Fulham71

10 January 2005, 12:48 Andy Tang vbmenu_register("postmenu_4168135", true);
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#1 Surrey Rolling Road Day - Saturday 19th March 2005
The first Surrey Scoobies Rolling Road Day has been booked for Saturday 19th March at Surrey Rolling Road based in Camberley.

Date: Saurday 19th March 2005
Start time: 9.30am
Cost: £30 per car (with 18 or more)/£35 per car (with 17 or less)
Location: Directions and map here / Streetmap link
Running Time: Approx. 15 minutes per car
Expected finish time: 3pm
Food: Maccy D's and Sainsburys are a few minutes drive away
Misc: They can cope with autos but the rollers will *only* cope with 900bhp!

01. Andy Tang
02. Fulham71
03. Ickle Jen
04. Tim_K
05. SMG
06. andypugh2000
07. NYK STi8 [Needs to run early]
08. G4Tyrant
09. Miniman
10. Dyney
11. Stuart Knight [Needs to run early]
12. daveo
13. smiff99 [Needs to run early]
14. stevem
15. GTAUTO
16. Neilo
17. DavidLewis (in the banana coloured mobile smoke generator)
18. MattPiece [Needs to run early]
19. DPat
20. avalaugh
21. neonfury
22. 555JRA

Reserve List

01. Spanky
02.
03.
04.
05.

Remember to polish your cars, thanks to Fulham71 (Paul) we now have magazine coverage for this event!

From Surrey Rolling road:

We will start at 9.30am.

When people arrive, they need to sign a disclaimer, and the order these are handed to us will be the running order of the day.

Please do NOT queue the cars in front of the unit, this is very important, Our neighbours dislike it.

Please can you park your cars OUTSIDE the estate on the road leading to it. The road will be deserted, as will the estate, but there is a certain amount of 'car park politics' going on. 5 or 6 cars actually in the estate waiting to run is ok though.

It should be a nice day, tea and coffee are provided.

Please check your tyre pressures, coolant level and oil level. This is really important.
Last edited by Andy Tang : 17 March 2005 at 15:53.


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Fulham71

19 January 2005, 21:16
Andy Tang
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#21

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Sorry all places are now full.

It's "dead man shoes" now! I'll only take 5 reserves (as I hate disappointing people!) and it will probably be late notice if someone drops out.

Sorry it's taken so long, but I've only just got back from a business away from an Internet connection!!

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Last edited by Andy Tang : 19 January 2005 at 21:18.

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19 January 2005, 21:36
Dyney
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#22

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You mean the works Pi$$ up

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20 January 2005, 13:53
Andy Tang
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#23

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Something like that!!!!!

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21 January 2005, 21:47
smiff99
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#24

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Could you put me on the reserve list please ?

Cheers...Jon.

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22 January 2005, 01:21
Andy Tang
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#25

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Jon you have been added to the reserve list. I will let you if a place comes up.

Thanks
Andy

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26 January 2005, 14:59
Andy Tang
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#26

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List of runners updated.

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27 January 2005, 16:41
ScoobyJawa
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#27

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartop
Is it worth asking my brother in law if he fancies coming along ? He's got a Skyline GTR that is supposed to be good for 400bhp


I wouldn't. Already been to them on a rolling road day and they had to take my GTR off because they had no idea what settings to use and didn't want to break the car

Until they have a lot more experience I won't trust them with my GTR.

Nice chaps though!

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27 January 2005, 16:54
Andy Tang
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#28

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List on first post has been updated.

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14 February 2005, 10:50
Jay m A
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#29

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Andy I'm afraid I'm going to have to pull out Sorry mate (again!)

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14 February 2005, 10:55
Andy Tang
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#30

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No problem, you've made the reserve guy happy!

Running list updated.

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22 February 2005, 14:48
Andy Tang
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#31

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BTTT as there is less than 4 weeks to go.

Remember to polish those cars.... thanks to Fulham who has arranged for a magazine to cover this day!

If anyone has a preference to the time they want to run, please PM me.

Note to self: Buy lots of donuts (as promised on Surrey Scoobies)!!!

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22 February 2005, 17:12
Bartop
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#32

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Gutted

Sorry Andy - I'm gonna have to pull out due to a business trip

Hope you get a replacement ok...many apologies..

Sounds like it's gonna be great - will keep an eye out for the next one...!

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22 February 2005, 18:04
Andy Tang
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#33

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No problem!

You've probably made someone else happy!

OK chaps, there's a free space!

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24 February 2005, 22:20
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#34

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Looking forward to this, fingers crossed the clutch holds up

AP

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25 February 2005, 00:10
Andy Tang
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#35

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BTTT - 2 spaces are now free!

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25 February 2005, 09:50
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#36

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BTTT again to fill the spaces !

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27 February 2005, 08:59
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#37

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let me know what you guys get figures wise ?, i went along with a mate yesterday to this rr with the intregra club and i put me scoob on for a laugh ,first off it broke one of the straps !!, not sure if the had the right settins entered to do the scoob on the day cos they were in fwd mode , anyway the bhp was down on what i thought it would be ?.

seemed good lads though

Dan

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28 February 2005, 12:31
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#38

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back to the top !

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28 February 2005, 14:33
moomin
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#39

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01. Andy Tang
02. Krade
03. Fulham71
04. Ickle Jen
05. Tim_K
06. SMG
07. andypugh2000
08. NYK STi8
09. WRXPete
10. G4Tyrant
11. Miniman
12. Velryba
13. Dyney
14. Wibble
15. Stuart Knight
16. daveo
17. Wylie_Coyote
18. smiff99
19. tucker
20. stevem
21. Drumsterphil
22. GTAUTO

Reserve List

01.
02.
03.
04.
05.



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28 February 2005, 18:55
Andy Tang
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#40

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I think a couple of the guys are maybes as they need to do some work to their cars.

Worth getting your name down as a reserve if you are interested.

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28 February 2005, 18:57
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#41

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01. Andy Tang
02. Krade
03. Fulham71
04. Ickle Jen
05. Tim_K
06. SMG
07. andypugh2000
08. NYK STi8
09. WRXPete
10. G4Tyrant
11. Miniman
12. Velryba
13. Dyney
14. Wibble
15. Stuart Knight
16. daveo
17. Wylie_Coyote
18. smiff99
19. tucker
20. stevem
21. Drumsterphil
22. GTAUTO

Reserve List

01. Smart1971 (If I can get someone to drive the car down there !
02.
03.
04.
05.

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28 February 2005, 19:26
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#42

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01. Andy Tang
02. Krade
03. Fulham71
04. Ickle Jen
05. Tim_K
06. SMG
07. andypugh2000
08. NYK STi8
09. WRXPete
10. G4Tyrant
11. Miniman
12. Velryba
13. Dyney
14. Wibble
15. Stuart Knight
16. daveo
17. Wylie_Coyote
18. smiff99
19. tucker
20. stevem
21. Drumsterphil
22. GTAUTO

Reserve List

01. Smart1971 (If I can get someone to drive the car down there !
02. Neilo
03.
04.
05.

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28 February 2005, 20:44
Andy Tang
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#43

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The list on the first page has now been updated!

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02 March 2005, 12:34
Fulham71
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#44

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

to the top

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03 March 2005, 15:34
Stuart Knight
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#45

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Any chance of running early on in the day? I have to go to London in the afternoon

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03 March 2005, 18:24
moomin
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#46

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You're up Neil

Can't see that being a problem Stuart

01. Andy Tang
02. Krade
03. Fulham71
04. Ickle Jen
05. Tim_K
06. SMG
07. andypugh2000
08. NYK STi8
09. WRXPete
10. G4Tyrant
11. Miniman
12. Velryba
13. Dyney
14. Wibble
15. Stuart Knight
16. daveo
17. Wylie_Coyote
18. smiff99
19. Neilo
20. stevem
21. Drumsterphil
22. GTAUTO

Reserve List

01. Smart1971 (If I can get someone to drive the car down there !
02.
03.
04.
05.

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03 March 2005, 22:28
Andy Tang
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#47

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No problem Stuart, turn up early and we'll get you on first if that helps!

Running list updated on the first post. Also more reserve places are available!

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Last edited by Andy Tang : 03 March 2005 at 22:32.

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04 March 2005, 12:04
Andy Tang
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#48

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At least one more space left, and plenty of reserves space if there are any last minute drop outs!

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05 March 2005, 09:44
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#49

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Thanks Andy, I'll be there early

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06 March 2005, 17:22
U WOT!
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#50

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Sorry to say i won't be able to make this one. Doesn't look like the car will be quite ready, might pop down in my mums corsa as its just down the road. Sorry. Wylie_coyote

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06 March 2005, 19:54
Andy Tang
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#51

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The usual last minute drop outs has freed up some spaces!

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07 March 2005, 19:54
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#52

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Andy, would you allow a fwd diesel golf.....I'd take bets on not having the lowest torque results (its probably got around 25% more than my old scoob had and she was no slouch )

Seriously though...would you allow me to take a place? You'd all have to wear face masks for the smoke.

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07 March 2005, 21:18
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#53

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which mag is covering this andy? you mentionned it on the first post....

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07 March 2005, 22:02
Andy Tang
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#54

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David,

No problem mate, I'm sure you'd show up a few of the guys with your torque figure!!

Neil,

It's a new magazine that is due out in August and we are due to be in the first issue!!

I'm sure more will be revealed on the day!

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07 March 2005, 22:07
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#55

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thats cool, are we expecting any big power from the cars coming down?

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07 March 2005, 23:05
Andy Tang
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#56

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Big power cars from what I've heard, I'd say there are five cars in the list that will perform well!

A couple of 2.5's, a couple of 2.2's and a well tuned 2.0.

I know they are using different turbos, ECU's and mappers, as well a car with laughing gas if it's mapped by then!

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07 March 2005, 23:38
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#57

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cool ill try not to disgrace myself then!

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08 March 2005, 01:49
DavidLewis
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#58

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Please count me in then, Andy

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08 March 2005, 09:48
Andy Tang
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#59

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Don't worry chaps, I should have the lowest powered car there!!

I have an automatic (high transmission losses) Forester S-Turbo (174bhp standard) with 101k on the clock and completely standard except for a backbox!!

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08 March 2005, 09:56
MattPiece
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#60 Add me on

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Andy,

Stick me on the ressie list as I'd love to be there. However, my car is up for sale so if it sells prior to that I obviously cant go!!! Also if possible (I feel a bit cheeky here...), I'd like an early slot too as I've got appointments after lunch??

Cheers

Matt
STi v5 Wagon

Fulham71

08 March 2005, 13:05
Andy Tang
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#61

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Matt,

I'll stick you down on the reserve list, drop me a PM say on Friday to let me know if you still have the car (and that you don't have buyers due that evening) and I'll move you into the running order if there is a space!

Cheers
Andy

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09 March 2005, 10:28
Velryba's chick
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#62

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Andy,

I'm so sorry but we will have to cancel

We have to sell the car

If you will have prolems filling our space then let me know.

Thanks
Kate

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09 March 2005, 10:35
Andy Tang
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#63

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No problem Kate.

I'm sure we'll see you guys soon, whatever car you are driving!

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10 March 2005, 00:53
DavidLewis
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#64

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Tang
Don't worry chaps, I should have the lowest powered car there!!

I have an automatic (high transmission losses) Forester S-Turbo (174bhp standard) with 101k on the clock and completely standard except for a backbox!!


HA HA that'll be less than my diesel Golf

P.S. Am I in??

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by DavidLewis : 10 March 2005 at 00:55.

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10 March 2005, 08:50
Andy Tang
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#65

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David,

You're in, have a look at the first post to this thread of the people running!

So it still looks like I have the least power! Not only will you make more BHP, but you will make my torque figure look tiny!!!

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10 March 2005, 08:51
Fulham71
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#66

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Depends if I get my smart on or not

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10 March 2005, 08:52
Andy Tang
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#67

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Taken from first post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Tang

20. DavidLewis (in the banana coloured mobile smoke generator)




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10 March 2005, 08:56
Andy Tang
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#68

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Paul,

Have you got a driver for your banana coloured car yet?

I would have suggested Caroline but she is too big to fit in it!!!

I'm coming bottom if we start looking at power to weight ratios as well!!!

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10 March 2005, 17:15
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#69

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Only if I take the baby seat out

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10 March 2005, 17:22
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#70

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Andy gonna have to let my run go clutch is deff on its wayout and I wont have it sorted by the 19th
Wibble also has too work that day so cant it

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10 March 2005, 18:34
Andy Tang
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#71

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Lots of spaces free.... post if you are interested!

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11 March 2005, 09:24
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#72

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BTTT

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11 March 2005, 19:27
Fulham71
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#73

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Anyone else up for this ?

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11 March 2005, 23:40
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#74

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We have one more:

quo (CTR powered supercharged Exige)

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12 March 2005, 11:20
Daveo
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#75

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Is this gonna be a 'banana car' day out?

I'm used to my banana coloured wagon being fairly unique!!

Dave


Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Tang
Paul,

Have you got a driver for your banana coloured car yet?

I would have suggested Caroline but she is too big to fit in it!!!

I'm coming bottom if we start looking at power to weight ratios as well!!!


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13 March 2005, 16:25
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#76

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Don't worry, the other banana coloured cars are a Golf TDI and Smart Roadster.

Only two spaces left and they may be taken by Monday!

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13 March 2005, 17:49
DPat
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#77

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'll take one - getting the car mapped tomorrow, so want to know if it's NE good
What time slot do I get, 12:00 would be good for me

DPat

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13 March 2005, 18:02
avalaugh
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#78 room 4 a lil 1

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got a bit lost with the posts,if there is still room id love to come,so please let me know what i need to do in regards to payin thanx

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13 March 2005, 22:59
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#79

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DPat, about midday is fine, we should have all the early runners out of the way by then!

avalaugh, still room for you. If you want to run earlier, turn up early, or else just turn up when you are ready. Payment will be on the day to the rolling road company.

All spaces now taken, we are down to reserve spaces again!

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14 March 2005, 07:52
DavidLewis
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#80

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Tang
David,

You're in, have a look at the first post to this thread of the people running!

So it still looks like I have the least power! Not only will you make more BHP, but you will make my torque figure look tiny!!!



Cool, but sorry if the RR is out of action for 30mins afterwards while they clear the smog

Fulham71

14 March 2005, 09:36
avalaugh
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#81

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excellant ill b there but not till later on as i got work am,c u all soon

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14 March 2005, 14:18
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#82

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Any chance I could go about 30 minutes later? I will probably be there on time for my original slot, but 30 minutes would make sure. Maybe swap be with one of the runners that wants to go early?

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14 March 2005, 14:55
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#83

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Don't worry no time slots, they cause more of a headache as they run behind or run ahead, then someone running a few minutes late will miss or have to wait for a slot.

If people need to run early, turn up early.

If you want to run later, then have a lie in.

Hope that 15 people don't turn up *just* before you do!

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14 March 2005, 16:26
MattPiece
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#84

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Tang
Matt,

I'll stick you down on the reserve list, drop me a PM say on Friday to let me know if you still have the car (and that you don't have buyers due that evening) and I'll move you into the running order if there is a space!

Cheers
Andy


I'm 99% certain of being there. There's no viewings this week planned and nought for the w/e - anyway, I'm interested in attending the RR to see how the car is running, so any prospective buyer will have to wait . See you early Sat.

Cheers

Matt

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14 March 2005, 17:25
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#85

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No problem Matt, I've already moved you to the main running list after our conversation yesterday!

Sorry I didn't have a chance to chat, but I have to go rescue a friend who had broken down!!

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15 March 2005, 11:48
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#86

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BTTT as it's this Saturday! People are more than welcome to spectate!

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15 March 2005, 22:40
555JRA
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#87

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Any chance of being added to the list?

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15 March 2005, 22:49
Andy Tang
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#88

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I added you to the reserve list at the same time you posted!

I spotted your post on www.surreyscoobies.co.uk

There may be last minute drop outs, or we can try and sweet talk the rolling road to run a couple of extra cars!

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15 March 2005, 23:18
Andy Tang
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#89

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Moving up the list!

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16 March 2005, 10:14
Andy Tang
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#90

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If anyone can not make the day, please let me know as there are people chomping at the bit to run!

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16 March 2005, 14:05
jonnie c
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#91

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I think that I'll pop along to spectate!

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16 March 2005, 14:11
Andy Tang
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#92

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Nice one Jonnie, there will be a fair few of the Surrey regulars there!

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16 March 2005, 14:31
Andy Tang
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#93

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From Surrey Rolling road:

We will start at 9.30am.

When people arrive, they need to sign a disclaimer, and the order these are handed to us will be the running order of the day.

Please do NOT queue the cars in front of the unit, this is very important, Our neighbours dislike it.

Please can you park your cars OUTSIDE the estate on the road leading to it.
The road will be deserted, as will the estate, but there is a certain amount of 'car park politics' going on. 5 or 6 cars actually in the estate waiting to run is ok though.

It should be a nice day, tea and coffee are provided.

Please check your tyre pressures, coolant level and oil level. This is really important.

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16 March 2005, 18:45
Fulham71
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#94

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back up

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16 March 2005, 20:49
Neilo
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#95

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

have you guys used this RR before? does it compare to PE/G-Force?? I know its dyno dynamics.....

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16 March 2005, 21:34
Andy Tang
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#96

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry Neil, I haven't run there before, but I believe that the wheel bhp figures are similar to PE, but the flywheel figures may be a little lower. I've heard of a Porsche GT3 being accurate to within a BHP or two on the Surrey Rolling Road.

No real way of knowing unless someone has run on both rollers.

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16 March 2005, 21:48
Dyney
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#97

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I have but might actually have it set up properly this time

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16 March 2005, 22:22
Neilo
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#98

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no problem guys, was just curious. Ive been to a few and they were all within 4 of each other.....so we shall see

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17 March 2005, 12:37
Andy Tang
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#99

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Magazine coverage has been confirmed!

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17 March 2005, 13:11
Neilo
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#100

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oooh with who with who!!

got to try and make the top 5 with my standard car.....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by Neilo : 17 March 2005 at 13:14.

Fulham71

17 March 2005, 13:43
drumsterphil
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#101

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Andy,

Gonna have to pull out so over to the first reserve!!

Rgds
Phil

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17 March 2005, 14:51
Fulham71
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#102

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17 March 2005, 14:56
drumsterphil
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#103

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Don't you start!

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17 March 2005, 15:22
Fulham71
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#104

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whats wrong with the car Phil ?

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17 March 2005, 15:54
Andy Tang
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#105

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No problem Phil. I hope everything is ok!

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17 March 2005, 15:57
Andy Tang
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#106

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 555JRA
Any chance of being added to the list?


You are now in the running list!

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17 March 2005, 22:33
drumsterphil
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#107

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Won't have my new exhaust system fitted in time and as I've rr'd in current spec already I'll wait until I've got the new system on.

Hope you all have a great day!

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18 March 2005, 14:31
Andy Tang
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#108

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Spectators are welcome for tomorrow, but please following the car parking request on the first post!

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18 March 2005, 20:23
Fulham71
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#109

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its tomorrow

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18 March 2005, 22:02
Daveo
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#110

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Can't wait...first time for me wagon on the dyno and am really looking forward to it!!

Dave

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fulham71
its tomorrow


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18 March 2005, 22:18
Dyney
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#111

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Not managed to up the boost
But I do have a full range of revs



Just realised how close this is to my parents place (about 5 miles) Pity she's in Tenerife

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18 March 2005, 22:37
Andy Tang
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#112

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So a little more than 301bhp than Iain???

See you tomorrow BTW I have donuts and cookies!

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19 March 2005, 06:40
Fulham71
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#113

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Im off now
Cya later guys !

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20 March 2005, 17:10
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#114

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Results?????

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20 March 2005, 17:39
Fulham71
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#115

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The R/R seemed to be reading very very low

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20 March 2005, 18:24
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#116

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I did notice that a few weeks ago at the Hants RR day but would be interested in results

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20 March 2005, 20:37
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#117

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

274 from a my car that shoudl be producing a touch over 300.....if thats an indication

and a figure at the wheels that was only 5 up from what i got when the car was standard! (where it should have been about 55up!)

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20 March 2005, 20:38
Tim_K
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#118

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here are the power graphs for mine and Steve's (SMG) cars.....












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20 March 2005, 21:45
andypugh2000
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#119

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Excellent results SMG guys, mine made a tiny little 284 bhp when I was expecting at least 310

I agree the rollers were down compared to other places but maybe they are correct and others are not?? who knows but all in all a great day and the best result for the "home tuners" was dyney running stock boost to acheive 323 bhp

AP

Ps Im the one in the bottom photo with the video camera and glasses

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20 March 2005, 22:04
Fulham71
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#120

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So does that mean that if we have a front mount you will re run the cars for free ?

Not sure why every car was told it was running rich ! Maybe its because they were mapped on the road & not on rollers !

Also maybe you could explain why standard scoobs were down on standard figures plus why the SMG car was 30bhp down on the week ? Seems like the fans arent man enough for the job !

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by Fulham71 : 20 March 2005 at 22:22.

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20 March 2005, 22:54
Fulham71
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#121

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Its seems that a post has been deleted from the owner of the rolling road which slotted in between my last post & the one by AP !

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20 March 2005, 22:59
PALATINE
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#122

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how did the foresters do?

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20 March 2005, 23:10
DPat
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#123

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fulham71
Its seems that a post has been deleted from the owner of the rolling road which slotted in between my last post & the one by AP !

The one about fan size?!?!?

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20 March 2005, 23:10
Fulham71
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#124

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yup

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20 March 2005, 23:14
vixpy1
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#125

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I deleted the message becuase I catagoricaly stated that i was not going to be drawn into a discussion on the boards. I was trying to be friendly and helpful. Not sure why i bothered now.

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20 March 2005, 23:16
Fulham71
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#126

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Seems like you are trying to hide something to me !

Why not be honest & open ! As you know I have sent you a PM & would appreciate a reply !

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20 March 2005, 23:19
vixpy1
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#127

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I have replied, but you're mailbox is full!

I have nothing to hide, feel free to slag off my rolling road as much as you want.

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20 March 2005, 23:23
Fulham71
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#128

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My in box is no longer full !

I havent slagged off your rolling road, I have just asked some questions which both I & others would like some answers to !

You have admitted already that the fans were inadequate ! All I am asking you to do is clarify some points ! Surely if you want us & others to use your rollers again then it would be in your best interests to be open with paying customers.

Thanks

Paul

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20 March 2005, 23:25
scooby-tc
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#129

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IIRC Dyneys car made 303 at the hants RR at the same place so either hes been tweaking or the rollers are inconsistant

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20 March 2005, 23:38
vixpy1
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#130

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Quote:
Originally Posted by scooby-tc
IIRC Dyneys car made 303 at the hants RR at the same place so either hes been tweaking or the rollers are inconsistant


That was at PE, not on our rollers.

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20 March 2005, 23:40
vixpy1
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#131

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fulham71
All I am asking you to do is clarify some points !


And i said i would, but not on the boards.

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20 March 2005, 23:45
ScoobyDuck
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#132

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and he had a very floppy wastegate & 6k rev limit @ PE, so yes, it's had some tweaking.

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20 March 2005, 23:46
Fulham71
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#133

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Vixpy1 I look forward to your PM !

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21 March 2005, 00:05
scooby-tc
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#134

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my apologies i thought it was at PE ill shut up then.Would still be nice to see a list of results tho

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21 March 2005, 00:05
Andy Tang
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#135

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PALATINE
how did the foresters do?


I got 109bhp at the wheels (no flywheel figure given as my car is an automatic)

As standard the Forester S Turbo is 174bhp, so that gives about 38% transmission losses.

Then again on the rollers the car was only boosting to 0.45 bar, where as it makes 0.5-0.55 bar on the road.

I was expecting the bhp to be slightly down as the engine has 100k on the clock, so pretty close to what I was expecting.

SteveM made 178bhp (whp)/233bhp (fly) and missed the boost target by 1psi.

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21 March 2005, 10:26
MattPiece
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#136 Cheers

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Andy,

Thanks for organising the RR day Sat. As it was my first one, I was nervous seeing the car being revved for the first time but once it was off the rollers in once piece, I was fine! Good to meet other JDM wagon drivers too and some of the Surrey Scoobs.

Sounds like most/all cars were running 25-30 bhp down on what they were expecting. Doesnt bother me too much as I *know* my car is running rich Incidentally were there any standard Scoobs running?

SMG: 573 bhp. JFC -

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Last edited by MattPiece : 21 March 2005 at 10:36. Reason: edits

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21 March 2005, 11:06
Andy Tang
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#137

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Even Tim's car running without nitrous made 412bhp!!!

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21 March 2005, 13:05
prelude
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#138

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so mixed feelings about the outcome on the day then? sounds like all had fun thoe


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21 March 2005, 20:06
Dyney
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#139

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Fulham, Keep it off the thread!


I think the rollers were reading conservative, but then who's says that other rollers are right This is a brand new set up, running factory settings!!


I had 303bhp at PE about a month ago (with the wastegate slightly open and a 6k rev limit. To control the boost)
I made 323 bhp on Sat But I expect I would have made 350 on PE's rollers If it had been Well lane who knows Which one is more accurate??

Rolling road figures can only be compared if the car is run on the same rollers on the same day!! Shoot out days are a bit of fun, no more.

As for all the cars running rich! That's not quite true


I had a great day.
Thanks to Andy, Charlie and all involved. Couldn't even complain about the price

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21 March 2005, 22:44
pat
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#140

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Gents,

it is well known that the Dyno Dynamics rolling roads read lower than Power Engineering, but they are at least consistent amongst installations of the same type. Harvey was kind enough to make a 300 mile round trip to do a back to back comparison between Scooby Clinic and G-Force, on the same day, with the same car, and the same map, even the same tank of fuel, but two different venues. What we found was a discrepancy of 1.5% between the two installations in power, but a bigger discrepancy in terms of torque, but I think we have identified the cause and after correcting for that, we were again consistent to less than 1%.

If someone were to take their car to Power Station then they could also expect lower figures than they would find at Power Engineering. Same would be true for Engine Advantages. It's difficult to know who is actually "right", one would have to remove the engine from the car and test it on a bench dynomometer to find the true flywheel figure.

People are free to believe whatever figure they want to. The key to using rolling roads effectively in evaluating the effects of modifications is to choose one set of rollers and stick to them, so long as they are consistent. Rolling road days are a bit of fun, comparing figures between cars on the same rollers on the same day...

As for the cars running rich, it's basically a case of "it's a Subaru, they all do that!" The engine design does not lend itself well to running the leaner AFRs you might expect to see in other performance engines such as Cosworth YB. There is some benefit to be had from taking a controlled amount of fuel back out, but it's a delicate balancing act, while the overall AFR of the engine may stay "sane", that is no guarantee that every cylinder is getting a sufficiently rich charge, such is the design of the engine.

Cheers,

Pat.

Fulham71

21 March 2005, 23:48
Bob Rawle
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#141

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Pat you should be aware that Merv took a car that had been Teked on the PE rollers straight up to G Force imediately and 45 mins or so later it ran less than a 5 bhp difference so that would imply G Force and PE are very close. I fail to see the relevence to this thread of the G Force and Clinic comparison, you yourself have shown how things could get distorted. It is good to hear that at least those two rollers will be comparable though.

Having looked at some graphs and seen some figs there does seem to have been some disparity here for whatever reason.

General comment, rich is a word used to describe a lower than normal afr in a car, however depending on the car the same afr could also be considered lean, 10.9 is considered normal in remapped cars in some quarters although to me that would be rich. Engine/model year plays a huge part with GC8 engines being capable of supporting leaner mixtures than new age of course.

Someone put a post up asking about a dip in his power curve and he ran at this rr day, the dip is probably caused by the engine choking on too much fuel which could also explain the poor power figure, excessive heat soak could cause that as the factory ecu pulls timing out it also enrichens.

Finally there is no way anyone should relate figures on one rolling road to another, most will yield differing results dependant on setup and operator skill. Find one you like and stick to it for comparative benchmarking only is my advice.

I did read the post relating to fans now removed, considering the criticality of proper cooling to these cars that defo needs sorting to the level used by G Force who have a superb setup imho, PE also have large powerful fans and Harvey mentioned he thought the Clinic fan a good air mover as well. Not only can it make the difference to being close to on the road relative performance but engine safety as well.

cheers

bob

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Yesterday, 01:00
vixpy1
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#142

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Rawle
Pat you should be aware that Merv took a car that had been Teked on the PE rollers straight up to G Force imediately and 45 mins or so later it ran less than a 5 bhp difference so that would imply G Force and PE are very close. I fail to see the relevence to this thread of the G Force and Clinic comparison, you yourself have shown how things could get distorted. It is good to hear that at least those two rollers will be comparable though.

Having looked at some graphs and seen some figs there does seem to have been some disparity here for whatever reason.

General comment, rich is a word used to describe a lower than normal afr in a car, however depending on the car the same afr could also be considered lean, 10.9 is considered normal in remapped cars in some quarters although to me that would be rich. Engine/model year plays a huge part with GC8 engines being capable of supporting leaner mixtures than new age of course.

Someone put a post up asking about a dip in his power curve and he ran at this rr day, the dip is probably caused by the engine choking on too much fuel which could also explain the poor power figure, excessive heat soak could cause that as the factory ecu pulls timing out it also enrichens.

Finally there is no way anyone should relate figures on one rolling road to another, most will yield differing results dependant on setup and operator skill. Find one you like and stick to it for comparative benchmarking only is my advice.

I did read the post relating to fans now removed, considering the criticality of proper cooling to these cars that defo needs sorting to the level used by G Force who have a superb setup imho, PE also have large powerful fans and Harvey mentioned he thought the Clinic fan a good air mover as well. Not only can it make the difference to being close to on the road relative performance but engine safety as well.

cheers

bob


My comment on the fans related to Intake Temp only. Our fans are quite capable of cooling the cars, and also of cooling the front mount intercoolers. We chuck 15,000 cfm at the cars. However some of the cars DID run high intake temps and this is the reason I have invested in a G-force fan, which has more air speed. However our road runs a live atmos system and corrected for the intake temps on the day. The comment was miscontrued and hence i removed it.

The SMG car ran 10bhp at the wheels (462 vs 452) more on Sat than after mapping on Tues. Probably due to the fact that we ran it in Shootout mode on Sat as opposed to a straight ramp while mapping. We did not run a flywheel graph on the Tues!. This is despite it being much cooler while we mapped it.

PE and the Dyno Dynamics rolling roads read very close at the wheels, however there is some difference in the flywheel estimations. My own Legacy has run the same wheel figs on both roads when it was Standard. It is Decatted and runs 300bhp at the fly on my road. The standard Bugeyes all ran the same figs on Sat as they have on Scoobyclincs road, almost to the HP, this indicates to me that all the Dyno Dynamics roads read the same.

On our road, a 911 GT3 will come out almost to the HP at the fly To Porsches own figs.

You are of coarse free to come down and inspect our road for yourself Bob. Please feel free to email me with any questions you have.

Cheers,

Charlie Wright.
Managing Director.
Surrey Rolling Road.

charlie@surreyrollingroad.co.uk

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Yesterday, 14:02
neonfury
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#143

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Nice to meet some of you guys on the Saturday. Was a great day out! Shame it was a little warm for the cars. Ran 242bhp fly 163 bhp wheels and 200 ftlb.

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Yesterday, 15:38
Fulham71
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#144

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Seems pretty conclusive to me !

Ran on the PE rollers today & made a considerable amount more torque & BHP than on the Surrey Rolling Road on Saturday !

This roller has been rolling Clio 172 s at 172 bhp & Focus ST170s at 170 bhp ! So their rollers appear pretty accurate to me !

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Yesterday, 15:46
vixpy1
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#145

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fulham71
Seems pretty conclusive to me !

Ran on the PE rollers today & made a considerable amount more torque & BHP than on the Surrey Rolling Road on Saturday !

This roller has been rolling Clio 172 s at 172 bhp & Focus ST170s at 170 bhp ! So their rollers appear pretty accurate to me !


A considerable amount eh?

Would you be willing to publish the wheel figs then?

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Yesterday, 16:36
Fulham71
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#146

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I would say 10% is a considerable amount ! Im my opinion this must be due to user error rather than just temp etc !

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Yesterday, 16:41
vixpy1
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#147

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fulham71
I would say 10% is a considerable amount ! Im my opinion this must be due to user error rather than just temp etc !


you can't compare flywheel figs on teh two roads. So what was the wheels fig?

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Yesterday, 22:41
Bob Rawle
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#148

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Charlie thanks for the offer, I don't inspect rolling roads but I do like to drag my car around them to see what it's doing from time to time.

BTW, shoot_44 is a setup for the wrx and in Oz should be run in 3rd gear according to some interesting info I came across on 22B, so what effect would that have on a wrx that was run in 4th gear ? Thats based on Dyno Dynamics own recommendations iirc.

Maybe the issue was gearing ?

as a thought

cheers

bob

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Yesterday, 23:01
vixpy1
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#149

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Rawle
Charlie thanks for the offer, I don't inspect rolling roads but I do like to drag my car around them to see what it's doing from time to time.

BTW, shoot_44 is a setup for the wrx and in Oz should be run in 3rd gear according to some interesting info I came across on 22B, so what effect would that have on a wrx that was run in 4th gear ? Thats based on Dyno Dynamics own recommendations iirc.

Maybe the issue was gearing ?

as a thought

cheers

bob


Hi Bob,

Your welcome anytime

The gearing is a huge debate in itself to be honest. I have done tests in my own Legacy with a 5 speed box, The car generated 2 more bhp in 4th at the wheels. There are arguments that the closer to 1:1, then the lower the transmission losses. Certain cars, (The old corvettes for instance) are HUGELY fussy about the gear they are run in. Other cars, 200SX for instance, it does'nt seem to make a blind bit of difference. Fiat coupes Turbo's will give more power in 3rd.

We tend to stick to 4th for most cars. I think the key is consistancy, Running the same cars in the same gear everytime they visit the road.

Cheers.

Charlie.

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Last edited by vixpy1 : Yesterday at 23:34.

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Today, 03:52
Jay m A
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#150

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fulham71
Seems pretty conclusive to me !

Ran on the PE rollers today & made a considerable amount more torque & BHP than on the Surrey Rolling Road on Saturday !

This roller has been rolling Clio 172 s at 172 bhp & Focus ST170s at 170 bhp ! So their rollers appear pretty accurate to me !


Clio and focus quote PS don't they? Told you PE over-read!

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Today, 08:03
andypugh2000
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#151

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Here are the figures for G-Force roling road day that drumsterphil held last April.

Fangoria - 409.4
Pickle - 347.8
Drumsterphil - 333.1
R.B. - 332.3
Stu Page - 298.8
WRX888 - 288.0
Urbanmyth - 276.7
John S. - 274.4
Andy Pugh - 268.9
Mat Fitzpatrick - 262.2
Kev (RB5309) - 255.1
Richard - 253.4
V5 Man - 249.3
Neilo - 247.8
Scottywrx - 244.6
Monkey Boy 2 - 237.7
Steve R - 234.0
Songmasterbob - 232.4
Frenchboy - 227.4

If you check out the figures for urbanmyth, this car was a STi MY03 PPP

Nick ran exactly the same spec car on saturday and made 276 bhp

Coincidence??

My car ran 268 on the above run but made 284 on saturday with a VF28 turbo instead of the TD04 so IMHO the figures from saturday aren't a million miles away

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by andypugh2000 : Today at 08:05.

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Today, 09:22
Andy Tang
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#152

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Fair comment Andy.

Do you remember what Neilo got on Saturday? Maybe Neil would like to comment and how it compares with the G-Force run?

I know that the MY99/00 PPP car (Tuckers) got book figure.

Also the automatic Legacy and Forester, seem to be in the right ball park.

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Today, 09:26
Fulham71
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#153

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Can you explain why I got 10% higher figures at PE than I got at Surrey Rolling Road ?

over the history of my Subaru Ownership the PE rollers have been very consistent ! Now it seems like they are being doubted ?! Seems like Respected members of the community like Bob & Pat trust the PE rollers & Seem to think they are similar to the readings you will get on the G force rollers !

Which rollers did your Classic make its 350 ish run on Andy Tango man ?

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Today, 09:42
Neilo
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#154

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Tang
Fair comment Andy.

Do you remember what Neilo got on Saturday? Maybe Neil would like to comment and how it compares with the G-Force run?

I know that the MY99/00 PPP car (Tuckers) got book figure.

Also the automatic Legacy and Forester, seem to be in the right ball park.


hi yeah, that G-force run for my car was when it has a panel filter and backbox ONLY. so standard boost etc..

Now it has a bigger turbo (APS SR30) running 1.4bar, bigger intercooler, bigger injectors, full decat, and a BRD Tek 3 map. The car is infinitely quicker that 247bhp, and at that time the wheels figure was 184.

On saturday the wheels figure (given all of the above work) was 191???

With a previous map with the turbo running 1.2bar it made 295 at PEand 224 at the wheels, so i was expecting it to be around the 310-315mark, and about 240 at the wheels....the car certainly feels that fast (considerably quicker than when tested at 295 at least.)

Cheers,
Neil.

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Today, 09:47
Fulham71
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#155

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Neil It would be interesting to see what it was producing on a different set of rollers Ie G force or PE

I would love to be able to run mine now on G Forces rollers but I have spent over £80 in 4 days just comparing PE & Surrey Rolling Road ! Anyone want to contribute towards at run at G force so we can compare the results there too ? LOL

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Today, 09:51
andypugh2000
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#156

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fulham71
Neil It would be interesting to see what it was producing on a different set of rollers Ie G force or PE

I would love to be able to run mine now on G Forces rollers but I have spent over £80 in 4 days just comparing PE & Surrey Rolling Road ! Anyone want to contribute towards at run at G force so we can compare the results there too ? LOL

I will be up for a power run if you can get one booked for saturday

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Today, 10:13
Fulham71
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#157

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No chance for Saturday Andy
I have spoken to G force & they are trying to find a suitable time when we canrun my car there !
This will onviously never be conclusive but will give more of an idea ! Depending on the G force rolling figures we will have an idea of where this thread is going ! OBVIOUSLY I KNOW THAT THE CAR hasnt been rin on the same day same conditions etc etc but the car will be in the same spec on all 3 runs (No changes at all) & it will give us an IDEA of the accuracy of different rolling roads !

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Today, 10:21
Andy Tang
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#158

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Paul,

For the record my old silver car made:

[Full De-cat and filter]
239bhp - 223lb/ft - Powerstation
271bhp - 249lb/ft - Power Engineering

[The full monty - Runs were done 1 week apart with the same tank of fuel, tyre pressures and similar temperatures]
340.5bhp - [Can't remember torque] - Tuning Japanese
354bhp - 298lb/ft - Power Engineering

Everyone will swear blind that their rolling roads are the most accurate, as when they run "this or that" standard car, it makes the manufacturers figures.

With the TJ and PE runs, the figures were within 5% of each other. I'm happy to write that off as temperature or humidity differences.

Only issue is that PE can't run automatics, so there is no way of me knowing if there are differences with my car on different rollers.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by Andy Tang : Today at 10:26.

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Today, 10:26
Fulham71
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#159

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So by your comments above are you saying that the rollers at PE are reading high & therefore your car might have been a sub 350 bhp car

Obviously by the results I have recieved on the two dynos, one has to be reading high or low If you are saying that you think the Surrey Rolling Road ones were right on Sat, then that means that the PE ones must be high & therefore can we cast doubt on your 356 at PE

Only a bit of fun mate !

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Today, 10:28
Andy Tang
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#160

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My figure pissed other people off, as their highly modified Japanese and UK cars could not beat the figures on the same day!

Sub-350bhp or not, it annoyed enough people to make me chuckle all the way home!

Fulham71

Today, 10:30
Neilo
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#161

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i would be interested if someone could get something organised.....althoguh i am down to do one at WRC tech, which is operated by chris (ex g-force) so would hope that it would be similar?

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Today, 10:53
Fulham71
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#162

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That what its all about mate

Would be nice to compare the rollers though!

Impossible to get an exact science as its never possible to runt he same car in exactly the same conditions at the same time etc etc

BUT We might be able to get a fair comparison if we can get the same car/cars on a few rollers !

Just a cash issue as these things are expensive !!

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Today, 10:55
Andy Tang
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#163

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Paul, you should get your engine out and run it on an engine dyno if it annoys you so much!

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Today, 11:09
Fulham71
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#164

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LOL I hope never to have the engine out again !

I just think It is an interesting excercise & it seems like I am not the only one who thinks the same

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Today, 11:13
Andy Tang
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#165

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Don't do it Paul.... you will only be disappointed when everyone confirms you have a 310bhp car!!

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Today, 11:17
vixpy1
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#166

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Fulham71,

As I and others had stated, you can NOT compare the flywheel figs on the P/E and Dyno Dynodynamics Roads. You can only compare the wheel figs, even then the two roads use different atmos correction systems so i would expect this to be a little higher on the P/E run on Monday.

Since the Wheel fig is the only this a RR can measure, you have stated that myn under reads by 10%. Please publish the wheel fig you got at P/E on Monday, so that EVERYONE can judge about the rollers using fact, or remove your comments.

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Today, 11:25
Fulham71
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#167

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OK booked in for a session at G Force so will publish the results of that run too !

Apparently G Force run the 5 speed cars in 3rd Gear in shoot out 44. (6 gear cars will be run in 4th) Mine is a 5 speed car so not sure why you ran it in 4th & not 3rd !

I will speak to the technician after the run to see what difference this will make ! (maybe thats why your figures are lower !)

As I have said all along I am not here to take a pop out you or youre rolling road but maybe this is a learning experience for all of us !

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Today, 11:28
vixpy1
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#168

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fulham71
OK booked in for a session at G Force so will publish the results of that run too !

Apparently G Force run the 5 speed cars in 3rd Gear in shoot out 44. (6 gear cars will be run in 4th) Mine is a 5 speed car so not sure why you ran it in 4th & not 3rd !

I will speak to the technician after the run to see what difference this will make ! (maybe thats why your figures are lower !)

As I have said all along I am not here to take a pop out you or youre rolling road but maybe this is a learning experience for all of us !


We ran it in 4rd because YOU asked us too, however, we would have done it anyway.

I repeat, PUBLISH YOUR WHEEL FIGS, or remove your comments!

Don't start being all friendly now either.

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Today, 11:37
MattPiece
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#169

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Quote:
Originally Posted by vixpy1
We ran it in 4rd because YOU asked us too, however, we would have done it anyway.

I repeat, PUBLISH YOUR WHEEL FIGS, or remove your comments!

Don't start being all friendly now either.


Wont they be in the new magazine around August time....?

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Today, 11:40
Fulham71
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#170

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NO I didnt ask you to ! I trusted that you knew what you were doing as it is your business & I am not an expert on rolling roads & have never said I am !
I had grave worries when I was told that the two guys running the rollers were a paint sprayer & a computer technician & this rolling road is a part time job (correct me if I am wrong as this is just pure hearsay !) Also when you didnt know how to measure boost pressure on my car hence why I told you not to bother & to leave it alone !

I am not being friendly or otherwise ! As quoted by yourself in a private mail from you you dont give a toss what I think & You will not be publishing any comments about your rolling road on any public forums ! Why start now !? I make judgements on people based on respect ! There are plenty of guys on here whos views I respect. Some have posted on here.

I will not be posting on here until the car has been on the rollers at G force as I am worried that you are turning this thread the wrong way ! The figures will talk for themselves ! I will publish the graphs & Then will not comment again & it will be for others to make judgements ! BUT it appears to me that you MIGHT be running cars in the wrong gear in the mode that you are using BUT then again it could be that G Force are doing it wrong !

As far as I am concerned this has dragged on too long. Once I have the print out for G force I will publish your graph, the one from PE & The G force one !

I WONT post anything else ! I am bored of this now ! I have spent too much time & money on this !

You are happy with your rollers & thats all that counts ! People chose what rollers they run their cars on & again thats their choice.

I had never heard of your company before this rolling road was arranged ! I had heard of PE & G Force & their reputation speaks for itself !

For all I know G force could produce the same figures as yours & Then I will be man enough to publish on here to that effect !

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Today, 11:49
vixpy1
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#171

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattPiece
Wont they be in the new magazine around August time....?


The P/E ones won't.

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Today, 11:54
andypugh2000
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#172

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When you booked in for Paul as I fancy running mine too

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Today, 11:54
vixpy1
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#173

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fulham71
NO I didnt ask you to ! I trusted that you knew what you were doing as it is your business & I am not an expert on rolling roads & have never said I am !
I had grave worries when I was told that the two guys running the rollers were a paint sprayer & a computer technician & this rolling road is a part time job (correct me if I am wrong as this is just pure hearsay !) Also when you didnt know how to measure boost pressure on my car hence why I told you not to bother & to leave it alone !

I am not being friendly or otherwise ! As quoted by yourself in a private mail from you you dont give a toss what I think & You will not be publishing any comments about your rolling road on any public forums ! Why start now !? I make judgements on people based on respect ! There are plenty of guys on here whos views I respect. Some have posted on here.

I will not be posting on here until the car has been on the rollers at G force as I am worried that you are turning this thread the wrong way ! The figures will talk for themselves ! I will publish the graphs & Then will not comment again & it will be for others to make judgements ! BUT it appears to me that you MIGHT be running cars in the wrong gear in the mode that you are using BUT then again it could be that G Force are doing it wrong !

As far as I am concerned this has dragged on too long. Once I have the print out for G force I will publish your graph, the one from PE & The G force one !

I WONT post anything else ! I am bored of this now ! I have spent too much time & money on this !

You are happy with your rollers & thats all that counts ! People chose what rollers they run their cars on & again thats their choice.

I had never heard of your company before this rolling road was arranged ! I had heard of PE & G Force & their reputation speaks for itself !

For all I know G force could produce the same figures as yours & Then I will be man enough to publish on here to that effect !


Your first comment is wrong, this is my full time job. Mark is very experienced in both Rolling Roads and Jap cars.

Who says i did'nt know how to join the boost up? You told me not to bother before i had a chance to fix it up!

You won't publish the wheels fig from P/E becuase I suspect its probably about 10whp over the figs you recieved on myn. I know the two sets of rollers and how they perform. P/E don't run atmos correction on the wheel figs, and it was a colder day. So in my mind if this is true it exonterates both me, my company and my rollers.

Either Deny that the wheel H/p figs were not that far away from mine. Publish the wheel figs you recieved at P/E. Or Apolagise!!!!!

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Today, 12:04
Neilo
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#174

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Quote:
Originally Posted by andypugh2000
When you booked in for Paul as I fancy running mine too


ditto although i doubt id be able to

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Today, 12:11
Fulham71
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#175

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I know you are trying to find out my at the wheels figures as you are on the phone to Power Engineering asking for them now !

The wheels figure was 247 compared to 227 on your rollers apparently ie 8.8% difference !

You didnt know where to connect the boost pipe as you called me over for assistance !

I apologise for doubting that this is your job ! MY MISTAKE !

I didnt feel necessary to publish them as a) You havent paid for the session & this whole saga will have cost ME over £250 by te time I have visited G Force ! b) I dont think I should be paying for your research & development costs ! c) What is to stop you taking your car to the three rollers I am using !

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Today, 12:14
vixpy1
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#176

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We will be running the same Subaru on P/E and My road (Surrey Rolling Road) Today.

I will post up the figs here.

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Today, 12:17
vixpy1
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#177

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fulham71
I know you are trying to find out my at the wheels figures as you are on the phone to Power Engineering asking for them now !

The wheels figure was 247 compared to 227 on your rollers apparently ie 8.8% difference !

You didnt know where to connect the boost pipe as you called me over for assistance !

I apologise for doubting that this is your job ! MY MISTAKE !

I didnt feel necessary to publish them as a) You havent paid for the session & this whole saga will have cost ME over £250 by te time I have visited G Force ! b) I dont think I should be paying for your research & development costs ! c) What is to stop you taking your car to the three rollers I am using !


No i was'nt, I was organising a back to back run this afternoon. Ask them, I did'nt ask for the wheels fig.

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Today, 12:26
andypugh2000
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#178

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Right chaps I think the only way to resolve this is to wait for all the relevent info to be collected by running the cars and posting the graphs, then compare notes, no point bitching until then

AP

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Today, 12:27
vixpy1
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#179

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fulham71


The wheels figure was 247 compared to 227 on your rollers apparently ie 8.8% difference !




Ok, thats interesting. I expected it to be lower than that.

I'm off to P/E and my road to compare the same roads on the same day. As i have said. I will publish the results.

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Today, 14:31
Fulham71
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#180

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it would be interesting to know what car you are going to take ? is there any chance you could take something thats standard ? That would also give a benchmark manufacturers figure to compare to !

Can you arrange this ?

Why not also go to G Force as you have spent the last 4 days on Surrey Scoobies comparing your rollers to theirs & stating that yours are indentical in every way !!

I am sure that G Force will try to & fit you in if you want to go there !

If I am wrong then I will admit it but if your rollers are found to be reading incorrectly I would appreciate it if you gave my running money to Charity !

Fulham71

Today, 14:48
scooby-tc
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#181

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This reminds me of the old Tuning Japanese debate a couple of years ago very interesting read tho.I recently had my type r on the rollers at PE and the very same car (no extra mods) will be going to the WRC rollers in April so it will be interesting to compare those 2,im guessing it will be close.I wouldnt mind taking it to Surrey RR just to compare the 3 rolling roads.
Thanks again for top entertainment

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Today, 14:58
sammyh
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#182

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This is no longer an event thread, and has gone way off topic and so i'm going to close it.

Please keep events threads on topic please.

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Fulham71

OK GUYS TO KEEP THIS THREAD HERE PLEASE CAN WE KEEP THE POST SO THAT THEY RELATE TO THE DAY IN QUESTION !

I will be posting up the graphs I get from G force & PE to compare with the one I GOT FROM THE MEET ON SATURDAY !

scooby-tc

iTrader: (2)

Good stuff Fulham71 would be interesting to compare the different graphs

vixpy1

Ok Guys,

These are results we got today.

These results were achieved on a 98 legacy GTB with No cat. They were done within an hour of each other and with the same tank of fuel.

Thanks to the guys at Power Engineering for thier co-operation. I have all the graphs if people wish to view them.

P/E 4th Gear.

Wheels : 200
fly : 277

SRR : 4th gear.

Wheels : 201
Fly : 276

We then ran the car in third. P/E would like me to note that they ALWAYS run the cars in 4th gear (Scoobys anyway). This is just for test purposes.

P/E - 3 rd gear

Wheels : 223
Fly : 279

SRR - 3rd gear.

Wheels : 223
Fly : 287


This shows the importance of making sure the cars are always run in the same gear at different roads. P/E and myself run the cars in 4th, G-force and other run the cars in third. I am currently re-assesing the best choice. This could be why people are going to the same type of road and getting different results.

The massive difference between the gears suprised even me.

We will be conducting more back to back tests in the future with different roads.

As a measure of Goodwill, I will be donating Pauls £30 to Cancer Research.

Cheers,

Charlie Wright.
Surrey Rolling Road.
Charlie@surreyrollingroad.co.uk

vixpy1

Err, also it appears the email address on my profile is an old one that does'nt work anymore. If anybody sends or has sent me mail through my profile, please could they use the company address.

Ta,

Charlie.

Fulham71

Interesting Figures Charlie

Dont seem to tally up with what mine did on the two seperate rollers which is most strange ! As you know my figures were exactly 10% higher at the flywheel & 8.8 higher at the wheels on the PE rollers than they were on yours !

Maybe I should come back & run on your rollers again tomorrow after I have been to G force ? As it would appear that your rollers may have sorted themselves out now

Maybe someone could advise me here but G force always run in third gear for a standard five speed 01 WRX. PE run theirs in 4th ! The rollers they use are different BUT surely there is something in the software that equates the two hence how BOB Stated that the car that run at both PE & G Force produced almost identical results.

Also Have you upgraded your fans yet charlie as this will have a greater impact on a front mounted car !

andypugh2000

Seems fair enought to me, strange how pauls power was so different from yours to PE

Anyway I was happy with my figures and I would like to thank Paul for his kind donation to charity

AP

Fulham71

It would be good to get an independant Standard car run on both rollers !

It would be good to run on the rollers at Surrey Rolling Road again to check something wasnt amiss on Saturday which effected most cars running !

Will be interesting to see how my car runs at G Force & if thats more similar to PE or Surrey Rolling road

Please can you post your graphs on here

This also doesnt explain why so many cars underperformed on Saturday !
Why did 2 almost std 01WRX cars poduce under 206 bhp when as standard they are 225

I think your results above cause more issues than they solve !

ex-webby

If this thread turns nasty or mud slinging starts it will be removed without question.

Keep it clean folks!

Regards,
Shaun.

Fulham71

No problem web master we are just trying to understand some strange results from the weekend s meet !

I am working with Charlie to try to sort this out !

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

Shaun,

Would it not be easier to unlock the original post, and paste the new elements of this thread to it?

Post #13 - #17

Just a thought!

Neilo

i will be joining paul at G-Force tomorrow, although probably cant afford to run the car (although i doubt they will have time anyway)

vixpy1

I have said my piece and done as i said and compared the roads. I feel that there is nothing more to be gained from any further involvement in this from me. As I have said we will be doing independant tests in the furture with different roads.

The results at G-force will not be comparable because they will run the car in 3rd. I have said I am reviewing whether we should do so also.

I suspect its simply that it was a much hotter day last Sat which is what caused the difference in results between P/E and ourselves in the wheel figs. The wheel figs are uncorrected for atmos conditions. Cars will put out different figs on the same road from day to day, let alone other roads.

Anyway, i'm bowing out.

Ta,

Charlie.

DavidLewis

I dont really want to get involved but in support of Charlie the figures I received on Saturday were spot on, within 4bhp and 2lb/ft of expected.

Oh, and I had a great time, nice to see a few old faces and all those scoobs. My thanks to Andy T. for all his hard work.

Fulham71

Charlie

I dont think you have proved anything !
I would like to run my car on your rollers then to see if the figures are right now then ?

Fulham71

I am afraid that your figures do not prove anything

The facts are that your rolling road in shoot out 44 mode for a standard ratio 5 speed box the car should be run in 3rd ! This figure should then be compared to PEs rollers with the same car run in 4th ! As Bob stated a car has run both rollers in this way & has produced pretty much identical figures !

PE rollers have been used by Mitsi to prepare the FQ 300 & also by Subaru with the PPP So I would assume they are pretty accurate !

YOU HAVE DIFFERENT SETS OF ROLLERS & THESE ARE FACTS !

Therefore on your car

PE Flywheel 277
SRR Flywheel 287

% difference 3.61 %

PE Wheels 200
SRR Wheels 233

& Difference 16.50 %

AS Stated there is a massive difference !

You have also not explained why most cars on your rollers on Saturday produced such poor figures ! Pretty much standard MY02 WRX produced slightly over 200BHP which is way below the manufacturer standard !

You have not published your graphs for the runs yesterday ! YOU have also not stated which rolling road you did first !

As previously stated & proved by Pat in the past it is possible to get any rolling road to produce any figure ! The only way to prove that your rolling road is producing similar figures to Power Engineerings is to run an independant car at both rollers & using the correct gear ratio on both rollers !

I have offered to run my car again on your rollers to prove that your rollers are still out & you have again declined !

I am suprised that you are unwilling to listen to other experienced rolling road operators & mappers who are willing to give your their advice ! We all appreciate that you havent been doing this as long as the other rolling roads (8 months if I am correct) But it is quite clear from the results that are being obtained from your rollers that something is amiss !

This was shown on Saturday, the photographer from the magazine who was there on Saturday has said the same happened on the previous shoots he did there & again your car yesterday proved that too !

It is pointless me taking this further I have proved my point but you are too stubborn to listen !

If you want my assitance at all then I am still more than willing to provide any help I can to make your operation a success.

I wont be publishing any more on the thread as we seem to be going round & round in circles & as we are not gaining anything I am sure that the moderators will lock it anyway !

As a final point I would have loved to have used your facility & it been accurate. However it wasnt & I have had further expence from running at PE to find out the true figures of my car & these are consistent with previous rolling road days there !

I think that its best to stick with one rolling road & compare all mod work on the same rolling road.

Paul

Stuart Knight

iTrader: (2)

Charlie, I'm suprised that you quote similar figures for your own car on PE rollers and your own, when you said on the day that they would not be anywhere near each other. My car gave 330bhp @the flywheel at PE, 230 bhp @ the wheels (on a 30 degree day), yet on your road produced 290bhp @ the flywheel and 225bhp@the wheels (on an 18 degree day).

Considering the spec of my car (94 WRX CDB, Cosworth pistons, PACE FMIC, STiV heads, TD05FE, HKS headers, Scoobysport 2.5" decat, 550 injectors, Blitz induction, remap by Pat) 290/225bhp seems woefully low, yet other people seem to have got the figures they were expecting.

Stuart

Daveo

Stuart,

I was dissapointed with my figures from last saturday's run. My car is extensively modified to the following spec:

sti 6 wagon

hks 2.2 stroker
turbo dynamics md304 turbo
full magnex decat
sti 8 tmic
motorsport fuel pump
apexi power fc
hks evc 5 boost controller

My car is running 1.4 bar boost and only probduced 269 bhp at surrey, which is less than a standard sti 6 wagon.

It was my first run on a dyno, so to be fair to surrey I have nothing to compare it with, but i'm sure my car should be pushing out more than a standard sti 6.

Dave

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

Dave,

Do you know if your car maintain the boost levels it was mapped for? I know most cars can't.

Daveo

Andy Forest showed me the boost trace when he mapped the car last month. The boost was holding at 1.4 bar very well.

Bigger turbo required me thinks!!!

Andy - thanks for organising the day at surrey, I had a great time and met some really nice people.

Dave

andypugh2000

All these mods and a lot of people had much low power than expected, I have minor mods on my 98 uk wagon and pulled 285 bhp which I was pleased about, very strange state of affairs