Eibach's Rock!!!!!!
06 May 2000, 07:44 PM
#1
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I have always thought that the standard UK Scoobs handling was pretty average, but the grip was tremendous, a view shared my many other people.
There are various mods you can do to improve the handling, ranging from a completely free trye pressure increase to the fitting of a £1500+ fully adjustable suspension system.
I have been gradually working my way from the first, deciding to test each mod thoroughly and see if any more were needed.
After adjusting tyre pressures and having the geometry altered, I decided to do something about the excess body-roll of my car.
There were a number of options, anti-roll bars, dampers, or even a fully-adjustable jobby, but on Wednesday I went to Tyres Northampton and had a set of Eibach springs fitted.
What better place to test them than Donno...
WOW!
I cannot stress how much of an improvement these springs have made, especially for the relatively low cost.
I have retained my original dampers, as they appeared to be in very good condition still (somehow!).
Let's put it this way, I drove home on a fully legal set of part worn tyres that had also been fitted, when I normally destroy them in a couple of sessions! I drove the same as always
but the car just felt sooooo much more stable, more planted.
I was amazed at the improvement.
As I do a lot of track days, I was considering a fully adjustable set-up, but most of the people I spoke to with them just seemed to keep them at one setting, or alter a few clicks on track. I suppose you can personalise it a lot more, but for the money involved I couldn't justify it.
I wanted to keep it as simple as possible, and it doesn't get much simpler than springs.
On the road, the story is better still.
Understeer has all but disappeared, epsecially on roundabouts. I haven't checked the geometry since fitting them, but I'm happy with the way it is!
Ride quality has hardly been affected, only the worst surfaces show the differences.
The kit also lowers the car by 25mm, which doesn't sound a lot, but you can see it and the car has a much more aggressive stance now.
If any of you are considering doing anything to your suspension, my advice is to try these springs first.
CK1 has never been so good!
I will try a rear anti-roll bar soon, and possibly an anti-lift kit, but I'm undecided on that. At least they're fairly easy to remove if I don't like them!
Stef.
PS If anyone wants Tyres N'pton to fit some for them, call them on 01604 588599.
There are various mods you can do to improve the handling, ranging from a completely free trye pressure increase to the fitting of a £1500+ fully adjustable suspension system.
I have been gradually working my way from the first, deciding to test each mod thoroughly and see if any more were needed.
After adjusting tyre pressures and having the geometry altered, I decided to do something about the excess body-roll of my car.
There were a number of options, anti-roll bars, dampers, or even a fully-adjustable jobby, but on Wednesday I went to Tyres Northampton and had a set of Eibach springs fitted.
What better place to test them than Donno...
WOW!
I cannot stress how much of an improvement these springs have made, especially for the relatively low cost.
I have retained my original dampers, as they appeared to be in very good condition still (somehow!).
Let's put it this way, I drove home on a fully legal set of part worn tyres that had also been fitted, when I normally destroy them in a couple of sessions! I drove the same as always
but the car just felt sooooo much more stable, more planted.I was amazed at the improvement.
As I do a lot of track days, I was considering a fully adjustable set-up, but most of the people I spoke to with them just seemed to keep them at one setting, or alter a few clicks on track. I suppose you can personalise it a lot more, but for the money involved I couldn't justify it.
I wanted to keep it as simple as possible, and it doesn't get much simpler than springs.
On the road, the story is better still.
Understeer has all but disappeared, epsecially on roundabouts. I haven't checked the geometry since fitting them, but I'm happy with the way it is!
Ride quality has hardly been affected, only the worst surfaces show the differences.
The kit also lowers the car by 25mm, which doesn't sound a lot, but you can see it and the car has a much more aggressive stance now.
If any of you are considering doing anything to your suspension, my advice is to try these springs first.
CK1 has never been so good!
I will try a rear anti-roll bar soon, and possibly an anti-lift kit, but I'm undecided on that. At least they're fairly easy to remove if I don't like them!
Stef.
PS If anyone wants Tyres N'pton to fit some for them, call them on 01604 588599.
06 May 2000, 08:38 PM
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J.
Absolutely!
Charles.
I will possibly fit Billys, but I'll wait until my current dampers start to die first.
If Billys do make further improvements I'll be well chuffed.
I've heard from several sources that the original dampers are excellent though , which is why I didn't change them at the same time.
Stef.
Absolutely!
Charles.
I will possibly fit Billys, but I'll wait until my current dampers start to die first.
If Billys do make further improvements I'll be well chuffed.
I've heard from several sources that the original dampers are excellent though , which is why I didn't change them at the same time.
Stef.
06 May 2000, 10:15 PM
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Stef,
its interesting that you have had such good results changing the springs only.....
I was lead to believe that springs were matched to dampers and that changing the springs to a lower set-up whilst retaining origional dampers would result in adverse handling characteristics.....
Good to see you have achieved good, affordable results......
laters
stu
its interesting that you have had such good results changing the springs only.....
I was lead to believe that springs were matched to dampers and that changing the springs to a lower set-up whilst retaining origional dampers would result in adverse handling characteristics.....
Good to see you have achieved good, affordable results......
laters
stu
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08 May 2000, 09:20 AM
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Craig.
Yes you will!
See my post on the 22B bbs under the "Grey Imports" forum.
STi dampers are actually Bilstiens (so I'm told) so you should be a step further down the road in theory!
FWIW, I'm going for ALK and solid ARB links as well in the near future (which has also been suggested in that same post).
Incidentally Jerry, I fitted mine myself and it was pretty simple if you have a reasonable toolkit.
Neil.
[This message has been edited by Neil F (edited 08-05-2000).]
Yes you will!
See my post on the 22B bbs under the "Grey Imports" forum.
STi dampers are actually Bilstiens (so I'm told) so you should be a step further down the road in theory!
FWIW, I'm going for ALK and solid ARB links as well in the near future (which has also been suggested in that same post).
Incidentally Jerry, I fitted mine myself and it was pretty simple if you have a reasonable toolkit.
Neil.
[This message has been edited by Neil F (edited 08-05-2000).]
08 May 2000, 07:01 PM
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FWIW
I went from McRae to STi5.
McRae was (IMHO) far better handling wise . . power however is another matter.
What you experienced Stef does not suprise me, enjoy!
Just something else for the birthday wish list . . . (sigh)
Paul
I went from McRae to STi5.
McRae was (IMHO) far better handling wise . . power however is another matter.
What you experienced Stef does not suprise me, enjoy!
Just something else for the birthday wish list . . . (sigh)
Paul
09 May 2000, 02:47 PM
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Stef,
I'm interested to read this notice because Neil has been trying to talk me into making this modification for a couple of weeks. I think that I had concluded that the standard dampers were stiff enough to handle a substantial increase in spring rating, which only leaves me with one more concern....
As someone who knows how to drive sideways, do you have an opinion on how the car's mid-corner adjustability is affected? Is the car still as adjustable or do you have drive more smoothly now?
I'd be interested to hear what you think. Again, I think that this feature will remain largely intact, I just wandered whether you already had a definitive answer.
I'm interested to read this notice because Neil has been trying to talk me into making this modification for a couple of weeks. I think that I had concluded that the standard dampers were stiff enough to handle a substantial increase in spring rating, which only leaves me with one more concern....
As someone who knows how to drive sideways, do you have an opinion on how the car's mid-corner adjustability is affected? Is the car still as adjustable or do you have drive more smoothly now?
I'd be interested to hear what you think. Again, I think that this feature will remain largely intact, I just wandered whether you already had a definitive answer.
09 May 2000, 02:59 PM
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The matched dampers and springs thing is not a Prodrive rumour, its not even impreza specific, the problem with just lowering springs can be immense, although as Stef has found, if the car is over/under damped for the springs, changing them will make an improvement, but only if you are careful, go to far and you lose all the ride and handling characteristics of the car.
09 May 2000, 09:40 PM
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Tony.
I actually find the car more controllable through corners now, as it feels a lot more stable.
I put it to the test with a few slides at Donno on Friday, and found it much easier to control.
I think one of the reasons is that it's only been lowered by 25mm, enough to make a difference without adversely affecting anything.
TYRES NORTHAMPTON will supply and fit these springs for you for £200 if anyone's interested.
Well, well worth it IMHO.
Stef.
I actually find the car more controllable through corners now, as it feels a lot more stable.
I put it to the test with a few slides at Donno on Friday, and found it much easier to control.
I think one of the reasons is that it's only been lowered by 25mm, enough to make a difference without adversely affecting anything.
TYRES NORTHAMPTON will supply and fit these springs for you for £200 if anyone's interested.
Well, well worth it IMHO.
Stef.
10 May 2000, 02:43 PM
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Stef / Moray / Anyone else with Eibachs
Now that you have the Eibachs do you find that when reversing on full lock that the tyres scrap on the wheelarches?
If not, what size wheels do you have.
I have an STi with the std 16" wheels and when reversing into my very tight drive there is a reasonable amount of scraping noises coming from the front.
...perhaps I won't change them back to original ones afterall
Now that you have the Eibachs do you find that when reversing on full lock that the tyres scrap on the wheelarches?
If not, what size wheels do you have.
I have an STi with the std 16" wheels and when reversing into my very tight drive there is a reasonable amount of scraping noises coming from the front.
...perhaps I won't change them back to original ones afterall
)
10 May 2000, 04:27 PM
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Brilliant, a thread that is really productive.
As it happens a new set of springs were exactly what I was considering next. Its very difficult though I have had very mixed reviews, one tuner dissed them. Another (who by the way Stef thinks you are the next RB) said that they are a very worthwhile piece of kit.
This thread has now convinced me that Eibachs are the way to go.
Stef, thankyou for posting info about your findings, keep doing it you are a valuable source of info.
Right enough kissass, questions:
1. Can anyone fit them or is it a specialist job.
2. What wheels are you running and can the same be achieved with 17" ers (my wife would subscribe to this one he he)
3. Will I need to focus on the set up of the car more ala the Powerstation thread. Do the springs magnify the benefits of this set up?
Keep the info rolling in.
[This message has been edited by Scott J Davies (edited 10-05-2000).]
As it happens a new set of springs were exactly what I was considering next. Its very difficult though I have had very mixed reviews, one tuner dissed them. Another (who by the way Stef thinks you are the next RB) said that they are a very worthwhile piece of kit.
This thread has now convinced me that Eibachs are the way to go.
Stef, thankyou for posting info about your findings, keep doing it you are a valuable source of info.
Right enough kissass, questions:
1. Can anyone fit them or is it a specialist job.
2. What wheels are you running and can the same be achieved with 17" ers (my wife would subscribe to this one he he)
3. Will I need to focus on the set up of the car more ala the Powerstation thread. Do the springs magnify the benefits of this set up?
Keep the info rolling in.
[This message has been edited by Scott J Davies (edited 10-05-2000).]
10 May 2000, 06:52 PM
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RichB.
There is still plenty of clearance with my car on full-lock, definitely no chaffing here either.
I also use std 16" wheels.
Scott.
Cheers.
I suppose you could fit them yourself, but you'd need spring compressors and LOTS of time. The rear seats also need to be removed. I'd leave it to a garage personally.
As I've already said, I have 16" wheels on a UK car. I do not know whether the same improvements would occur on an import or a car with 17" wheels. Can't see why not though.
I still haven't had my geometry checked, but to be honest the car feels soooo good I can't see the point. I guess it depends what is was like before fitting the springs.
I hope to go to PS pretty soon to get the 'bump steer' sorted, so I'll get it checked then anyway.
Stef.
There is still plenty of clearance with my car on full-lock, definitely no chaffing here either.
I also use std 16" wheels.
Scott.
Cheers.
I suppose you could fit them yourself, but you'd need spring compressors and LOTS of time. The rear seats also need to be removed. I'd leave it to a garage personally.
As I've already said, I have 16" wheels on a UK car. I do not know whether the same improvements would occur on an import or a car with 17" wheels. Can't see why not though.
I still haven't had my geometry checked, but to be honest the car feels soooo good I can't see the point. I guess it depends what is was like before fitting the springs.
I hope to go to PS pretty soon to get the 'bump steer' sorted, so I'll get it checked then anyway.
Stef.
10 May 2000, 07:10 PM
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Scott.
I fitted my own and it took me about 5 hours (that was 1st time out with no manuals or gudance and included tea and sandwiches!).
The back seats on an STi take about 1 minute to remove (3x12mm bolts) and I believe you can see the strut tops on a UK car by just folding the rear seats down.
If you have access to a reasonable socket and spanner set, a trolley jack and some axle stands, and a little mechanical confidence, I'd recommend you have a go.
Incidentally Stef, I didn't need spring compressors as the dampers extended far enough on their own, but I had taken the precaution of hiring a set at a cost of £2.50 (yes £2.50) for the day (Kenlee's in Romford).
You will need the geometry re-set but I had marked up my camber settings well enough that they didn't need doing and only toe in adjustements needed to be set (less outlay at Elites if only toe in is done).
If anyone wants the lowdown on the procedure then mail me offline and I'll talk you through it.
You might also want to see my thread on the 22B bbs;
I fitted my own and it took me about 5 hours (that was 1st time out with no manuals or gudance and included tea and sandwiches!).
The back seats on an STi take about 1 minute to remove (3x12mm bolts) and I believe you can see the strut tops on a UK car by just folding the rear seats down.
If you have access to a reasonable socket and spanner set, a trolley jack and some axle stands, and a little mechanical confidence, I'd recommend you have a go.
Incidentally Stef, I didn't need spring compressors as the dampers extended far enough on their own, but I had taken the precaution of hiring a set at a cost of £2.50 (yes £2.50) for the day (Kenlee's in Romford).
You will need the geometry re-set but I had marked up my camber settings well enough that they didn't need doing and only toe in adjustements needed to be set (less outlay at Elites if only toe in is done).
If anyone wants the lowdown on the procedure then mail me offline and I'll talk you through it.
You might also want to see my thread on the 22B bbs;
10 May 2000, 07:49 PM
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Rear seats on UK car are held in total by 5 bolts, so just a 5 minute job.
You can't see the strut tops just by folding the seats -- but if you remove the bit of plastic trim running across the top of the frame behind the seatback you can see them and just get your hand in. Depends how much access you need or knuckle scraping you can bare! :-)
Paul
You can't see the strut tops just by folding the seats -- but if you remove the bit of plastic trim running across the top of the frame behind the seatback you can see them and just get your hand in. Depends how much access you need or knuckle scraping you can bare! :-)
Paul
11 May 2000, 07:36 AM
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I'm not sure what they offer in the way of 5 dooor springs, you'd have to seek advice on that one.
Elites at Rainham, Essex stock Eibachs (www.elitedirect.com) although I bought mine from Falklands (www.falkland.co.uk, somewhere in Scotland).
Incidentally, the Falkland guy (George as I recall) says that the Eibachs supplied for mine were developed for STi's. It seems that there may be a difference in those supplied for UK and Jap spec cars due to unsprung weight differences (ally wishbones etc.)
Alternatively it may just have been a load of flannel to keep me happy!
Either way they are fine.
Neil
Elites at Rainham, Essex stock Eibachs (www.elitedirect.com) although I bought mine from Falklands (www.falkland.co.uk, somewhere in Scotland).
Incidentally, the Falkland guy (George as I recall) says that the Eibachs supplied for mine were developed for STi's. It seems that there may be a difference in those supplied for UK and Jap spec cars due to unsprung weight differences (ally wishbones etc.)
Alternatively it may just have been a load of flannel to keep me happy!
Either way they are fine.
Neil
11 May 2000, 09:21 AM
#24
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Stef / Moray / NeilF
Thanks for the info, Like NeilF said, I am wondering if Eibach do different types of spring, the springs I have were on the car when in came in from Japan, the box they came in (with the original ones in) is the same as illustrated in the back of the Demon Tweeks catalog that came with this months EVO.
The noise is only when reversing or going forwards at very low speed, my drive requires inch perfect manouvering to avoid the wall and fence in front and squeeze between my gate posts and I need some full lock. Reducing the lock by an eighth of a turn stops the noise.
After checking out the inner skin of the wheel arches it seems as though some of the clips have broken or poped apart and the skin doesn't fit as well as it seems it should.
No J turns involved and I am running standard 16" wheels and I now can't remember exactly what tyre it is but I am fairly sure its 205/50R16
Thanks for the info, Like NeilF said, I am wondering if Eibach do different types of spring, the springs I have were on the car when in came in from Japan, the box they came in (with the original ones in) is the same as illustrated in the back of the Demon Tweeks catalog that came with this months EVO.
The noise is only when reversing or going forwards at very low speed, my drive requires inch perfect manouvering to avoid the wall and fence in front and squeeze between my gate posts and I need some full lock. Reducing the lock by an eighth of a turn stops the noise.
After checking out the inner skin of the wheel arches it seems as though some of the clips have broken or poped apart and the skin doesn't fit as well as it seems it should.
No J turns involved and I am running standard 16" wheels and I now can't remember exactly what tyre it is but I am fairly sure its 205/50R16
12 May 2000, 09:48 PM
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Dont wish to sound like a killjoy but i went for the eibach on 17's 18 months ago. I too was raving about what a difference they made to the handling, mainly becuase it sorts the excessive roll/dive/squat. HOWEVER, the more you get used to the car the more you become aware of the dampers struggling to control the car, and there seems to be a lot of bumps coming through due to the car being underdamped. Mine was a 98wrx so it may be different on newer cars with harder dampers. I remember driving along a badly surfaced B road, and i couldnt lose a bog standard Ford focus, as the ride was so crashy on my car i thought it was going to fall to bits. The up side was that on smooth surfaces it was fantastic..just our Manchester roads i guess. I was advised to go for whiteline ARBs and ALK, so as they are pretty cheap then i think that is the way i would go next time round...cheers
19 May 2000, 09:15 AM
#27
Hello everybody,
Just read the thread and it has made my mind up, definately gonna get Eibachs fitted.
Couple of questions though. Nobody (i think anyway) mention how much these springs lower the car (i don't want to go too low), so how low do you go (20mm on UK car)?
Also i have a WRX and was told by ABP in Crewe that they only do the springs specifically for the UK turbos but they go on fine for WRX but would not lower it a great deal (is the MY93 WRX any lower than a UK car, i didn't think so?). Any comments?
Also ABP will reset the geometry (front and rear) to fast road spec (a combination of sidc settings and Prodrive i was told) for £90. Does this sound reasonably?
Thanks Tone.
Just read the thread and it has made my mind up, definately gonna get Eibachs fitted.
Couple of questions though. Nobody (i think anyway) mention how much these springs lower the car (i don't want to go too low), so how low do you go (20mm on UK car)?
Also i have a WRX and was told by ABP in Crewe that they only do the springs specifically for the UK turbos but they go on fine for WRX but would not lower it a great deal (is the MY93 WRX any lower than a UK car, i didn't think so?). Any comments?
Also ABP will reset the geometry (front and rear) to fast road spec (a combination of sidc settings and Prodrive i was told) for £90. Does this sound reasonably?
Thanks Tone.
19 May 2000, 11:42 AM
#28
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Hi,
I drive a MY98 and fitted Eibach Springs (Prokit) 4 months ago (-25mm ~ -30mm).
My car has 17'' Speedline ST2s wheels with 215/40/17 S02PP tires.
Until now I have no problems with the wheels touching the wheel arches or something alike.
The handling of the car is something better (less rollover, slightly more stiffness) but I have to agree with David in that after a while you start feelling the struggle between the dampers and the springs, mainly on bumpy surfaces. The improvement is more of a trade-off situation and IMHO is far from perfect... maybe on a MY99 or MY00 the new and harder dampers work better with the Eibach springs...
Anyway, my next step is going to Bilstein shocks. The Bilsteins and the Eibachs seem to be projected to work perfectely with each other.
Gustavo
I drive a MY98 and fitted Eibach Springs (Prokit) 4 months ago (-25mm ~ -30mm).
My car has 17'' Speedline ST2s wheels with 215/40/17 S02PP tires.
Until now I have no problems with the wheels touching the wheel arches or something alike.
The handling of the car is something better (less rollover, slightly more stiffness) but I have to agree with David in that after a while you start feelling the struggle between the dampers and the springs, mainly on bumpy surfaces. The improvement is more of a trade-off situation and IMHO is far from perfect... maybe on a MY99 or MY00 the new and harder dampers work better with the Eibach springs...
Anyway, my next step is going to Bilstein shocks. The Bilsteins and the Eibachs seem to be projected to work perfectely with each other.
Gustavo
19 May 2000, 07:14 PM
#29
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Tone.
If you read my first post it does say 'The kit also lowers by 25mm'!
As I've said, I may fit Bilsteins, but at the moment the car feels great. Perhaps when my current dampers start to fail I will, although they have done 52,000 miles in 15 months and feel/look fine.
Stef.
If you read my first post it does say 'The kit also lowers by 25mm'!
As I've said, I may fit Bilsteins, but at the moment the car feels great. Perhaps when my current dampers start to fail I will, although they have done 52,000 miles in 15 months and feel/look fine.
Stef.
22 May 2000, 05:56 PM
#30
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As an alternative to Billies, why not check out the Koni Adjustable shocks. Revolution were raving about the Eiback / Koni set up in this monthe Revs, and they were running 18's.
James.
James.