Martin Jol/sportsmanship
24 April 2006, 10:27 AM
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Martin Jol/sportsmanship
I can take Arsenal not beating Spurs, and I can just about take them scoring a goal by playing on while 2 players are down - there is no rule for this so hey-ho. I accepted it and moved on....
BUT - what I can't take, and would be as annoyed if this was ANY other manager doing this to ANY other team.....what Martin Jol did and said.
I woke up sunday morning to see this little revelation on Sky Sports News.
2 Arsenal players down, Carrick just about to put the ball out of play (his discretion),........BUT then the Sky Sports microphones pick up Martin Jol screaming "PLAY PLAY PLAY" at Carrick........tut tut foooocking TUT!!!
Now, in 10 years time you could buy a Thesaurus, look up "bad sportsmanship" and this could, and probably should be used as a perfect definition.
We all know Wenger, and his "I didn't see it" etc etc but all managers do that. However a manager, actually shouting an instruction to his team to take advantage from another teams disadvantage is the appitamy of bad sportsmanship. I can only assume it was done cos they couldn't score a proper goal past us.
Not happy.
However, we deserved nothing more than a draw.
Jol though, is well out of order, and hopefully Karma will come back and bite him on the **** for that.
Wakner!!
BUT - what I can't take, and would be as annoyed if this was ANY other manager doing this to ANY other team.....what Martin Jol did and said.
I woke up sunday morning to see this little revelation on Sky Sports News.
2 Arsenal players down, Carrick just about to put the ball out of play (his discretion),........BUT then the Sky Sports microphones pick up Martin Jol screaming "PLAY PLAY PLAY" at Carrick........tut tut foooocking TUT!!!
Now, in 10 years time you could buy a Thesaurus, look up "bad sportsmanship" and this could, and probably should be used as a perfect definition.
We all know Wenger, and his "I didn't see it" etc etc but all managers do that. However a manager, actually shouting an instruction to his team to take advantage from another teams disadvantage is the appitamy of bad sportsmanship. I can only assume it was done cos they couldn't score a proper goal past us.
Not happy.
However, we deserved nothing more than a draw.
Jol though, is well out of order, and hopefully Karma will come back and bite him on the **** for that.
Wakner!!
24 April 2006, 10:38 AM
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what a load of crap! They ran into each other so tough. They did exactly the right thing and took advantage of the situation. I didn't hear Wenger admit his player fouled the Spurs player for there goal.
24 April 2006, 11:01 AM
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The referee is there to stop the game in the event of a bad head clash etc .......Leave it to the players to make things up and you will have the cheating *******s going down like stunned mullets everytime someone gets clean through on goal...... Its a mans game, or at least it was.
Gary
Gary
24 April 2006, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Gutmann pug
The referee is there to stop the game in the event of a bad head clash etc .......Leave it to the players to make things up and you will have the cheating *******s going down like stunned mullets everytime someone gets clean through on goal...... Its a mans game, or at least it was.
Gary
Gary
Well said
The Gooners 2 players looked at the play and then one of them fell back on the grass!!!
Can't stand either team or their respective managers BTW
I am off to Cardiff on the 13th
AND WON'T BE WEARING RED
24 April 2006, 11:25 AM
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Why not? neither player looked badly injured and the ref didn't stop the game so why shouldnt he shout ''play play play''
REF's job, not the players or the managers........ NUFF SAID
REF's job, not the players or the managers........ NUFF SAID
24 April 2006, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Gutmann pug
Why not? neither player looked badly injured and the ref didn't stop the game so why shouldnt he shout ''play play play''
REF's job, not the players or the managers........ NUFF SAID
REF's job, not the players or the managers........ NUFF SAID
Yes, but you are talking about rules and laws to which there are none in this instance.
For a manager to shout PLAY PLAY PLAY "BECAUSE" players are down, it's opportunism based on bad sportsmanship.
It's not against the rules.....but it doesn't make it right.
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24 April 2006, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Senior_AP
Yes, but you are talking about rules and laws to which there are none in this instance.
For a manager to shout PLAY PLAY PLAY "BECAUSE" players are down, it's opportunism based on bad sportsmanship.
It's not against the rules.....but it doesn't make it right.
For a manager to shout PLAY PLAY PLAY "BECAUSE" players are down, it's opportunism based on bad sportsmanship.
It's not against the rules.....but it doesn't make it right.
what about the foul for your goal? I didn't see much sportsmanship there as he hacked away at the back of the other players legs.
24 April 2006, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by **************
And the fact Carrick was about to kick the ball out and it was Jol who effectively stopped him from doing this. Cheating w4nker and a fat ****** of a liar too.
If anybody can find a better definition of bad sportsmanship then I wish you good luck.
24 April 2006, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Senior_AP
Carrick was gonna knock it out. Jol took advantage from our disadvatage.
If anybody can find a better definition of bad sportsmanship then I wish you good luck.
If anybody can find a better definition of bad sportsmanship then I wish you good luck.
24 April 2006, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by STi wanna Subaru
Was the injury caused by the fault of any Spurs player? No. It was bad play from your boys which lead to them running into each other. They just capitalised. Good football from Spurs. You're just bitter that your team is failing and you'll end up with no CL football next year and your best player gone.
in reality your angry that Tottenham have dropped points recently and you have failed to capitalise.
24 April 2006, 12:22 PM
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If this was the Wigan manager doing this against Middlesboro I'd be dissapointed and say it was wrong.
However, yes of course I'm bitter and aggrieved because it happened to our team.
However, yes of course I'm bitter and aggrieved because it happened to our team.
24 April 2006, 12:25 PM
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Let's start at Highbury and the controversy over Robbie Keane's goal in the 1-1 draw at Arsenal that saw Spurs edge closer to sealing fourth place.
Arsenal clearly felt Spurs should have put the ball out with two of Wenger's players down injured.
I have to beg to differ, and I feel Wenger should apologise to Jol for labelling him a liar over his insistence he never saw the incident.
The pictures are conclusive. Jol did not see it. He was looking at Edgar Davids all the time and Wenger has got it wrong.
I now feel an apology is in order from Wenger. People will understand the stakes were high, and things are said in the heat of the moment that are sometimes over the top.
I speak from experience. When my Liverpool team-mate Jim Beglin broke his leg in a challenge with Gary Stevens in a League Cup tie at Everton, I was asked what I thought of the tackle.
My response was: "Apart from being a mile high and an hour late it was fine."
I was speaking right after a game when I'd seen a mate badly injured by what I thought was a bad tackle. It was heat of the moment stuff on my part and it was later sorted out.
The issue of putting the ball out of play when someone is down injured is a thorny one - I believe Spurs were completely within their rights to play on at Highbury.
The injuries were not bad, referee Steve Bennett had checked, and was happy for play to continue.
I must stress I am not talking about Saturday's situation, which was a genuine collision between two players, but there is a growing fear that this recent piece of sportsmanship is open to abuse.
If there is a clash of heads or a very obvious injury, play should not go on, but there may be cases where if a player goes down and the opposition are attacking, they are not going to get up in a hurry and may hope play is stopped.
You can bracket it with diving. They are seeking to gain an unfair advantage.
Arsenal were not doing this on Saturday - but Jol still deserves an apology from Wenger.
Alan Hansen - BBC
24 April 2006, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by STi wanna Subaru
[SIZE=2]
Alan Hansen - BBC
Alan Hansen - BBC
If you're saying that 2 Arsenal players on the deck, concurrent to a clear opening, concurrent to Jol bellowing "PLAY PLAY PLAY" whilst he ws 10 feet away was merely coincidence to the incident and he was "actually talking to Davids", then well ok that's your opinion.
24 April 2006, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Senior_AP
Carrick was gonna knock it out. Jol took advantage from our disadvatage.
If anybody can find a better definition of bad sportsmanship then I wish you good luck.
If anybody can find a better definition of bad sportsmanship then I wish you good luck.
Ooooo remember the time when Arsenal should have thrown the ball back to the opposition a few years ago but Kanu/Overmarrs (from memory) scored
Its all so bad when it suits but with players like Reyes getting diving bonuses, incidents like the above, the tackles by Fabregas/Flamini earlier this season etc I cannot believe Wengers has the audacity...Anyhoo its all about opinions and its great for me as I'm always right
24 April 2006, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Abdabz
My definition of bad sportsmanship was when the two arsenal players collided, the last of the two to get up feigned an injury in the hope play would be stopped. Aresnal then claim the game should have been stopped. Doesnt get much lower than that...
Ooooo remember the time when Arsenal should have thrown the ball back to the opposition a few years ago but Kanu/Overmarrs (from memory) scored Its all so bad when it suits but with players like Reyes getting diving bonuses, incidents like the above, the tackles by Fabregas/Flamini earlier this season etc I cannot believe Wengers has the audacity...
Anyhoo its all about opinions and its great for me as I'm always right
Ooooo remember the time when Arsenal should have thrown the ball back to the opposition a few years ago but Kanu/Overmarrs (from memory) scored
Its all so bad when it suits but with players like Reyes getting diving bonuses, incidents like the above, the tackles by Fabregas/Flamini earlier this season etc I cannot believe Wengers has the audacity...Anyhoo its all about opinions and its great for me as I'm always right
Overmars/Kanu Vs Sheffield Utd, the game was re-played and Wenger accepted it was wrong. Kanu, I can make a case for but Overmars should have known better. the game was re-played, all was well. So not entirely relevant.
Am I saying that Arsenal players do not dive??? No. Am i saying Wenger is a saint? No.
I am saying i find Martin Jol (not Carrick or Spurs team) to be unsporting. With that, I'm not saying that Wenger is always totally sporting?? Why must you comopare everything.
I (me, myself) found what Jol did unsporting. Wenger's opinion on this is a seperate issue, he could say it was fine what Jol did but I would still consider it bad sportsmanship.
Are we understanding now?? I found Jol unsporting?? why do I get comeback "well in 1999 Marc Overmars did this etc etc" ?!?!
Last edited by Senior_AP; 24 April 2006 at 12:48 PM.
24 April 2006, 12:49 PM
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Its all so bad when it suits but with players like Reyes getting diving bonuses
Could you please enlighten me to the team you support so I can see what a perfect team of players you have and to check that none of them have ever dived in a game?
24 April 2006, 01:09 PM
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Reyes is a highly frustrating player, dives way too much. Does that detract from Jol being a bad sport?? No. so not sure what Reyes has to do with this particular incident??
It's strange how if i question another manager the responses are attacks on Arsenal players?? Not sure of the relevance.
It's strange how if i question another manager the responses are attacks on Arsenal players?? Not sure of the relevance.
24 April 2006, 02:11 PM
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Pot calling the kettle black I think. You post about the unsporting behaviour of a manager, but have never posted a thread about the unsporting nature of diving Arsenal players. That is why it's relevant.
Really good!
Really good!
24 April 2006, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by ReallyReallyGoodMeat
Pot calling the kettle black I think. You post about the unsporting behaviour of a manager, but have never posted a thread about the unsporting nature of diving Arsenal players. That is why it's relevant.
Really good!
Really good!
Now, does that mean that I cannot comment on the conduct of anyone or anything associated to football? Even though I accept that we have players that are prone to make the most of things?
If everybody worked on that premise then very little would ever get said or done in this world.
The term pot calling the kettle black is not appropriate here. If however, Wenger had done this, and I had supported him, THEN I accused Jol of bad sportsmanship for committing the same offence - then, and only then could you reference any pot caling kettle black.
I'll say it again, one last time for the slightly thick headed amongst you.
In calling Jol a bad sport I am NOT:
1. Saying Arsenal's players are all saints.
2. Agreeing with Wenger on thsi point.
3. Saying wenger is a saint and has never himself been anything other than perfect.
I, as a person found Jol to be utterly out of order. My thoughts would be exactly the same if I was watching 2 different teams as a nuetral.
HTH.
Last edited by Senior_AP; 24 April 2006 at 02:37 PM.
24 April 2006, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Reality
Wenger should have twatted the fat **** then said "sorry - didn't see you there you fat ****"
Wouldn't go that far. lol
But hopefully Karma will play it's part (not that I belive in it) and bite Jol on his ****.
Before this game, I liked Jol, thought he was a decent bloke overall. His actions just showed bad sportsmanship and utter unprofessionalism. His juvenile excitement got the better of him hence why he now will refuse to admit the "PLAY PLAY PLAY" was directed at Carrick.
24 April 2006, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Senior_AP
Wouldn't go that far. lol
But hopefully Karma will play it's part (not that I belive in it) and bite Jol on his ****.
But hopefully Karma will play it's part (not that I belive in it) and bite Jol on his ****.
24 April 2006, 02:52 PM
#29
Originally Posted by Senior_AP
His juvenile excitement got the better of him hence why he now will refuse to admit the "PLAY PLAY PLAY" was directed at Carrick.
"The pictures are conclusive. Jol did not see it. He was looking at Edgar Davids all the time and Wenger has got it wrong."
24 April 2006, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Reality
They'll either **** up the run in or we'll win the CL and they can play in the uefa cup