TopBanana

Looking for some top-notch dampers to replace my Cuscos. Must be at least bump/rebound adjustable. Will be hillclimbing next year so they need to be competitive.

Are the Ohlins SUS7A00 / SUS8A00 any good, or are they capitalising on their motorsport name with an average product?

How about DMS? In the 40mm piston configuration they're quite affordable and the rally boys on NASOIC seem to rate them.

How much is Proflex, is it really that good?

Subie Gal

For competition, i'd recommend you avoid the DMS 40's...

If you choose DMS, go w/the 50mm's.... the 40's have had soooo many issues. (i.e. wearing out too soon, sticking, clunking, bending....)Overall they are not very well rated... nor do they have the adjustability of the DMS 50mm's.

I have used the DMS 50's on my Rally cars for the past 2 years... they've not let me down yet... and are the most affordable in their "class"..... Ohlin's and Proflex will run you a LOT more do$h than DMS will and I'm not convinced it's worth it.

hope this helps a bit.
Jamie
www.subiegal.com

mark@wrx

Townend Garage are the UK dealers for DMS. We have the 50mm on our STi6 rally car and very good it is. Costs about £2k plus VAT. We had Proflex on a previous car and that was also very good, but had to be maintained regularly as it was proper competition stuff. IIRC that costs about £3k plus VAT for the scoob.

TopBanana

Hmm, sounds like a goer. Thanks guys!

Presumably Townend can rebuild them when the time comes?

911

jlanng, are you realy going to hill climb?
I have done this in my STiV3 for 3 years now , race in the Midlands. I made the mistake of going cheap and went for AVO (yes, not too good...)Friend has 50mm DMS on his RA, FANTASTIC!
Might see you on the hills next season? You will need 450 bhp to catch those EVO's though..........
Graham.

TopBanana

Hi Graham. That's the plan Sent off my license application form today in fact.

Never done any sort of competition before, and I figured this would be way cheaper than rallying! Do you run in a series or just do a few events? I'm going to try to stay down south as much as possible as commuting long distances isn't much fun in the RA.

Can't hope to compete against the 450bhp boys, but with the right suspension and brakes I at least hope to learn the ropes. That said, the FMIC and fuel upgrades in the new year should help

TopBanana

Quite pricy though I got quoted £2000 + VAT, but these guys seem to be disposing of some:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hreadid=459559

Including 10% import duty and 17.5% VAT that comes to just under £2000... hmmm.

911

I think you will have a LOT of fun in an RA with a few tweeks. I found that getting the chassis to work right is far more important than bhp, and that's where I've done a lot of work on my STi.
In the Midland Hill Climb Championship there are some specific rules to watch out for, and if you do any Championship read the regulation very carefully.
We can use slicks now, and tyre chioce is very very important!

If you are not going to come and blow my doors off, then I'm happy to share my 'experiences' as I try to develop the car on a reasonable budget and keep the 450 bhp young guns at bay (bloody hard work)
This sport is very infectious, hope you have realised this!

Regards, Graham.

Subie Gal

I know of a guy who has a set of 50mm's STREET valved...
not rally valved...

for sale here local to me.

he'd probably let them go for $2300 USD

what's that? like $1300 UK + shipping/duty?

let me know if you're interested and i'll speak to him.
i'd even work out how to ship them to you m'self if you want.

just trying to help a fellow racer-type out

cheers
Jamie
www.subiegal.com

Mark A

iTrader: (1)

Graham

Can you list your suspension setup in order of the biggest improvement to your times. E-mail me if your worried about the competition reading this.
And no I've not bought any Kuhmos V70 yet. I'm awaiting to find out if I can use them in the Tunbridge Wells/SEMSEC sprint series.

Mark A

911

Happy new year Mark!
No probs with spilling the beans on the suspension.
The mods in the order of most effective:

1 Best tyres you can find/afford.(and at the right pressures!)
2 Uprated springs on coil overs, keep rear spring rate 80% of the front, golden rule!Spend good time sorting the damping settings.(Don't buy AVO's)
3 Whiteline anti roll bars, steel drop links, 22 mm diameter, rear set to stiffest or mid position.
4 MRT Front Caster/camber top mounts. Gives 4 deg positive caster.
5 Bloody good suspension set-up by someome who KNOWS scoobys. I followed to the letter the Whiteline settings on their web site. These setting are RADICAL, and need...
6 Camber bolts front and rear on the struts.
7 Power flex bushes EVERYWHERE in the suspension and rear diff cage. Diff cage essential to stop the whole rear end moving about on those race winning launches! (I'm not kidding)
8 Whiteline lower subframe brace. Does very little I think but looks goooood! Cheap to buy so why not?
9 Bit unfair this, but the Whiteline ALK comes last only because all the above overtakes them. I still have mine on the car though.

Finally, relearn to drive the car, be ready for the vibrations to have increased (dump the radio, saves weight...)and be ready for Zero understeer and GRIP like you always wished to have!
You are then ready for phase 2: LSD's, 400bhp and a Lateral gearbox, only another £5000/8000 to go....
Bloody stupid game this but what a blast!

The car is fab on the road, tyre wear is even and true, and brakes as straight as a draughtman's rule...no tramlining (unless you have bought SO3's).

So there, you can get it all from Demon Tweeks except for the MRT mounts which come from Town End Garage.

Any further questions just ask. Hope to see you and you Hot Car this year!

Regards, Graham.

Mark A

iTrader: (1)

Graham,

Is there any point in buying camber bolts if you buy adj top mounts and adj rear lower links ?
Thanks for the info provide, I've been reading the whiteline settings with interest.

Mark A

911

Yes! It gives the guy setting the car-up a lot of adjustment to get the angles to a value and even both sides, the MRT top mounts are set at max neg camber and max positive caster, the fine tuning is done on the camber bolts.
Any other questions please ask.
The radical caster settings come into play when cornering hard on tight bends, ie hill climb type bends!
Graham.

johnfelstead

Graham, as you are changing the top pickup point of the suspension to alter caster, isnt your setup illegal as the strut is an integral component of the suspension geometry and one of its pickup points?

TopBanana

I think you can change pickup points in class 11 (modified saloon > 2000cc)

johnfelstead

Just picking up on something he posted that said he couldnt move pickup points.

Mark A

iTrader: (1)

I think I might need to read the rules again regarding modified road going saloons.

Which I have now. MSA blue book section L 11.3 " repositioning of suspension pick-up points is permitted" for MRGS but not for RG production saloons.

Mark A

TopBanana

That's what I thought. Fairly certain Graham is running in the modified saloons class, as he's mentioned being up against 450bhp Evos. eek!

911

You are all right!
The Blue book is one thing, but the Championship regs are THE rules and can refer to the Blue book.
I run in the so-called Modified Saloons over 2000cc and the general rule is the mounting of the lower wishbone to the body which should be stock, that makes an ALK illegal!!

Eek is one expression that is used for the EVO, BUT you should see the 1000Kg Audi short wheelbase Quattro with 700 bhp @ 2.2 bar go......

Chelspeed

Depends what you count as pick up points, where the strut enters the top mount or where the top mount bolts to the shell. I'd think the latter so then you are OK.

911

Chel, you are correct. I have not moved the top mount turret pressing in the shell. Fortunatly, the hole to allow the STI mount through is very large, and the MRT top mount design makes full use of the hole diameter!
The Cusco type is very limited. Check the MRT site and you will see why when comparing the designs.
Thoses guys in Oz are cunning!

Graham.

911

In amongst all this discussion, there seems to be reports of AVO struts FAILING on the road, let alone the track, gulp!

I've since looked at the Scoobysport struts, the new ones on their site. These do seem good value for £££££ and engineered by someone who understands (see the site).
Anyone tried these units yet?

Graham.

TopBanana

Graham, I was tempted by these but put off by the fact that they're not adjustable.

johnfelstead

the new scoobysport kit is 16 way adjustable.

it does seem good value for money if it works as advertised.

johnfelstead

Could you use a Spec C bottom arm assembly Graham? That would give you much more caster increase than an ALK as it moves the entire wishbone forward by offsetting the bush in the front pickup point and having a longer rear section.

911

No need to John, the MRT top mounts afford a HUGE range of settings as the top strut pivot slides freely untill locked in the desired place bu clamping the top pivot plate with the usual 3 top mount bolts. Can send a photo if you wish (guess who had a new digi camera for Xmas)
You can set huge camber and caster with these units, cheap too ( from TEG)Makes the Whiteline ALK redundant.
Graham.

Mark A

iTrader: (1)

Send them to me, I'd like a look.

Mark A

johnfelstead

sure, i would be interested. How do you resolve the change in toe that is going to occur when you alter the caster? have you marked up the track rod ends so you can adjust those at the same time to get your toe back? or dont you adjust on the day?

911

John, please, this is hill climbing!
Few of the 'road car' classes change settings other than dampers through the weekend.
Firstly there is nowhere flat to put the car! Secondly there is no way to test the change before the real runs which last all of about 50 seconds, start to finish.
I think it is a game of compromise, and once the car feels good you leave it. Chasing the last tweek is where I think I am now, I have done just about everything published to the suspension and the more I push the car another problem arises, like sometime lifting an inside rear wheel like a hard cornering Golf! Only does it on on bend and all hell ensues then...
Do you do tarmac stages too? Keeping all 4 wheels on the deck is a real issue now with the chassis lifting wheels all over the place.
Graham.

johnfelstead

I used to compete in tarmac rallies a long time ago, before the Impreza was a twinkle in FHI's eye. Saying that i am doing the NW stages in a Spec C in February, in the wrong seat though.

I have been running race and rally cars for a long time, i learned an aweful lot about what works and what doesnt when i helped build a prototype Esprit V8 mid engined race car and took that from last on the grid to pole position in a very competitive technically race series.

It's worthwhile marking up things like track rod ends and anything adjustable so you can experiment a bit, even without access to flat beds on the day. With the race car you often find the weather conditions or track conditions alter what settings you need to get the car balanced, it's a simple process to make a change mid qualifying and then see how that works if you have prepared the car so you can measure what changes you make acurately. I am sure using this idea in hillclimbing would be worthwhile.

Of course you need to understand how the changes you make are going to alter the handling, and that comes from testing plus a good grasp of the theory behind the reality.