber setting at the limit of grip.
This could be remedied with large amounts of static camber to counter act the positive camber gain, however the resulting tyre wear, and straight-line handling effects would suffer.
As most factory vehicles are biased towards understeer, fitting of the larger rear anti roll bar will help in providing a more neutral characteristic in the handling at the limit. This is due to the increase in roll stiffness at the rear, which loads the rear wheels more unevenly and provides slightly less grip at the rear than previous.
At first this may sound sacrificial, however, as the rear end is resisting more of the roll, the front end resists less in proportion, leaving the front wheels more evenly loaded, therefore more available front end grip. In the end an increase in overall grip can be achieved by balancing the vehicle. Most Imprezas or other front torque biased all wheel drive vehicle will benefit even more due to combined front end steering/traction demand.
Another effect of introducing larger rear bars is that the roll stiffness is increased, and chassis roll is reduced, this also reduces the effects of "roll camber". Roll camber is the variation in the wheel/tyre camber setting due to chassis roll, and during cornering usually results in the outside wheels gaining positive camber.
By increasing the roll stiffness and reducing roll camber effect, the wheel/tyre stays closer to its wheel alignment setting or optimal setting. This can increase the overall cornering grip available, as
the wheel/tyre does not lose as much negative camber at the limit.
The balance (and grip increase) of the car could also be achieved by reducing the front anti roll bar stiffness, however its roll stiffness would be reduced and roll camber would suffer. This would lead to large amounts of positive camber being gained on the outside wheels/tyres when cornering. This would result in a wheel/tyre that would not be at its optimal camber setting at the limit of grip.
This could be remedied with large amounts of static camber to counter act the positive camber gain, however the resulting tyre wear, and straight-line handling effects would suffer.
Last edited by lookout; 09 February 2009 at 08:51 AM.
09 February 2009, 10:07 PM
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Well its down to if one sees it as a benefit: Without doubt, rear ARB kits make the rear end more prone to sliding. That can be both a good and bad thing.
Inherently the Impreza is very understeer-prone (engine way out in the front, basic McPherson strut front suspension). It can be argued that the rear suspension has better geometry control under load than the front and hence the rear end grips too well. Meaning that when pushing the car hard, it usually understeers first.
The cheap, easy way to fix this is make the rear grip less. And one way do that is by removing the independence of the rear suspension by stiffing the roll bar and its linkage. Which in effect makes the rear suspension act more and more like a solid beam (or live axle) the stiffer and less compliant the ARB and its linkage is made. This reduces the effectiveness of the rear suspension to grip the road when cornering (especially if its bumpy).
Its all about balance; making the car more oversteer-prone. To someone who doesn't want the car to understeer, they can see it as an improvement in the feel of the car. If it suits their driving style, it can make the car quicker round a track.
this is what im talking aboutThe ultimate cure IMO is to fix the front suspension's weaknesses. However options are limited and it is a hell of alot more costly that a set of drop links and/or an uprated ARB, which is why people opt for the latter. One of my pipe dreams was to fit the multi-link front suspension from a p11 Primera into the front of a Classic shape Impreza, if you look at a p11's front suspension, you can see why I would want to do that.
Inherently the Impreza is very understeer-prone (engine way out in the front, basic McPherson strut front suspension). It can be argued that the rear suspension has better geometry control under load than the front and hence the rear end grips too well. Meaning that when pushing the car hard, it usually understeers first.
The cheap, easy way to fix this is make the rear grip less. And one way do that is by removing the independence of the rear suspension by stiffing the roll bar and its linkage. Which in effect makes the rear suspension act more and more like a solid beam (or live axle) the stiffer and less compliant the ARB and its linkage is made. This reduces the effectiveness of the rear suspension to grip the road when cornering (especially if its bumpy).
Its all about balance; making the car more oversteer-prone. To someone who doesn't want the car to understeer, they can see it as an improvement in the feel of the car. If it suits their driving style, it can make the car quicker round a track.
However, there is a drawback; reduced independence of the rear suspension reduces its ability to cope on bumpy roads. Which in turn makes it more unstable at speed. I think we've all seen and heard of plenty of cases and consequences where a driver has suffered snap-oversteer in an Impreza. Messing with the rear ARB has a part to play in this. So its something that should always be kept in mind when "pressing on" in the twisties.
Last edited by andrew jeffs; 09 February 2009 at 10:17 PM.
10 February 2009, 06:20 AM
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exactly the experience me and a friend in a identical classic(to his expense)found out.I put a 22mm bar on the rear of mine after driving the car for years without a sniff of oversteer.Felt great much shaper on the nose,massive roll reduction on the rear,but just to unsafe,i had 2 incidents with the rear stepping out at lowish speeds,it felt like the rear was just scrubbing around the road.Before i had the bar on,i encountered far to much roll at the back,but it never stepped out.I didnt fancy losing the rear at higher speeds where my limited oversteer experience could get me in trouble,so off to ebay it went
That is why ARB manufacurers make 20, 22, 24 and 27mm rear anti roll bars. That allows people to choose the correct one for their driving style and car.
10 February 2009, 09:15 PM
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It sounds like you were running toe-out on the rear or had thrill-seeker rear tyres. If not, it sounds like your driving style did not warrant a 22mm rear arb but possibly a 20mm...........
That is why ARB manufacurers make 20, 22, 24 and 27mm rear anti roll bars. That allows people to choose the correct one for their driving style and car.
That is why ARB manufacurers make 20, 22, 24 and 27mm rear anti roll bars. That allows people to choose the correct one for their driving style and car.
10 February 2009, 10:41 PM
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the geometry on the car was set by tjh motorsport to p1 settings,the tyres are excellent bf goodrich g force profilers,the 22mm bar was purchased after reading many threads that this was the most sensible bar to fit(on the lowest setting)for retaining natural understeer tendancies so in theary it was supposed to behave like a 20mm bar(when you pick up a standard uk turbo rear bar and a whiteline item,the whiteline bar weighs much more),i have heard the uk bars are not solid.My driving style is a smooth non agressive style from many years of karting and driving fast front wheel drive cars(rs turbo,309,106 gti,integra type r).I know what causes excessive oversteer,and my incidents were out of the blue at lowish speeds,as i said i had cornered much harder on the standard bar,but was unhappy about the roll encountered from the rear,but it never oversteered at all?
,i have never seen a uk anti roll bar thats hollow. not a subaru bar m8 ,hotchkiss bar maybe geo
Last edited by cusco kid; 10 February 2009 at 10:43 PM.
12 February 2009, 12:11 PM
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A question. I have a Whiteline rear ARB on my wagon, and it's set to the middle of the three settings available. I reckon that it slides far too easily. Would adjusting the ARB control this to an extent? And if it would, am i right in saying that it's the hole nearest the front of the car, rather than the hole nearest the back of the car, in the ARB, that i need to change to? Cheers.
12 February 2009, 12:39 PM
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A question. I have a Whiteline rear ARB on my wagon, and it's set to the middle of the three settings available. I reckon that it slides far too easily. Would adjusting the ARB control this to an extent? And if it would, am i right in saying that it's the hole nearest the front of the car, rather than the hole nearest the back of the car, in the ARB, that i need to change to? Cheers.
I wish I had read this thread _before_ I let an MOT garage fit replacement plastic arb links for £89.74 + vat this afternoon. I'm such a noob...