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EU Referendum

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Old 28 June 2016 | 10:03 AM
  #2971  
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Originally Posted by Paben
Agreed it's not, but we (correctly) give Warren a hard time for his badgering tactics in discussion. There's really no excuse or need for it, and it drives some people with valid opinions out of the arena.
are you suggesting that someone who spends 96 pages on a thread, regarding a question that will undoubtedly effect people lives (good and bad) defending a position he then admits was lies and he didn't really believe

a valid position to take
Old 28 June 2016 | 10:05 AM
  #2972  
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Originally Posted by trails
As many times as we need to ensure the people voting can make an educated decision based on fact.
Ad Infinitum then

Better we leave the important decisions to our elected government (and unelected Lords) who know what's best
Old 28 June 2016 | 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by BMWhere?
Ad Infinitum then

Better we leave the important decisions to our elected government (and unelected Lords) who know what's best

Geezer's cut and paste sums it up really
Old 28 June 2016 | 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by trails
As many times as we need to ensure the people voting can make an educated decision based on fact.


Hearsay, not carrying any weight you say...sounds like the leave campaign; please see previous sentence
I don't advocate a neverendum, Trails. I think and feel that now the Brexit leaders have revealed their hand those people who voted leave in ignorance are, having had their hoods removed, suitably equipped to make a sound choice. I'd pledge that if the 2nd referendum went the same way as the first I'd accept the result and withdraw from the discussion.
Old 28 June 2016 | 10:08 AM
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The big question now is, how long until the leavers realise they've been lied to?

For instance, they interviewed a bloke on the TV who said he wanted all the immigrants sent back where they came from asap. Thing is they've already said that won't happen.
Old 28 June 2016 | 10:11 AM
  #2976  
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Originally Posted by JTaylor
I don't advocate a neverendum, Trails. I think and feel that now the Brexit leaders have revealed their hand those people who voted leave in ignorance are, having had their hoods removed, suitably equipped to make a sound choice. I'd pledge that if the 2nd referendum went the same way as the first I'd accept the result and withdraw from the discussion.

I think that would be the pragmatic approach...I sincerely believe the result would have been significantly reversed had the pertinent facts been understood by the majority.


One more time then
Old 28 June 2016 | 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by andy97
No law, to respect the people's majority wish. Soon as go against the basis on which this country is governed, we are doomed to anarchy
The referendum is no more than a poll - albeit one which then gives the Government a mandate to resolve to leave the Union.

The issue here, and one that most English people appear to be forgetting is that the United Kingdom is made up of 4 countries. Not just England. The UK is unique in Europe in this respect. 4 countries with differing laws, differing cultures and differing history.

And right now its not particularly united.

Only two of the four countries that make up the UK voted out. That means two voted in. On a country basis, it was 50:50. But because England has by far the largest population there was an overall majority voting to leave.

It may have been the wish of the majority of the Sovereign State that is the UK who voted, but it wasn't the wish of the majority of the countries that make up that Sovereign State. It might have been the peoples wish in England and Wales. But it certainly isn't the people's wish in Scotland and NI.

Is it reasonable that two countries should be taken out of Europe against their collective populations will just because their two neighbours want to leave?

PS - all the comments about Sturgeon stamping her feet and throwing her dummy out the pram because she didn't get the result she wanted crack me up. Try and be smart here and think about it. She got exactly the result she wanted, and may, in fat be the only "winner" out of all of this.
Old 28 June 2016 | 10:18 AM
  #2978  
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Originally Posted by Devildog

PS - all the comments about Sturgeon stamping her feet and throwing her dummy out the pram because she didn't get the result she wanted crack me up. Try and be smart here and think about it. She got exactly the result she wanted, and may, in fat be the only "winner" out of all of this.
I think you may well be right!
Old 28 June 2016 | 10:19 AM
  #2979  
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Originally Posted by Devildog
The referendum is no more than a poll - albeit one which then gives the Government a mandate to resolve to leave the Union.

The issue here, and one that most English people appear to be forgetting is that the United Kingdom is made up of 4 countries. Not just England. The UK is unique in Europe in this respect. 4 countries with differing laws, differing cultures and differing history.

And right now its not particularly united.

Only two of the four countries that make up the UK voted out. That means two voted in. On a country basis, it was 50:50. But because England has by far the largest population there was an overall majority voting to leave.

It may have been the wish of the majority of the Sovereign State that is the UK who voted, but it wasn't the wish of the majority of the countries that make up that Sovereign State. It might have been the peoples wish in England and Wales. But it certainly isn't the people's wish in Scotland and NI.

Is it reasonable that two countries should be taken out of Europe against their collective populations will just because their two neighbours want to leave?

PS - all the comments about Sturgeon stamping her feet and throwing her dummy out the pram because she didn't get the result she wanted crack me up. Try and be smart here and think about it. She got exactly the result she wanted, and may, in fat be the only "winner" out of all of this.
Old 28 June 2016 | 10:22 AM
  #2980  
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Originally Posted by Paben

Of course if everyone should stick with their original vote why bother doing it again? It would be the same outcome or have I missed something?
Originally Posted by Paben
Any right thinking person would concede that 17 million voters is all the law that's needed. I voted remain but would immediately vote to leave if any government dared to attempt a second referendum.
You've both answered your own question, contradicted your argument and made yourself look stupid. That's pretty good going
Old 28 June 2016 | 10:28 AM
  #2981  
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Originally Posted by Devildog
The referendum is no more than a poll - albeit one which then gives the Government a mandate to resolve to leave the Union.

The issue here, and one that most English people appear to be forgetting is that the United Kingdom is made up of 4 countries. Not just England. The UK is unique in Europe in this respect. 4 countries with differing laws, differing cultures and differing history.

And right now its not particularly united.

Only two of the four countries that make up the UK voted out. That means two voted in. On a country basis, it was 50:50. But because England has by far the largest population there was an overall majority voting to leave.

It may have been the wish of the majority of the Sovereign State that is the UK who voted, but it wasn't the wish of the majority of the countries that make up that Sovereign State. It might have been the peoples wish in England and Wales. But it certainly isn't the people's wish in Scotland and NI.

Is it reasonable that two countries should be taken out of Europe against their collective populations will just because their two neighbours want to leave?

PS - all the comments about Sturgeon stamping her feet and throwing her dummy out the pram because she didn't get the result she wanted crack me up. Try and be smart here and think about it. She got exactly the result she wanted, and may, in fat be the only "winner" out of all of this.
on my wife's Facebook a friend joked., "one thing I have learned is that the world would be a better place if run by Scottish women"
Old 28 June 2016 | 10:34 AM
  #2982  
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Originally Posted by Devildog
You've both answered your own question, contradicted your argument and made yourself look stupid. That's pretty good going

Old 28 June 2016 | 10:35 AM
  #2983  
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Originally Posted by trails
That's the whole point though isn't it; those who voted out are now discovering they reached that decision on untruths and weren't aware what the EU does\did for the UK...and would vote differently.


I've not heard of one person who voted stay change their mind and wish they had voted leave...
to a point Trails I agree

but you also have to accept that fact that the "ooh what have I done" feeling would have been a factor in an IN vote

I obviously think we have made the wrong decision - and the arguments and simple lies of the Brexiteers are being highlighted almost on an hourly basis
Old 28 June 2016 | 10:42 AM
  #2984  
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Originally Posted by Devildog
You've both answered your own question, contradicted your argument and made yourself look stupid. That's pretty good going

You've taken this out of context and missed the important word 'if' in the first quote, so you're the stupid one.
Old 28 June 2016 | 10:44 AM
  #2985  
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Originally Posted by hodgy0_2
to a point Trails I agree

but you also have to accept that fact that the "ooh what have I done" feeling would have been a factor in an IN vote

I obviously think we have made the wrong decision - and the arguments and simple lies of the Brexiteers are being highlighted almost on an hourly basis
Totally agree, which is what I'm basing my comment on; as time passes and information around the validity of the leavers arguments is more widely understood the number of "OMFG!" moments from leavers will increase.
Old 28 June 2016 | 10:44 AM
  #2986  
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Originally Posted by Devildog
The referendum is no more than a poll - albeit one which then gives the Government a mandate to resolve to leave the Union.
.
doesn't this in some way highlight the fact that we do not have a written constitution

so much of the current "facsimile" of a constitution we have is done by precedent and (technical) conventions

The queen “invites” a party to form a government – based on the result of a general election - and so on

Last edited by hodgy0_2; 28 June 2016 at 10:46 AM.
Old 28 June 2016 | 10:53 AM
  #2987  
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Originally Posted by neil-h
The big question now is, how long until the leavers realise they've been lied to?

For instance, they interviewed a bloke on the TV who said he wanted all the immigrants sent back where they came from asap. Thing is they've already said that won't happen.
Lied to eh?

Link me to where ANYONE from leave said they would?
Old 28 June 2016 | 10:56 AM
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I obviously think we have made the wrong decision - and the arguments and simple lies of the Brexiteers are being highlighted almost on an hourly basis
Highlight us some on here then?


Old 28 June 2016 | 11:04 AM
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...on-after-brex/


lol


98% of engerlanders are going to be totally stuffed once they get off the ferry

Last edited by dpb; 28 June 2016 at 11:07 AM.
Old 28 June 2016 | 11:06 AM
  #2990  
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You're taking the p1ss right? Do you not have news and television where you are? Just a link to Scoobynet?
Old 28 June 2016 | 11:13 AM
  #2991  
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Originally Posted by Devildog
The referendum is no more than a poll - albeit one which then gives the Government a mandate to resolve to leave the Union.

The issue here, and one that most English people appear to be forgetting is that the United Kingdom is made up of 4 countries. Not just England. The UK is unique in Europe in this respect. 4 countries with differing laws, differing cultures and differing history.

And right now its not particularly united.

Only two of the four countries that make up the UK voted out. That means two voted in. On a country basis, it was 50:50. But because England has by far the largest population there was an overall majority voting to leave.

It may have been the wish of the majority of the Sovereign State that is the UK who voted, but it wasn't the wish of the majority of the countries that make up that Sovereign State. It might have been the peoples wish in England and Wales. But it certainly isn't the people's wish in Scotland and NI.

Is it reasonable that two countries should be taken out of Europe against their collective populations will just because their two neighbours want to leave?

PS - all the comments about Sturgeon stamping her feet and throwing her dummy out the pram because she didn't get the result she wanted crack me up. Try and be smart here and think about it. She got exactly the result she wanted, and may, in fat be the only "winner" out of all of this.
How many more votes do Scotland want ?
Scotland should also remember they had their chance and voted against independence.
The final vote result was to leave the EU,nobody should want to sabotage what the people have voted for.52% is still a win vote.
Old 28 June 2016 | 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by alcazar
Highlight us some on here then?

well we can start with this





and work our way thru

but lets deal with the above first

Last edited by hodgy0_2; 28 June 2016 at 11:20 AM.
Old 28 June 2016 | 11:22 AM
  #2993  
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Originally Posted by JTaylor
I don't advocate a neverendum, Trails. I think and feel that now the Brexit leaders have revealed their hand those people who voted leave in ignorance are, having had their hoods removed, suitably equipped to make a sound choice. I'd pledge that if the 2nd referendum went the same way as the first I'd accept the result and withdraw from the discussion.
A second referendum has to be a non-starter.
Refusing to invoke article 50 carries more water.
If that were to happen, give it 2 or 3 months and most of the 'Leavers' will have forgotten about it anyway amidst the furore surrounding the next murder/affair in Corrie or Eastenders.
Old 28 June 2016 | 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by DYK
How many more votes do Scotland want ?
Scotland should also remember they had their chance and voted against independence.
The final vote result was to leave the EU,nobody should want to sabotage what the people have voted for.52% is still a win vote.
What part of my post don't you understand? 38% of the voting population voted leave.

The people of Scotland don't vote to leave.

The people of NI didn't vote to leave.

I'm not arguing that the majority of those voting didn't vote leave - my point is that because of the UK's unique position as a sovereign state of 4 countries its not (or shouldn't be) that simple.

If Scotland and NI had voted even 50.000000001% to leave then the (and my) position would be different.
Old 28 June 2016 | 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Devildog
. Try and be smart here and think about it. She got exactly the result she wanted, and may, in fat be the only "winner" out of all of this.
I wouldn't be so sure of that. If she chooses to veto UK's withdrawal from the EU, then it removes the "material change" required a 2nd referendum for her ambition for an independent Scotland. If she chooses instead to call a 2nd referendum for independence and stay in the EU, at what cost would this be to Scotland? Euro? Closer political integration? Schengen area? I don't think the EU would do Scotland any favours in order to prevent a similar situation from occurring between Spain and Catalonia.
Old 28 June 2016 | 11:28 AM
  #2996  
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Originally Posted by alcazar
Highlight us some on here then?



For f*cks sake Jeff - If you can access scoobynet you can use google.

www.google.co.uk

its really quite simple. To make it really easy for you, here's one example

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entr...b08d2c56394817
Old 28 June 2016 | 11:30 AM
  #2997  
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Markets and currency settling down with gains after headless chicken moment
Old 28 June 2016 | 11:32 AM
  #2998  
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Originally Posted by jonc
I wouldn't be so sure of that. If she chooses to veto UK's withdrawal from the EU, then it removes the "material change" required a 2nd referendum for her ambition for an independent Scotland. If she chooses instead to call a 2nd referendum for independence and stay in the EU, at what cost would this be to Scotland? Euro? Closer political integration? Schengen area? I don't think the EU would do Scotland any favours in order to prevent a similar situation from occurring between Spain and Catalonia.
I doubt legally she can veto the exit Jon. And a "win" doesn't just mean a second referendum on independence. Arguably it would have been in Boris' best interest for remain to win by a small margin - giving him the opportunity to take the political high ground.

We all need to start thinking beyind the obvious and more outside the box here.
Old 28 June 2016 | 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Paben
You've taken this out of context and missed the important word 'if' in the first quote, so you're the stupid one.
Not at all. It was the "if" that completed the hattrick
Old 28 June 2016 | 11:43 AM
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Sturgeon has been running around creating headlines(fanned by anti-anti EU news outlets) since the result to leave the EU

1. She wanted a referendum for Scotland to leave the UK, not going to get one- fact

2 She was going go Europe to engage in talks to stop the Scotland Leaving the EU, told she couldn't do that- fact

3 She threatened Scotland could block the referendum article 50 decision, she has been informed they have no power to block-fact


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