Nick Read

Just thought it might be worth posting up what I found now I've fitted a Whiteline 22mm adjustable Anti-Roll Bar to replace the factory item. 'Wow' is the only way to describe it. Although after fettling with tyre pressures, upgrading the ARB drop links front and rear for Whiteline alloy versions, and getting Leda to dial up the Whiteline 'touring' geometry settings (-1deg camber front, 1mm toe out at the rear), it was definitely a lot more neutral in cornering than it had been, and understeer was starting to disappear, but still the balance was definitely more towards understeer than anything else.

Now I've fitted the bigger ARB at the rear (set to its middle hole) you can keep it tight round almost any corner - just pick your steering angle and stay on your chosen line virtually by using the throttle along. Lift-off oversteer is much more pronounced but still controllable, power oversteer is much more of an event - instead of feeling like you've got a minor four wheel drift going on, I can (for the first time) hear the rear tyres squealing and digging in, letting the fronts get on with the job of steering.

All in all, a highly recommended mod, and it took me all of an hour to do on my driveway at home, didn't even have to jack it up (standard ride height, 98 wagon)

corradoboy

I found that when moving to the stiffest setting on my MY03 WRX that the turn-in improved again along with the lift-off oversteer reducing and overall cornering control greatly improving. Try it After all, it only takes 10 minutes, and you can switch it back if it's not for you. Myself and several other all prefer the stiffer setting though.

Nick Read

I was thinking of having a crack at that, I might give it a go this coming weekend. So it won't get too lairy in the wet?

911

So what if it does (it did for me but i was racing at the time!)
10 mins and you are back to 'comfort zone'.

You must try these things to find the best spot for the car and driver.

Have fun!
Graham.

http://jusspress.com/day.php?userid=...entTime=123828

corradoboy

As I said, I found that the car control was greatly improved. I did expect the tail to get a bit happier, especially in the wet, but quite the reverse happened. I think that by keeping the car more level and thus maintaining the alignment of the tyres to the surface and the COG of the car more centrally stable that the grip level increases. I was surprised at this outcome as one would expect the opposite, and it has been commented on before on here. A couple of my mates followed my example and found exactly the same result. Over my years of driving I have come to realise that the best set-up for me isn't the initial premise that many assume to make a good handling car, by having everything rock hard. I find that a softer overall suspension set-up gives the car a good ride and flexibility over differing surfaces and in differing conditions, whilst minimising body roll keeps the sprung mass of the vehicle in control when cornering, limiting COG movement and keeping each wheel in better alignment with the road surface.

Make the change, go out and try it and see how you like it. I tried it out on an off-camber roundabout where all cars understeer, not just Scoobs, and coming out of a sideroad from standstill turning downhill, where the road surface is naturally falling away from you and the back end will want to break free. In both situations I found the front to follow a truer line when pushed and the rear to be much harder to break free into power oversteer. If you don't like it or find the opposite, then swap it back and put it down to experience. Nothing ventured.....

killa

iTrader: (7)

Might need to try the stiffer setting...

ozzy

Just make sure you don't try it all out on the city centre roundabout in the middle of rush hour

Like any car, it's reaction will depend on your own driving style. Mine steps out slightly if I'm very aggressive with the turn-in. Take things more smoothly and it's never been a problem in my experience.

bgood

iTrader: (2)

After speaking recently to corradaboy at the monthly meet decided to move mine from the middle hole to the end, the stiffest and boy am I glad I did

Big difference, understeer gone on all but the very tightest of roundabouts and the weight feels as though it has moved toward the back of the car when cornering now, before it always felt like I was being held on the road by the front left or right, depending which way the corner went. It now feels like the rear is doing a lot more of the work and I don't have to turn the wheel as much for some reason, plus it holds a much tighter line on corners where as before it used to drift wide (understeer I spose?)

All in all I find it miles better, have loads more confidence in the car now as it goes where I want it where as before I was never really sure how it was going to react, try it, you might like it

911

What are your tyre pressures?
Graham.

rgv_stu

best place / price for getting one of these beasties ??

corradoboy

Not sure if it's the best price, but Scoobyclinic do them for IRO £90+vat fitted. Make sure you also get the solid droplinks (another £35 for steel ones - don't bother with the bling alloy, they're no better and the steel ones won't rust away for about 25 years).

Fangoria

iTrader: (1)

I found that I got better all round improvement by changing the front ARB, changing the rear ARB made it too unsettled and a bit jittery - although I think I might have it in the hardest of the 3 settings

I have front arb, rear arb, drop links, anti-lift kit (essential) rear strut brace, replacement sti front strut brace (carbon fibre sti one is a joke), bump steer, geometry rod bolts (to enable easier set up on geometry) and power station geometry set to -1.5 degrees all round on 18 inch wheels (215/35's) on an sti5

Pressures set to 34 front and 32 rear

Its ok on track but not as good as aftermarket suspension

Nick Read

I'm running Whiteline settings and hardware - 1mm toe out at the rear, 1 degree neg camber at the front, 36psi front, 32 psi rear, alloy droplinks both ends and the 22mm adjustable bar at the rear. Seems to work pretty well at the moment, but just to be sure, the 'softest' setting of the bar would be the hole closest to the end, the 'hardest' would be the innermost one?

911

Nick:
Spot-on with the hole closest to the bar = hardest etc.
Graham.

Fangoria: You and I are the only ones with Whiteline front and rear bars I think!

IMHO I feel you can delete the ALK and fit Noltec top mounts instead.
Graham.

Fuzz

Andy

speednut

you can add me to that list aswell. Standard drop links though (Powerstation sent me the wrong ones...and I haven't got round to sending them back. I've also got the castor kit which I didn't fit either if anyone's interested.)

Nick Read

Is that the anti-lift kit you're talking about? LMK if it is, I might be interested.

I just adjusted the ARB yesterday (to the hardest setting) and I'm still testing today. Unfortunately it was very cold and greasy when I took it out last night on my private roundabout simulation facility. What does seem immediately obvious is that lift-off oversteer is no longer optional LOL - it's a certainty!

The whole car feels flatter through corners and I can feel that once the front end does dig in, it digs in hard. The angle of the car is a little more adjustable on the throttle than it used to be - reacts more instantly. Initial 'plough on' understeer is still a big problem if there's too much entry speed, but the conditions last night had a lot to do with that. I'll try it again on a warmer drier day and see how we go.

Probably had my first 'moment' with the new ARB setting as well, coming out of a 3rd gear left with a narrowing exit on full throttle, overcooked it a bit and ended up fishtailing off into the distance (not into the scenery though!), rather than a relatively mellow 4-wheel drift which is what used to happen...back to driving school for me then.

dazc

Standard suspension, whiteline droplinks front and rear, arb on middle setting.

I found the nose a bit too keen to turn in with the rear arb on the stiffest setting. It would dart in and kind of unsettle the rear. Seemed like it needed less steering input to get around corners, marginally flatter too, but of out of sync with the front (std) arb, almost as if they were at odds with each other.

The stiff rear setting and an upgraded front arb would probably be good, but as it was it made me nervous. Would be awful in the wet imo. The softest setting is not worth bothering with, too similar to standard.

Middle setting still exploitable and corners flat but without the scary bit when your not expecting it...Great mod though.

Daz

Fangoria

iTrader: (1)

Graham

Front was pretty essentail for me, with the numerous high speed mapping sessions with Bob
After Bob R drove the car a few years back we decided that a front ARB would be appropriate, at the same time I put in a rear strut brace and replaced the front strut brace - this made a 'huge' difference - but cant say how much was solely attributable to the front ARB - I would expect a lot as the rear strut brace would have made the car more tail happy..... so the front arb was there to neutralise things!!

I did notice a marked improvement going from 1 degree negative to 1.5 degree negative on handling ability - wears the tyres out quicker but never an issue for me with all the other problems I never drive it more than 3000-4000 miles a year

I never did understand the Bump steer mod - but I also have never been persuaded to put on a full aftermarket kit either. I had LedaC (think it was C - cant rememeber if it was Leda B - which ever was the most expensive at the time!) on an Escort Cosworth and I have pictures of it off it literally bouncing down a bumpy road - it was rock hard even on the softest setting............. and killed the comfort - probably the reason I have not changed the std set up on the Scooby - i.e. retained the shocks and springs - I only really notice it wallowing at very high speeds - i.e. 120mph into a corner!!

I've never had a proper session on track as I've always had exhaust gasket blow round the race circuits with Gruppe S and then the Cylinder heads cracked when I properly sorted that

I'm currently trying to deal with other 'knocking sound' issues at the moment then hope to give the car a good thrashing (well, sort of do that anyway!!)

I want to see what it gets at G Force to give me an indication of the current power level - should be circa 450-470bhp - then I have decide whether to keep the car

At least the gearbox has lasted out fine to date - I've had the car since new in 1999............ basic sti5 (I remember telling myself after modding the Cossie to over 400bhp that I would keep the Scoob standard) - AND if it wasnt for the appalling handling on the sti I probably would have left it the same - Antilift kit is probably the best investment that I have ever made on the car!

powercrazed

I have front and rear roll bars, front and rear strut braces, anti-lift kit, rear camber adjustment bolts and 35mm lowered springs, all by whiteline. Had the geometry set up by Barrets Motorsport to their own settings. The drive home was amazing, felt more stable under braking, less twitchy when coming on boost but still with a slight tendancy to understeer. May try stiffening the rear roll bar and giving that a go.

Nathan

Fangoria

iTrader: (1)

Ah yes, its the rear camber bolts that I have - couldnt remember what they were called!!

Again - none of these mods are as good as an after market kit - but they go a long way for a good road set up

bgood

iTrader: (2)

OK so now I'm as per my comments earlier I have changed mine from the middle setting BUT having just checked to make sure mine is now on the end hole, i.e. to the left of where the bolt is in the below picture.



So according to what you have said and what it says on the Whiteline site too I am now on the softest setting yet the car is behaving just as described on the Whiteline site and by people here that have it on the hardest setting, i.e to the right of where it is in the above picture??

Very now, how the hell does that work then, the car is much better balanced, rear end doing more of the work, can feel the outside rear working when cornering now etc,etc ??????????

Fuzz

Have you tried it on the harder setting yet.
come back when you have and tell how it is compared to your current softest setting.


Andy

bgood

iTrader: (2)

Well that certainly confirms what I thought and mine is definitely on the softest, very strange, not sure when I'll have a chance to try it on the hardest but I'll certainly let you all know when I do

speedydaveb

iTrader: (1)

Glad to hear that the Whiteline ARB's are making a difference!
Looking forward to fitting mine after the 6-month wait for delivery.

I took the mounting brackets off my car this weekend and welded strengthening pieces to them to take my 24mm adjustable ARB - I decided to go for this as most people seem to run the 22mm on the stiffest setting and thought with this I should be able to have another setting if required.

At the front I am going to replace my 22mm non-adjustable (currently got standard ARB's on as Whiteline sent the wrong item (labelled up wrong!))

I'll let you know how I get on, driving with NO ARB on the back end is certainly a bit scarey!

(also got KYB AGX's, Eibachs, Whiteline drop-links, ALK and bumpsteer mod, set to 1°20' neg camber all round, 0° toe)

Phone Demon Tweeks for the ARB's they should be the cheapest, speak to Dave Featherstone and say you are from Scoobynet.

Nick Read

LOL I thought it was just me that spent most of the year driving an old banger as a second car because my supposed main motor was off the road more than on. Hence I bought a Scoob in the pursuit of reliability.

Anyway, those of you who've got the Whiteline ALK on, how do you find it? Worthwhile? And how much harder than fitting droplinks/ARBs is it to fit the ALK? And does it definitely need tracking sorted again afterwards?

I have GOT to get rid of this power understeer if it's the last thing I do. ATM I'm running 1 degree negative camber on the front, will a tweak to 1.5 or even 2 degrees do the trick?

One other interesting thing to note is that I reckon with the rear end being more active now, I reckon my tyres are going to last ten times longer. When I first had it, I was chewing up the outside front tyre on every roundabout and literally losing a mm of outside tread every time I went for a shakedown. Soon as I fitted the Whiteline ARB that uneven loading was just gone, totally. I now come back from a cross country recce and the tyres are barely warm, all round. None are hotter than any other and I've got even wear back again. SO in a way, spending all this money on suspension tweaks is actually saving money on rubber! (wlll have to remember that next time wife complains about huge boxes arriving from Demon Tweeks LOL)

speedydaveb

iTrader: (1)

Fitting the ALK is easy, you just need a big socket on the end of a long bar, I did mine on the driveway using a jack and axle stands. A crowbar is also useful to lever the wishbone downwards so that you can get the ALK on.

You'll have to ask one of the others whether it makes a difference or not, I changed too much at one time to realise what any one component on its own!!

911

It is great to see so many having a go at the suspension in search of the perfect set-up! It is endless fun

Forgive me for repeating my car's current spec, but this car does not have understeer:

Sti V3 chassis.
Whiteline:
22mm front bar, fixed rate.
Poly bushes everywhere
Noltec top mounts
Camber bolts
ALK
Lower front strut brace
No top front brace (!)
AST coilovers with 60N/mm springs @ 11/12 clicks from soft
Camber bolts
205 45 16 Kumho V700 soft compound @ 26 psi
Bump steer mod and Curtis @ Powerstation geometry.

Rear:
22mm bar on middle (after lots of testing)
Welded mounts
Solid drop links
camber bolts
Poly bushes everwhere including diff supports and subframe lock kit
Whiteline lower lateral rods
AST with 50N/mm rate @ 9/12 clicks from soft
Curtis set up at Powerstation
Kumho tyres as fronts @ 26psi

Can you see any understeer?
http://jusspress.com/day.php?userid=...entTime=123828
http://jusspress.com/day.php?userid=...entTime=134338
http://jusspress.com/daymainframe.ph...102&imageNum=3
try some of the other vid links too.

The best mods I did were the bars (front and rear) the Noltec's and the AST's with the Powerstation set-up.

Graham.

dazc

Can you see any understeer?

No, but maybe if you were going a bit quicker....lol

Good clips.
Daz

911

!
They were taken in the wet (yes they were) and i keep the chassis the same for wet and dry.
At that speed it scares me!
Always seems faster when you are in the car than sitting behind the fence
Graham.