Kippax

when i load the brakes for a corner the back end goes light and unsteady as though it's suffered a detrimental change in suspension geometry.

now the eibachs and STi shocks are wey to soft and i intend to get rid but i thinks there is something else here.

any ideas?

stu.

Mo

Mmmmm.......weight transfer?

Kippax

clearly but even me missus's clio doesn't have this bad a 'weight transfer' problem.

David_Wallis

Mine does that... makes you feel a bit uneasy when breaking hard, going down the gears and about to point it into a corner... really have to be back onto the power around a corner to make it feel right...

What is yours 4dr / 5dr Uk / WRX / STi ??

Anybody?

David

Kippax

Nice one Dave, your description was perfect. I'm sure you know how the car feels if for some reason you need to brake mid corner

Really firm suspension would delay the effect but not cure it.

It's an 4 door STi5 with Eibachs (way too soft for me)

Stu.

[Edited by Kippax - 6/11/2002 10:49:03 PM]

IWatkins

Kippax,

If you break quite hard, say on a fairly big sweeper bend at a little over the limit () does the back corner of the car which is on the outside of the bend feel like it is trying to climb up over your shoulder ? (best description I can think of).

Cheers

Ian

Kippax

Ian,

That's the one m8, feels like somethings come loose and it takes a bit to settle. Interesting your reference to the outer wheel though. If anything it's the wheel nearest to the corner centre but yes, the swaying effect may oscillate.

All the time the front wheels feel sweet and the steering is OK. That's why it's such a worrying sensation 'cos the steering won't correct it.

Stu.

Mo

Why would it? When approaching a corner in the Clio are you travelling as fast or braking as aggresively as you do in the Impreza, I wouldn't of thought so.

Ensure your braking is completed way before turning in and the car will be balanced when you do turn in. If you're having to brake mid bend then your either driving beyond your vision or trying to take it too fast.

We may all be driving high performance AWD vehicles but driving dynamics still apply.

dowser

Normal lift-off oversteer - correct alignment, more negative camber, rear strut brace (espec. on wagon), etc. will all help but you're talking about a general law-of-physics weight trasfer type thing as stated above.

Braking or lifting off on turn in is a *very* good way to set up a drift - when you improve your suspension it gets less messy when this happens and you can actually use it...in the dry anyways, lol!

Richard

Kippax

Mo,

My 5GTT never behaved like this. It had Koni's and uprated springs (well firm) and I loved it. Coilover kit needed methinks.

Dowser,

Respect.

Stu.

David_Wallis

Sorry, but I do approach the corner as quick in my old car and it slowed quicker.. (Mildly modified 106 )

How is a rear strut brace going to sort this... and I know about lift off oversteer etc.... Have bought uprated front arb and droplinks.... next will order uprated rear arb and drops... will change geom. and buy AntiLift Kit... Then Coilovers (before geom.)

Still dont like it... thought it may be down to me swapping to four pots and the backs not doing owt..

David

Pete Croney

Almost all older cars and all non abs cars actually have a valve linked to the suspension that reduces rear braking, as the weight transfers forward. If the rear wheels are seriously unloaded, then there's no point trying to stop the car with them.

Suspension is the only answer to controlling the chassis when huge braking forces are applied to the front wheels. Stronger springs will prevent the forward roll and stiffer dampers will limit the speed at which the front can dive.

A 6 pot kit can, if you progressively load up the brake pedal, have the standard front suspension on the bump stops. Lowering springs will not help this and if it is on the bump stops, it is extremely likely that the abs will activate on the front wheels.

Anti roll bars and bushes will also do nothing to stop this forward weight transfer, as they only affect sideways body roll.

If the weight is not allowed to settle completely when you turn in, the the unweighted wheels will have much less ability to control lateral loads too.

Over the years, we increased the front spring rates on Leda kits to cope with the extra forces that the latest brake kits generated.

David_Wallis

Cheers Pete, but doesnt really explain why its doing it... I understand about the valve.. as Its there as when you have more weight in the boot / rear seats you apply more braking force to the rear... If I bought a set of coilovers (Not nec. Leda) would setting the rear to be lower help this, as this was one of the things which I did to my pug to sort its characteristics..

Im not totally convinced that subaru decided that it should be like this.. Suppose I could clean up / strip the rear brakes... Could do with some pads on the front now I think about it as well..

Also If I pull the ABS fuse out and try braking hard the back end trys to overtake me

Think I'll start saving... Will also put bushes on everything.... see if I can get this thing to even remotely handle...

David

nigelward

David

Surely you could make something for £150?

David_Wallis

once i work out what the problem is

David

Pavlo

Sounds like the rear tyres are toeing out.

Paul

David_Wallis

Ive had geometry checked...

David

Kippax

David,

I think Pavlo has got it right. The front dips, the rear lifts and the back wheels point in at the bottom so the car feels unsteady.

Definately cured by stiffer suspension.

Attu

The best way to cure it is to fit pre 98 2 pot calipers, these are so bad at braking there is no chance your back end is going to feel light from your hard braking
Trust me as a 2 pot owner I know

Andy

PS If you want to swap you four pots for my two pots

David_Wallis

Nah... think Ill keep my four pots with braided lines

never drove it with 2pots took em off before i put the car back on the road..... dont think that much to the four pots... going to get some EBC redstuff pads in and see what they are like.

So everyones car should behave like this then?

David

[Edited by David_Wallis - 6/16/2002 9:32:45 PM]