messiah

Often fancied having a go at an event and decided I'm gonna go for it - think a local event is due end of september.

Need training advice - I do a bit of Orienteering / Fell Running, although I get shin splints running on hard surfaces and my mountain bike is past it - and I'm crap at swimming, which is the first thing I'm going to try and improve.

Anyone got ant tips / good contacts or sources of info? A beginners training schedule would be handy too...

ozzy

Haven't tried it myself, but I did train with a couple of serious, amateur triathletes. You don't need to train on hard surfaces to get your running fitness up to par.

Personally, I'd try some smaller beginner ones to see how you can cope with the 3 different disciplines. I would stick to your fell running for general fitness as it'll build muscle endurance/strenght which will help more than running on the flat will ever do.

Get your pronation checked by a podiatrist. I used to suffer terribly with shin splints, but some custom orthotics sorted those. Running on road will give you sore, aching knees and hips anyway but you probably knew that already.

Check out the British Triathlon website for details of a local club. Best getting in touch with them for some details on beginners comps and training schedules.

Stefan

PeeOne

<trumpet blowing> I have done three Ironman distance triathlons including the world championships in Hawaii last october </trumpet blowing>

As a guideline, for ironman, i do base training over the winter months and then build up to a 4.5 month peak performance period to get me to the start line. You basically want to get to a point about 3 weeks before the race where you have near as damn it killed yourself. Your body then recovers and you are in peak condition for the race. This however may be overkill for a shorter distance race.

Your biggest problem sounds like it may be the swimming. If its a sprint distance, you only have 750m or so to go through, so you can probably just put your head down and struggle through it. May be an idea however to get a swim coach to look at your technique, as swimming with a bad stroke takes a lot out of you for the next two legs.

In terms of giving you a training program, its something that i could help you devise certainly. For doing a short course triathlon, i would suggest something along the lines of 2 swim sessions, 2 run sessions and 2 bike sessions per week. This could be done one every day and may look a bit like this:

Monday long swim
Tuesday long run
Wednesday sprint bike
Thursday sprint swim
Friday Sprint run
Saturday Long bike
Sunday rest/light weights

This is just an example. Before starting sprint work you would have to do some moderate sessions to get your stamina up-the sprint work is really only for the last 25% of the program. If you want a bit of help and encouragement then give me your e-mail and i will do my best. Get ready to get addicted as well by the way-i thought one ironman would be enough, but here i am three later planning my fourth in canada next year!

messiah

Hawaii? I think I remember watching that on Sky...

Swimming is deffo my weakest link - don't use my arms much in fell running! I'm pretty sure there's a small local event in Cockermouth once a year in september, something like 500m swim / 10k bike / 5k run - and I'm looking at that to be my indroduction. Started going out on the mountain bike this week, although could do with a new one as the gears have had it, one of the front cogs couldnt be engaged so i had no way of getting up to a quick speed.

How much os a difference can a good bike make?

Going to carry on with my running, and will have a look at getting some new insoles or new trainers (doctors said i should get a new pair every 6 months).

I don't think I've got a particularly strong event, but I quite fancy the challenge of it - ever tried adventure racing?

Jasoon

messiah

What about joining a local gym?
The instructors there should be able to set up a good training program for you.....

I'm currently trying to complete my concept 2 million meters on a rowing machine currently up to 770,000 meters trying to do about 8000 meters a day as well as weight training.

messiah

I always seem to give up on the rowing machine - not keen on stuff thats really repetetive - which is why I do orienteering - you're thinking more than you're running most of the time.

Intending on joining gym (work about 30meters away from one!) but got a barbell & dumbells at home, so working with those for the time being.

Jasoon

I don't mind the rowing machine too much ,but I do have my off days......
But I'm quite high up in the Concept 2 world rankings with my times so my good days must be good

I used to do between 26-30 miles a day on a turbo trainer now that is really repetitive.....

The good thing with the gym is the fit females that go ,they certainly get you training harder

ozzy

Forget a gym, unless you just want to just eye up the talent. Stick to the basics and train hard. A few of the lads at my Hill Running club have competed in the Karrimor adventure races. Seems to me that the only problems they've had have been weather-related, especially in Scotland. I personally wouldn't be worried about fitness to try those and all I do is cross-country and hill running + circuit training for general aerobic fitness and upper body strength.

Add some weight to your hill runs to build leg strength/endurance and increase your fitness fast. Start with just 5-10lbs or so and work your way up slowly. I wouldn't go above 30lbs unless you fancy joining the military

You don't need to be superman to do these long events, just in very good shape and have the mental toughness to keep going. Of course you need to be fit, but everyone has to start somewhere so don't be put off by the idea of something like an Ironman. I knew a few lads that did these and they didn't seem superhuman to me. The elite guys are a different matter, but they've had years of serious training behind them and should appear superhuman compared to the rest of us.

Stefan

messiah

lol @ Jasoon - the gym letch

me too mate

Did circuit training a while ago, and found tough but enjoyable - great for all round fitness but had to give it up due to work, wouldnt mind getting back into it though. Quite fancy swimming again too - but with the school summer hols coming finding a pool without a pack of kids messing around will be tricky.

Jasoon

not quite a gym letch......only being friendly

messiah

Usually like the step machine - i like the varying programs and also it helps with the fell running - as well as the incentive of not letting the steps hit the ground!

Think I'd benefit a lot from working my torso a bit - I tend a slouch a bit, and often suffer from an aching back when bent over running up steep inclines - what would be recommended to "straighten me up" so to speak - started doing the bicycle crunches last night - and bugger me I felt the strain!

Jasoon

Have you been on one of the machines that simulate rock claiming? (cant think of the proper name of the machine)

They are supposed to be a very intense work out ,only been on the one in the gym I go to one and only for about 5 minutes and I was na**erd

messiah

I have a dodgy left wrist - and I've also had all the w@nking jokes about it

Tried rock climbing before - doesnt half get to your forearms, never felt anything like it - mind you, you can't half grip stuff when your 15 ft up - rope or no rope!

Will keep an eye out for one of those machines.

Jasoon

How do you manage on a mountain bike with a dodgy wrist?

I think the machine is called a verser climber

PeeOne

yeah versa climber is the right term-there are a few at my gym and they are very very good for building fitness. As has been said before, you don't really need a gym membership for triathlon. I use my gym in the off season as it has a pool and very good facilities, but when i am training for the ironman, its all out on the roads and in the local lido. If you can afford membership of a decent gym, it is worth it-mine has things like a jacuzzi and steam room which are great for when you get back off those long, long bike rides.

Doing an ironman, just as with any long distance event is 90% mental and 10% physical. Everyone i was racing with in hawaii was very fit, but that will only get you so far. When its 100 degrees and you are in the middle of a lava field at mile 100 on the bike, the only thing that keeps you going is your mind! If you are serious about this, i can highly recommend my coach. He can be found at

www.markallenonline.com

He charges about 15 quid a week, but for that you get a 6 times ironman world champion make your training program, and then answer all the questions that you have. With it being your first time, it would be a good idea to get in touch with someone who knows what they are doing.

cactus jim

[QUOTE=

In terms of giving you a training program, its something that i could help you devise certainly. For doing a short course triathlon, i would suggest something along the lines of 2 swim sessions, 2 run sessions and 2 bike sessions per week. This could be done one every day and may look a bit like this:

Monday long swim
Tuesday long run
Wednesday sprint bike
Thursday sprint swim
Friday Sprint run
Saturday Long bike
Sunday rest/light weights

![/QUOTE]

i like the idea of this program, could you elaborate slightly on the distances. what constitutes a long swim and long bike? I am a beginner with a fairly good level of fitness that would expect to do 45 mins plus each session.

if done in a gym, would you do light weights each session?

ozzy

That depends if you want to do short, normal or Ironman triathlons??

Ironman would consist of around 3.8K swim, 180K bike, 42K run.
Short course Triathlon is something around a 800m swim, 35K bike, 7.5k run

So a long bike ride for someone doing short course stuff might be 20-30 miles, whereas someone competing in Ironman may easily do 100-miles.

I would decide what your goals are and work training times around that. No point in 45 min sessions when a race is going to last 8hrs.

Stefan

cactus jim

sorry, hope i am not taking this off topic or hijacking.

i was wondering what the difference in distances the ironman and short courses were. thanks for posting the distances.

i would be focusing on short course.

messiah

I have tendonitis in my left wrist, as well as a broken scaphiod bone and a partially broken wrist (it's a long story) - I'm ok pushing / pulling weights stright up or down but have trouble when i have to keep my wrist locked at a set angle, I can only just manage to hold a full pint glass.

Short course is what I'm aiming at - I think boredom would probably hit me long before physical exhaustion did on an ironman, although I'd like to reach the level of fitness required to finish one.


At the moment I reckon I'd benefit best from swimming, I was going regularly up until a few months ago with the other half - but now she's 7 months pregnant she won't go near a public pool. I was using the swimming to build up my aerobic capacity - was there for 45 mins at a time and I would try to beat the number of lengths I did the previous week - I showed that i definately needed to improve my upper body strength as just got knackered really quick - although this may have been due to sticking to the breaststroke, which I did because I just cant seem to use pec-decks at the gym!

PeeOne

Right to elaborate on the training method that i use. For Ironman Switzerland last year, I started base training in January. This was 7 months or so before the ironman in july. Base training distances involved gradually working up to half ironman distance over a period of about 4 months. I was quite fit before christmas, and this got me ready to face peak performance.

Peak performance takes you from generally fit to being race fit, and the window that i use for this is 18 weeks. Now for the terminology. I start peak performance doing about half distance, so the long swim would be 50% of 4km, the long run would be 50% of 26 miles, and the long bike would be 50% of 112 miles. As well as these sessions, you have moderate sessions which would be about 35% of the distance, and at a lower heart rate. There would be no sprint sessions as of yet as these don't start till about 2 months out, but they are replaced by tempo sessions that are very easy and probably about 10% distance (the swim i always keep at about 50%).

The above is a VERY VERY basic overview of what is a complicated subject. Ontop of this, you cycle each discipline throughout the month. The first week you may pound the bike, go easy on the run and do average amounts on the swim. The second week you would have the bike as easy, the swim as hard and the run as average. Then the third week, you pound the running, relax in the swimming and do average exersion on the bike. The fourth week you rest all three by not pushing yourself too hard on any. Repeat as neccessary!

There have been whole books written on this subject, so me trying to sum it up in a few paragraphs has probably created more confusion than anything else. How far are you going and what is the date that the triathlon is on? If you post this info, i can make you up an example week. If you want me to help you in more detail, its probably best to pm me-i'm always glad to help people just starting out in tri-we were all novices once! Oh yeah, get a heart rate monitor as well-its the triathletes best friend! Always train to heart rate and never to distance. I know this conflicts with what i have described above, but i was putting that more as an example...

messiah

When you train the 3 disciplines like you say - do you do them back to back like in a competition or do them seperately?

think the comp is end of september, but got a baby due start of september so best intentions might go out of the window...

how much of a difference can the bike make? just wondering if training on a heavier bike will give better performance if you switch to a lightweight one for the comp?

PeeOne

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you-i have been away. Right, you don't train the disciplines back to back, except for doing brick sessions towards the race day. If you had an 8 hour bike for example, you would do 7hours 30 on the bike and then put your trainers on and go for a 30 mins run. This is to get your legs used to making the transition. This is the only time you would train two disciplines back to back though.

The bike can make a big difference yes, but to be honest, as this is your first tri and you are not going to be competing for the winners podium, you are best off just going with what you can afford, or better still maybe, borrow. Tri bikes can go from a couple of hundred quid to about 5k, and the more expensive, the lighter and generally stiffer the frame tends to be. The bike i race on is about 2k's worth, but this is something i have built up over a few years, adding a bit here and there when i can afford it-no point in going over the top for your first tri!