Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

Just fitted Tein type HA coilovers and solid drop links front and rear and adjustable anti-roll bar (rear). (Totally amatuer fitting to me 2 days to do. Had some pain in the **** bits like seized bolts and bits breaking etc.)

Right... coilovers have adjustable topmounts on the front. Done away with ALL the std topmounts etc

Just need to clarify:

1. facing the car front on, I have postioned the topmounts to allow adjustment left/right. Is this correct? Is this for camber and should this be what is adjusted when having geo done?

2. do you need the tein c-spanner to adjust the damping rate? I assume leftly loosely applies here?

3. What are the best setting to use? Does anybody have the full whiteline and prodrive settings? From what I can gather I should be looking at max camber on fronts (1.5deg) with 1mm toe all round? How about the castor?

4. knocking from the rear...what could this be?

Your responses are appreciated.

Bob

911

Hello Bob!
Suspension getting serious!

Caster/camber:
Looking at front of car, left hand side.
The top mounts should be such that to give Max Negative camber the sleeve which the front damper strut bolts through is hard towards the centre line of the car, ie hard over to the right. Conversely, the right hand side unit should be hard over to the left.

For Caster:
The top mounts should both be hard towards the windscreen. I think that the Tein units use a slotted desighn for camber, so I doubt you will get much increase in Caster.

I doubt that you use the C spanner to change the damping stetting; the spanner is usually only used to set the ride height/corner weighting of each corner of the car.
Suggest you set the damping 50% hard front, 30% hard rear, and experiment from there. All depends on the spring rates on the suspension.

As for settings:

Go to www.whiteline.com.au and search about for the tech settings on their Project Cars, all the data you need is there.
I have the Extreme Hill climb car settings on my Sti v3, bit radical, but sure works!

Incidentally, I used the ex-Ralliart people in Dudley to do mine, great job done.

Regards, Graham.

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

yeah....just keep throwing money at it!

Castor/camber: according to the topmounts they are currently in the middle. I take it both should be moved to the towards the centre of the car (towards the engine)?

I guess I should have loosened the damp adjust when they were off the car.

The car at the moment is just plain mad. Its an unbelieveably hard setup. Feels like a track car on the road. Never thought it would be soooo harsh.

Bob

ozzy

Yep, moving the topmounts closer to the engine will cause the top of the wheels to be further towards the engine than the bottom = negative static camber.



Stefan

ozzy

There's some geo settings from Whiteline on Page 2 of this document - http://www.whiteline.com.au/docs/fac...s/ck_wrx94.pdf

And on this one if you have a newage model - http://www.whiteline.com.au/docs/fac...s/ck_wrx01.pdf

Stefan

911

Ozzy's done it all for you!
I have AVO coil overs on my Sti v3, smooth on the road, stiff (enough) on the hill climbs, and I change nothing for the 2 conditions.

Spring rates are very important, too hard makes the car crap.
I think mine are 350lb front and 80% of that rear. That relationship is important.
Tuning the dampers is trial and error.
I took mine to a track to fix them in safety. Took all morning.

911

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

thanks guys. Looks like the ideal fast road settings according to whiteline (touring) should be:

Front toe = zero
Front camber = -1.0deg
Rear toe = 1mm toe out both sides

Tyre pressures = 37psi front and 32psi rear

Think I'll go with these settings with possibly more neg if poss.

ozzy: diagram illustrating camber was helpful

How much are rear camber bolts and are they worth doing while I'm at it?

Bob

warrenm2

£25+VAT each and yes

ozzy

No worries Bob; pictures speak a '000 words and all that

The whiteline info on geo is interesting reading - http://www.whiteline.com.au/default..../faqsusp01.htm

As is this one - http://www.familycar.com/alignment.htm

Stefan

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

£59 for two bolts

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

good reading.

do I need castor settings also then?

Bob

ozzy

It's Impreza parts Bob; everyone knows you need to spend twice as much to mod them than any other car

Camskill do them for £25 for a pair. £50 will let you adjust the whole car.

I'm going to get some myself, but I'll try Dave @ Demon Tweeks as he'll give SN users a discount.

Stefan

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

£25 the pair is okay. Why do you need 2 pairs? The fronts already have camber bolts

what do you think of castor settings?

ozzy

Whiteline suggest max castor. I would read this as max positive castor, which means moving the suspension strut towards the rear of the car.

As Graham suggested the topmounts should be hard towards the windscreen.

Stefan

911

Bob:
Do fit camber bolts, if i were you, to all 4 corners. At £25 a pair that is a deal!
This will give the guy who laser aligns it a fighting chance to balance the car.
I know somw who fit 4 to the front to max-out the neg camber.
To kill understeer (yes please!) you must increase the (static) caster, this is why I fitted the MRT top mounts, the caster was DOUBLED would you believe. Dramatic effect.(wooden heavy steering but no understeer).

Do you need to send the D Tweeks order to anyone special to get Snet discount? About to send an order by email.

Scooby prices are silly. You can get the 'same' part for an Astra at half the cost, yet manufacture costs would be the same. Check the top mount costs in Demon Tweeks!

This used to apply to 911's too about 10 years ago until the next Hot Car came along (Scooby Impreza?)

Go for it Bob, spend all the $$$, but the car WILL be faster believe me.

911

ozzy

Graham's answered the bolt question.

Graham,

I'll dig out the contact# for you.

Stefan

ozzy

Graham,

Contact is Dave Featherstone (really nice chap). I spoke to him before New Year trying to sort a braided hose. He commented that I was the 3rd person from Scoobynet to phone him that day, so he seems to be getting plenty of business

Direct Dial 01978 663042 (mailbox out of hours)
Direct Fax 0870 6005749
E-mail davef@demon-tweeks.co.uk

Think we get a 15% discount.

Stefan

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

thanks for the details and contact etc.

Where do the replacement front camber bolts go? Do they just replace the existing camber bolts and/or do you use the old camber bolts to replace the non-camber lower bolt?

ozzy

Good question. Whiteline bolts give +/- 1.5 camber, so if you replace the originals then you'll get that adjustment (together with whatever your adjustable tops give you).

If you add them and keep the OE adjuster then I'd guess you could achieve even more. Graham would be better placed to say just how much more is achievable or just how much more you need.

Stefan

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

should be able to achieve 1.0 to 1.5neg on OE camber bolts , together with the adjustable topmounts? Dont want any more than this, so maube just a set for the rears will do.

Bob

Erik

911

is it adjustable top mount from MRT? I have option for 200USD for front Cusco but I think they are good only for camber adj.
And next question: Why must be rear damper about 30% stiffer when load and springrate is lower than front?
THX

swaussie

Bob, make sure you check the bolts on the pillows (topmounts) of the frount coilovers regularly. They have a tendency to work loose which could lead to one of the coilovers moving. Rattle in the rear is something you will have to live with, my Tein HA's seem to settle a bit after driving but I think they are worth putting up with a bit of noise for the improvement they give

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

Decided against buying camber bolts (for now anyway). Had the geo done and here is what we managed to get:

Front Camber: -1deg25mins/-1deg24mins (60mins in a degree)
Front Toe: Zero/Zero

Rear Toe: 0deg1min/0deg1min

This was done without touching the topmounts (left in a neutral position). I had already achieved -1deg25mins on one of the fronts, so I just got them to match that on the otherside.

Will get a full details up later.

Cost was £80 all in.

Cheers aussie, will do. How hard is your setup? Mine is stupidly hard, but i havent tried to adjust the damper settings yet. Ride hide is more or less min on the front and not much diff on rear. Not sure if I will be able to make it more streetable?

Floyd

iTrader: (9)

What spring rates are you running Bob?

F

911

Exactly, my coils are 'smooth' on the West Mids roads yet tight enough for competition.
Seems to me that almost all suppilers fit rock hard springs which detract from the performance at times.
If the dampers are on Max, the ride will be crazy.
Where did you get it done Bob?

911

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

No idea on spring rates. I'd assumed they were std ones which come with the Tein setup.

Brought them s/h and fitted them myself.

Havent had a chance to adjust the settings yet.

Bob

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

Have had a little mess around with the damping settings as it really was far too hard to drive on the road. Started off twisting the top bit of the strut (which does nothing), then gave up and had a look at the tein website. Found I needed to adjust damping rate using a allen key from top of struts. Very easy to do and I was rather sceptical as to the effect of finger turning an allen key a couple of times onto softest setting.

Result was a much softer ride than before. Was very oversteery and scary before but now very neutral, surefooted and confident. Still by no means anywhere near as soft as OE dampers but now firm but fair

According to the Tein website, the Tein Type HA damping rates go from N1 Endurance Race Spec to OE damping rate. Obviously you have to take into account the spring rates also.

Overall I'm very, very happy with the setup.

Bob

911

Yep, coil-overs can be made to work well in all conditions!
Just takes a bit of thought and experimentation.

Just ready for the Summer blats down your favorite roads............
911