stiscooby

Took my car for it's service on the weekend and while there I asked them to take a look at the rear suspension as occasionally something knocks at the rear of the car (i believe it's because the wrong drop links were fitted when the previous owner had the car but thought I would see what they think as I haven't got round to changing them yet).

After they had taken it up the road they said they couldn't hear anything (probably wouldn't because it only does it now and then) but they guy did mention he thought the ride was quite hard and suggested I check the settings and went on to explain that if it's set to hard for the road the shock can't work properly and that could be causing the knock as the shocks not absorbing anything??

Anyway, when I got home and took the rear seats out I found the suspension was already set to it's softest (16 clicks out). To me it doesn't seem too bad but I haven't been in anything else to compare it with, although it would be nice if it was a bit softer.

So, to all you out there with this suspension, how hard do you find yours? I know it's a hard thing to describe on here but this guy now has me thinking there could be something up with the shocks if they are harder than what they should be, or is it a case of the normal garage cobblers?

JB1

Which Teins do you have? Mine (super race) are set soft for the road, but that is still really hard. Mid settings on mine are that hard that you can't move the wing if you try and bounce it. Fully hard is like no suspension at all, and only used on a really smooth race circuits.

dunx

iTrader: (3)

Typical Teins, set-up for super smooth Japanese highways....

I wish they could sort out a UK spec. as I'd like the Flex Mono's with EDFC.

DunxC

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

All Teins are not super hard!!! They do the superstreet kit, which has the same spring rates as the ASTs for road use. My Classic has 4,3kgf mm.

Read here for review:

https://www.scoobynet.com/scoobynet-...e-reviews.html

The problem is a lot of people go for much harder set ups (thinking harder is better) which just aren't suitable for the road. Many people I know with unsuitable coilovers, just inherited them when they got the car.

EDFC IS the way forward for adjustable suspension. No fussing around - in car adjustment, simplicity itself.

Ns04

stiscooby

I have the "Super Streets" on mine, they are currently set to the softest settings (16 turns out).

There is a little movement when bouncing (well trying to bounce) the car/wing but hardly moves at all?? Probably not even 1cm??

Can the springs be changed/would this help? Not sure what's currently on it, just whatever comes with the kit from new.

P.S. New Scooby 04 - Regarding your link/review = It was Xtreme Scoobies who done the service & they fitted/supplied the suspension Jan '08 when the previous owner had the car. They did mention they had the same kit on their car with the EDFC and said mine felt harder than theirs.

Oh, and my cars a 2004 STI.

bren@apex

iTrader: (20)

Springs are only half the story, the damper valving is the most significant factor in the ride quality. Thats not so easy to alter.

reano

iTrader: (2)

I have Tein's monoflex which are 'supposed' to be the hardest for roaad use but with Tein I have found the following to be the best thing.

1) generally Tein's sit very low compared to other suspension setups. You need to raise the suspension about 3/4 - 1" above this low setting this has two effects it ensures the roll is reduced (you wouldn't have thought so but Ive tried both). It also makes the ride even softer than sitting low. The car will feel slightly less planted at speed but ......

2) Get the EDFC it's a joy to use and adjust.

3) On softest setting it is way better than the standard STi with prodrive springs

4) Ensure wheels are balanced to take out any judder when driving.

5) Get the floor wells treated with 'noisekiller' padding (under carpet) it will reduce noise and make you feel like you've softened the suspension another 3 notches.

6) Ensure when you raise height of suspension that you get wheel alignment setup properly.

My Tein's are fine over bumps (within reason of course), motorway, A roads, etc as I have done all the above ....

ioa1980

My coilovers are Tein but have Cusco struts ...either way, the ride is firm, but not as firm as just changing the springs for lowered springs.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Confusing that 16 is the softest isn't it!

You don't really want the car to bounce when you try and do it by sitting on the wing etc.. Really, if its the same kit, with the same spring rates and valving, it should be identical to the Xtreme car! Do you have any further chassis mods? Are they sure the owner didn't change the spring rate to higher levels after they fitted the original kit?

5/4 on the superstreets should feel very nice on a new age. Classics need to softer 4/3 spring rate.

Ns04

stiscooby

Thanks for all the tips there........... regarding point 1) So are you saying I should try raising it this amount on top of the recommended default settings of the Tein kit (which I think it how they are currently set), or have it set this amount from the lowest ride height possible i.e. from the bottom of the thread on the shock? As per this article http://www.tein.co.uk/installation_m...inst/qbs28.pdf

2) any idea where I can get the noise killer stuff from as I have been looking to get something like this and already came across this site bit it doesn't seem possible to actually order it from there?

Cheers

stiscooby

My car is also fitted with Whiteline front & rear ARB's, Whiteline Anti lift kit and Whiteline front & rear drop links.

Do you know if the springs are marked in some way so I could check which ones are fitted without taking them off and having them checked?? I would have thought they are the ones that came with the kit as the previous owner wasn't really the sort to go fiddling with things once they had been fitted, although I guess you never really know for sure.

It's running the standard 17" STI wheels/tyres too. So no silly low profile tyres.

bren@apex

iTrader: (20)

You raise the roll centre when you lower the car. This effectively increases the leverage the mass of the car has on roll whilst cornering thus increasing body roll.

Its one of the reasons why you shouldnt lower vehicles too far. You also start introducing bump steer as the cars lowered because you end up with the tie rods being sat in an upward angle when the cars sat static which then leads to the front of the wheel being pulled out as it travels upwards over bumps.

You can control roll by fitting stiffer springs and/or anti roll bar but this destroys the cars ride quality.

The answers are taller bottom ball joints and bump steer modifcation to bring the tie rod back to the horizontal:

Roll centre adjusters

Or just dont go nuts with the lowering

We run the taller ball joints and anti bump steer rod ends on all of our track cars. We run our road cars at a sensible height to negate the need. Our V8 powered competiton winning championship contending Skyline is sat low but we dont have issues with bump steer or roll with the above parts fitted:

V8 Skyline

We will be dropping the car further for 2009 as the mass is still a little high for track work but we need to either relocate the resr inner tie rod pick up points of sink the entire rear subframe up in the car as we will get rear bump steer lowering further without the mods

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Hi mate, I think your extra chassi mods probably account for the extra harshness over the Xtreme car. Their car is otherwise standard apart from a strut brace, which is there for bling. Knowlsey was quite adamant to me that if you get a really good quality suspension set up, thicker roll bars, antilift kits etc are not required and will only impair refinement further.

Bren is bang on about lowering the car. 25mm is about as low as you want to go on a classic scooby IMHO if you don't want to start adversely affecting the handling. I have a classic, so I run 4/3. and it doesn't roll appreciably at all anymore. I certainly wouldn't want to go any stiffer with the springs for road use though.

Ns04

bren@apex

iTrader: (20)

Adjustable anti roll bars are a very useful tool to help dial in the cars handling balance. They can also be used to minimise coilover spring strength as you can use the anti roll bar to help control body roll and as a result dont need such stiff springs on the suspension units.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Yep, I think they're at their greatest use with std set ups or with softer spring upgrades. That said, I'm about as soft as you can go with coilovers and I'd maintain you simply don't need to reduce roll any further, certainly not for road use. If you do use the car on track, they might be a good addition though, and the great thing about em is that they're inexpensive and easy to get on and off, so you can try before you buy etc...

bren@apex

iTrader: (20)

We dont run uprated roll bars on our car and have run on track with sticky rubber. I do feel we need something stiffer on the rear though as the car does understeer a lot on the limit. I do agree that roll itself isnt a particular problem, not with my current set up

172sport

iTrader: (6)

The truth is you dont want hard for the road you want a complient setup, coilovers are a waste IMHO as there are usually cheap and mismatched.
You wouldnt go far wrong with the std P1 suspension for fast road use.

stiscooby

Thanks for the info/help guys.....

To be honest I don't really drive the car that hard on the road and I have no plans on taking it on track so the upgrades that are currently on the car are probably a little over kill for me.

The ARB's are currently set to the medium settings so I might set these to the softest and see if this makes any difference. I do have the original ARB's and drop links which the previous owner passed on with the car so maybe when I have some spare time I might try swapping them back just to see what difference it makes too.

New Scooby - Is your car lowered/set as per the Tein manuals default settings i.e. about 1" up the thread (well that for the Newage model not sure if your classic is the same?).

stiscooby

Don't think the P1 suspension would fit my 04 STI?

l1verp00l

Tein HA on my ride.

Rock hard even on softest settings

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

I presume you mean lower the roll centre Bren

The difference between the centre of gravity and the new lower roll centre is then greater and the leverage greater.

Roll centre adjusters like those raise the roll centre back up.

They work very nicely on good suspension.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Hi mate, I asked for mine to be set up according to Tein's suggestions for the GC8 i.e. 25mm drop front and rear IIRC. Looks low, but not "slammed".

I'm still paying with damper settings, but have recently found 10 on the front and rears to be good. Feels firm and tight, but not too harsh.

For reference, when I have my dampers set to max soft the ride is better than the MY99s OEM ride on all but big bumps!

Ns04

bren@apex

iTrader: (20)

Youll be interested to hear that our new prototype 4/3kg.mm longer stroke units have now arrived ready for us to begin evaluating them

typeRv4

I run Tein SS with the above mods plus a few braces.

Originally the car came with very hard suspension that i lived with for a while. Then the shocks died and i had the chance to buy the SS on the cheap.

I found with just the Tein SS fitted you could run about 5 clicks from fully soft. Really nice.

Now with the above mods added fully soft is needed. And its a firm ride. The extra mods / braces firm the ride up for sure.

Try running the swaybars on the softest setting - it helps.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Yep, that's about what I usually drive with the EDFC set to. It's firm, but not crashy or too harsh. Feels planted and secure.

Interesting about the effect of the braces, do you have the pillowball top mounts too?

Ns04

NorthDownsScooby

Tein SuperWagons on mine - with the EDFC - a brilliant piece of kit.

Reguarly use 3 settings:

1. F15: R16 - soft, passenger carrying setting - a bit bouncy for me if I'm on my own on Kent/Surrey roads
2: F7:R9: everyday setting - can be rough on some local roads at slow speeds
3. F1:R3: out for a blast setting - tight as a gnat's chuff.

Rich

typeRv4

Yep had the pillowball top mounts.

My thts are the chassis works as a fifth spring and stiffening it up firms up the ride as well. For example i put in a whiteline rear strut brace. It felt like the spring rate had increased in the rear.

So for a daily driver tein ss and 22mm ARBs would be a good combo - imo.

The odd mods i have done (see profile) certainly have improved handling on the right bit of road.

Jay_

I've had Tein Flex with EDFC for a few years now and am really pleased with the adjustability.

When they were first installed I thought the setup was much firmer than the standard STI suspension but still very usable on the road. Over time I've gradually uprated roll bars, drop links, H brace, lateral links, trailing arms, diff bushes etc etc... this has dramatically increased stiffness and therefore 'hardened' up the suspension for any given setting on the EDFC. The car is much firmer than it was when they were first installed.

I now run much softer settings on the road... even the softest is pretty firm but I don't find it too crashy etc.

I've found running 2 clicks softer on the front really helps with turn-in and dramatically improves handling & stability on road, more so on track.

So if you haven't got any other under-body mods, Tein Basics or Flex should be fine but I would think they're going to be firmer than AST's.

stiscooby

Well I do also have fitted:

Tein adj Top Mounts.
Whiteline front and rear ARB's.
Whiteline front and rear solid alloy drop links.
Whiteline Anti Lift Kit.
Front Strut Brace (can't remember which one but it's a thick solid one ).

So I guess this all goes towards making things stiffer/firmer ride.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Yep, that'll do it Bet it corners well though! Also bet you're glad you went for the softest spring rate!

You can't have your cake and eat it I'm afraid, if you want a really focused set up, there will be a compromise in the way the car rides.

Ns04