NavTrak Control Centre
22 June 2001, 02:35 PM
#1
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I've just phoned the NavTrak control centre (the number that you call if your car is stolen) and got another ansafone.
I left a message for them to call me urgently 20 minutes ago.
Nothing. Not a sausage.
Left another message on their ansafone 5 minutes ago.
This rather brings into question the use of their system. If my car had been stolen, the thief has now had half an hour to locate and remove the unit.
When NavTrak contact me, I'll update this thread.
I am quite unhappy.
(NB: this has nothing to do with PTMW!s deal. It's the navtrak service that is giving me grief at the moment)
Anyone have a contact high up in NavTrak that I can have a sensible, reasoned discussion with? I am paying for a service that I am not receiving.
I left a message for them to call me urgently 20 minutes ago.
Nothing. Not a sausage.
Left another message on their ansafone 5 minutes ago.
This rather brings into question the use of their system. If my car had been stolen, the thief has now had half an hour to locate and remove the unit.
When NavTrak contact me, I'll update this thread.
I am quite unhappy.
(NB: this has nothing to do with PTMW!s deal. It's the navtrak service that is giving me grief at the moment)
Anyone have a contact high up in NavTrak that I can have a sensible, reasoned discussion with? I am paying for a service that I am not receiving.
22 June 2001, 02:52 PM
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Managed to get through to them... They didn't return my call. "The ansafone is on the other side of the office" is the reason.
They're hectic today, apparently.
Hint: don't get your car stolen on a Friday afternoon.
They're hectic today, apparently.
Hint: don't get your car stolen on a Friday afternoon.
22 June 2001, 02:55 PM
#3
Email me a phone number or ring me on 07976 327 679
I've been in touch with my main contact & have forwarded the thread to him. He's not impressed either
Hope to hear from you soon.
[This message has been edited by Puff The Magic Wagon! (edited 22 June 2001).]
I've been in touch with my main contact & have forwarded the thread to him. He's not impressed either
Hope to hear from you soon.[This message has been edited by Puff The Magic Wagon! (edited 22 June 2001).]
22 June 2001, 03:20 PM
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Just had another phonecall from "Rob" returning my positioning request.
GPS is now stunningly accurate, down to the yard!
He also explained what happened with the ansafone. They are three people short, and one of the night staff is in too. One is on holiday, one phoned in sick and one had to leave early.
They've just recruited a new operator, too, so this really should never happen again. It shouldn't have happened in the first place, either.
GPS is now stunningly accurate, down to the yard!
He also explained what happened with the ansafone. They are three people short, and one of the night staff is in too. One is on holiday, one phoned in sick and one had to leave early.
They've just recruited a new operator, too, so this really should never happen again. It shouldn't have happened in the first place, either.
22 June 2001, 05:16 PM
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This is normal in my experience.
Still trying to get them to charge me the correct amount of money. They are taking £9.99 instead of £14.99!!
Hope my car doesn't get nicked as it will be abroad by the time they answer the phone!
Paul
Still trying to get them to charge me the correct amount of money. They are taking £9.99 instead of £14.99!!
Hope my car doesn't get nicked as it will be abroad by the time they answer the phone!
Paul
24 June 2001, 09:55 PM
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Damn, thats pretty poor. I cant afford for them to not return my calls if my car gets knicked. Its no good to me telling me "sorry - our 4 man team was only 1 on the day your car went missing and therefore the thieves had already stripped the car down and its gone"! It me be cheap with puffs deal but cheap doesnt count when i lose my car!!
I wonder if an official Navtrack person would care to comment on this. In fact i'll contact them in the morning for a response.
Jza
(Navtrack install on hold for the moment - sorry Puff!)
I wonder if an official Navtrack person would care to comment on this. In fact i'll contact them in the morning for a response.
Jza
(Navtrack install on hold for the moment - sorry Puff!)
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25 June 2001, 12:16 AM
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Thanks Chiark,
Still sounds good to me.
Going to get the brakes done first though.
Ian
[This message has been edited by ian_sadler (edited 25 June 2001).]
Still sounds good to me.
Going to get the brakes done first though.
Ian
[This message has been edited by ian_sadler (edited 25 June 2001).]
25 June 2001, 12:17 AM
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Below is the text of an Email I received from NavTrak on the subject of stealing the car. It doesn't move the debate on from Chiark's post, but at least demonstrates that the event is a rarity.
I can confirm that if your vehicle was moved onto a trailer you would not
receive a proactive alert from the system. However, I can confirm that only
a very small number of vehicles are stolen in this way.
Our statistics are provided by the Avon & Somerset Police department who
tell us that 53% of cars are stolen with onwers keys (NavTrak Proactive
covers these cases) Over 40% without the owners keys (NavTrak Proactive
covers these cases)and the rest are stolen using a trailer (Your system
would then become a reactive system in these cases)
Hope this helps,
Please call me today at the office to discuss in more detail, should you
require..
Kind regards,
Ian Ross
08700 11 00 50
iross@navtrak.com
Incidently, the old man's Cossie turned up two weeks later when somebody returned from holiday and found it intact parked in their garage.
I can confirm that if your vehicle was moved onto a trailer you would not
receive a proactive alert from the system. However, I can confirm that only
a very small number of vehicles are stolen in this way.
Our statistics are provided by the Avon & Somerset Police department who
tell us that 53% of cars are stolen with onwers keys (NavTrak Proactive
covers these cases) Over 40% without the owners keys (NavTrak Proactive
covers these cases)and the rest are stolen using a trailer (Your system
would then become a reactive system in these cases)
Hope this helps,
Please call me today at the office to discuss in more detail, should you
require..
Kind regards,
Ian Ross
08700 11 00 50
iross@navtrak.com
Incidently, the old man's Cossie turned up two weeks later when somebody returned from holiday and found it intact parked in their garage.
25 June 2001, 08:40 AM
#11
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I tried the active portion on Friday night after this episode.
They called me 3 minutes after starting the car! Anyone, and everyone, should really consider the active option.
You can imagine how much it pains me to say this
but it is a better system than installed in the P1 as standard. If your P1 is nicked with the keys, active tracking will not kick in. If a pro-active navtrak equipped car is nicked with the keys, the active tracking will kick in.
This has restored faith. Rob's explanation of what happened, now I'm a bit calmer, is an understandable situation. I think they really realise the importance of a 24/7 service that is always available, and are putting measures in place to make sure this doesn't happen again.
I daresay if the car had been nicked I'd have found a way in getting in contact - through my installer, using him to contact his representative.
I did speak to James (PTMW) just to let him know what happened and he did have another number for me to try if it had been a case of "my car's gone".
In short, it seems like this was a glitch.
The same thing happened in June last year, and the call was never returned, so things have got better .
It's cheap, the boxes are reliable and, hopefully, the service is getting better as they're recruiting.
They called me 3 minutes after starting the car! Anyone, and everyone, should really consider the active option.
You can imagine how much it pains me to say this
but it is a better system than installed in the P1 as standard. If your P1 is nicked with the keys, active tracking will not kick in. If a pro-active navtrak equipped car is nicked with the keys, the active tracking will kick in. This has restored faith. Rob's explanation of what happened, now I'm a bit calmer, is an understandable situation. I think they really realise the importance of a 24/7 service that is always available, and are putting measures in place to make sure this doesn't happen again.
I daresay if the car had been nicked I'd have found a way in getting in contact - through my installer, using him to contact his representative.
I did speak to James (PTMW) just to let him know what happened and he did have another number for me to try if it had been a case of "my car's gone".
In short, it seems like this was a glitch.
The same thing happened in June last year, and the call was never returned, so things have got better
.It's cheap, the boxes are reliable and, hopefully, the service is getting better as they're recruiting.
25 June 2001, 08:53 AM
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Puff
Like Jza I'm concerned about the merits of the NavTrak.
Chiark's comments about the control centre concenred me, but the expliantion appears valid.
However, the following question on a thread
Like Jza I'm concerned about the merits of the NavTrak.
Chiark's comments about the control centre concenred me, but the expliantion appears valid.
However, the following question on a thread
25 June 2001, 10:05 AM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by ian_sadler:
<B>PTMW,
Is it true that the engine has to be running for the active part of the NavTrack to work?
TY
Ian[/quote]
Puff - is that right - so the car has to be started for it to recognise a theft???? I read it has its own battery but does the engine have to be started??
Also - is it true we will be liable for the costs of having it removed? If so - how much does that cost????
Im also a bit concerned that - according to their own website they will "
The police and NavTrak require the key holder/owner of the vehicle to confirm it stolen before any action can be taken. A call to the NavTrak Control Centre and your vehicle is usually located within minutes."
So what if im on holiday and i cant confirm its stolen??? What happens if its left in a Airport carpark and goes missing.
Sorry if this is starting to sound like a witch hunt puff - its not - but im concerned about this kind of thing!!!
Jza
[This message has been edited by Jza (edited 25 June 2001).]
<B>PTMW,
Is it true that the engine has to be running for the active part of the NavTrack to work?
TY
Ian[/quote]
Puff - is that right - so the car has to be started for it to recognise a theft???? I read it has its own battery but does the engine have to be started??
Also - is it true we will be liable for the costs of having it removed? If so - how much does that cost????
Im also a bit concerned that - according to their own website they will "
The police and NavTrak require the key holder/owner of the vehicle to confirm it stolen before any action can be taken. A call to the NavTrak Control Centre and your vehicle is usually located within minutes."
So what if im on holiday and i cant confirm its stolen??? What happens if its left in a Airport carpark and goes missing.
Sorry if this is starting to sound like a witch hunt puff - its not - but im concerned about this kind of thing!!!
Jza
[This message has been edited by Jza (edited 25 June 2001).]
25 June 2001, 10:36 AM
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Right, I'll clear a couple of things up.
Your car can <I>always</I> be passively tracked - if you find it's not where you left it, phone them and they can track it.
I feel a tad unconfortable discussing the exact details of active tracking but in short the navtrack active system is, in my opinion after availing myself to all the information, better than the RAC Trackstar as fitted to the P1. If you have the keys of a P1, active tracking is disabled. With NavTrak, that isn't the end of the story: it has been deliberately designed this way.
Neither the Trackstar nor NavTrak will trigger actively unless the ignition is on. Imagine how much power running the GPS receiver actively on a continuous basis would take and you can see the problem here.
Either system can always be tracked "passively" from the control centre - you will need to alert them that the car has been stolen and they will send a "locate" signal to the car.
I have really done my homework on this now, as I did get into a protracted debate with NavTrak back in January for a variety of reasons - including the ansafone issue. They've fixed all the problems that I had, and are working on the control centre staffing. As a result, the system gets my vote above others in the marketplace especially considering the "activeness" of other systems.
The fact that I couldn't get through concerns me greatly, though there would have been another avenue had my car been stolen - through James, or my dealer, or the contacts that I have from the previous discussion about NavTrak with their customer service manager.
You have seen all the facts as to what happened. I feel confident again in the device. I was wondering whether I should have posted this thread, but it's factual and if it serves to kick NavTrak into providing a better service to us all then it can only be good.
In no way do I intend to damage the massive amounts of effort that James has put into making this deal happen! More users = more revenue = more call centre staff = less likelyhood for over half the staff being unavailable that day!
Your car can <I>always</I> be passively tracked - if you find it's not where you left it, phone them and they can track it.
I feel a tad unconfortable discussing the exact details of active tracking but in short the navtrack active system is, in my opinion after availing myself to all the information, better than the RAC Trackstar as fitted to the P1. If you have the keys of a P1, active tracking is disabled. With NavTrak, that isn't the end of the story: it has been deliberately designed this way.
Neither the Trackstar nor NavTrak will trigger actively unless the ignition is on. Imagine how much power running the GPS receiver actively on a continuous basis would take and you can see the problem here.
Either system can always be tracked "passively" from the control centre - you will need to alert them that the car has been stolen and they will send a "locate" signal to the car.
I have really done my homework on this now, as I did get into a protracted debate with NavTrak back in January for a variety of reasons - including the ansafone issue. They've fixed all the problems that I had, and are working on the control centre staffing. As a result, the system gets my vote above others in the marketplace especially considering the "activeness" of other systems.
The fact that I couldn't get through concerns me greatly, though there would have been another avenue had my car been stolen - through James, or my dealer, or the contacts that I have from the previous discussion about NavTrak with their customer service manager.
You have seen all the facts as to what happened. I feel confident again in the device. I was wondering whether I should have posted this thread, but it's factual and if it serves to kick NavTrak into providing a better service to us all then it can only be good.
In no way do I intend to damage the massive amounts of effort that James has put into making this deal happen! More users = more revenue = more call centre staff = less likelyhood for over half the staff being unavailable that day!
25 June 2001, 10:47 AM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Jza:
<B>
Also - is it true we will be liable for the costs of having it removed? If so - how much does that cost????
[/quote]
Puff answered this for me in
<B>
Also - is it true we will be liable for the costs of having it removed? If so - how much does that cost????
[/quote]
Puff answered this for me in
25 June 2001, 06:02 PM
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Just wondering if any of the tracking systems have any sort of 'external trigger' capability.
EG could they be triggered automatically if you fitted something like the clifford tilt and motion sensor...
Also, does the 'confirmation call' thing apply to all the tracking systems (Navtrak, Trackstar, Tracker?) - its not unusual for me to be unavailable on the mobile due to working inside a datacentre with faraday cage shielded machines and therefore out of contact. What happens about holidays?
EG could they be triggered automatically if you fitted something like the clifford tilt and motion sensor...
Also, does the 'confirmation call' thing apply to all the tracking systems (Navtrak, Trackstar, Tracker?) - its not unusual for me to be unavailable on the mobile due to working inside a datacentre with faraday cage shielded machines and therefore out of contact. What happens about holidays?
25 June 2001, 08:08 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by chiark:
Neither the Trackstar nor NavTrak will trigger actively unless the ignition is on. Imagine how much power running the GPS receiver actively on a continuous basis would take and you can see the problem here.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hmm .. thats not what I was told by Trakstar... they said that if the vehicle was towed away and the engine not started then their system would still recognise this as an unauthorised movement and therefore activate the alert.
I believe this is with the Trakstar protector.
Other good thing is that Trakstar report the theft to the police for you, with Navtrak you have to do it yourself and then phone back with the crime reference number...
hmm... I'm now getting confused!
Graham
Neither the Trackstar nor NavTrak will trigger actively unless the ignition is on. Imagine how much power running the GPS receiver actively on a continuous basis would take and you can see the problem here.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hmm .. thats not what I was told by Trakstar... they said that if the vehicle was towed away and the engine not started then their system would still recognise this as an unauthorised movement and therefore activate the alert.
I believe this is with the Trakstar protector.
Other good thing is that Trakstar report the theft to the police for you, with Navtrak you have to do it yourself and then phone back with the crime reference number...
hmm... I'm now getting confused!
Graham
25 June 2001, 10:35 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by kryten:
Also, does the 'confirmation call' thing apply to all the tracking systems (Navtrak, Trackstar, Tracker?) - its not unusual for me to be unavailable on the mobile due to working inside a datacentre with faraday cage shielded machines and therefore out of contact. What happens about holidays?[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You provide them with 3 contact numbers for them to contact you on .. e.g. mobile, work, home.
For holidays you can provide an alternative contact number and name to cover you!
Graham
Also, does the 'confirmation call' thing apply to all the tracking systems (Navtrak, Trackstar, Tracker?) - its not unusual for me to be unavailable on the mobile due to working inside a datacentre with faraday cage shielded machines and therefore out of contact. What happens about holidays?[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You provide them with 3 contact numbers for them to contact you on .. e.g. mobile, work, home.
For holidays you can provide an alternative contact number and name to cover you!
Graham
26 June 2001, 08:56 AM
#21
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by GMT:
<B> Hmm .. thats not what I was told by Trakstar... [/quote]
That's what I've been told about the P1 Trackstar installation. Still, I wouldn't trust the info enough to nick one this way
<B> Hmm .. thats not what I was told by Trakstar... [/quote]
That's what I've been told about the P1 Trackstar installation. Still, I wouldn't trust the info enough to nick one this way
26 June 2001, 09:03 PM
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All,
Excuse my ignorance, but I have a question about the proactive system. Nick, you explained that you tested the system by jumping in the car and driving off. what happened then? Did Navtrack phone you on your mobile and tell you the car was being driven? this would imply that you have to type in a keycode or somthing to disable this feature.
Or:
Did you drive to your destination, then phone Navtrack and ask them to tell you where you are?
Sorry if this question sounds stupid, but I'd like to know how the bloody thing works before I drive up to London to get one installed!
Chiark, PTMW!, please email me offline if you deem it to sensitive to air this on the BBS.
SORRY! EDITED TO SAY THAT I HAVE JUST READ PTMW! POST ON NAVTRACK DEAL FROM A COUPLE OF DAYS AGO. THIS ANSWERS MY QUESTION
Thanks,
Karlos
[This message has been edited by Karlos (edited 26 June 2001).]
Excuse my ignorance, but I have a question about the proactive system. Nick, you explained that you tested the system by jumping in the car and driving off. what happened then? Did Navtrack phone you on your mobile and tell you the car was being driven? this would imply that you have to type in a keycode or somthing to disable this feature.
Or:
Did you drive to your destination, then phone Navtrack and ask them to tell you where you are?
Sorry if this question sounds stupid, but I'd like to know how the bloody thing works before I drive up to London to get one installed!
Chiark, PTMW!, please email me offline if you deem it to sensitive to air this on the BBS.
SORRY! EDITED TO SAY THAT I HAVE JUST READ PTMW! POST ON NAVTRACK DEAL FROM A COUPLE OF DAYS AGO. THIS ANSWERS MY QUESTION
Thanks,
Karlos
[This message has been edited by Karlos (edited 26 June 2001).]
26 June 2001, 10:28 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by chiark:
<B> That's what I've been told about the P1 Trackstar installation. [/quote]
That makes sense now ... you pay extra for the protector option, which gives 24/7 monitoring of your car. If it's moved by getting started or towed, trakstar will then notify you ...
OK, me thinks me wants a trakstar now
Graham
<B> That's what I've been told about the P1 Trackstar installation. [/quote]
That makes sense now ... you pay extra for the protector option, which gives 24/7 monitoring of your car. If it's moved by getting started or towed, trakstar will then notify you ...
OK, me thinks me wants a trakstar now
Graham
27 June 2001, 08:41 AM
#24
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GMT: aaaaah! That explains it then! Cheers!
Karlos: they phoned me on my mobile three minutes after I started the car. You have to do something to show that you're the rightful driver, otherwise the tracking kicks in.
The "something" isn't a hassle at all, and there's a reminder to do it too
Karlos: they phoned me on my mobile three minutes after I started the car. You have to do something to show that you're the rightful driver, otherwise the tracking kicks in.
The "something" isn't a hassle at all, and there's a reminder to do it too
27 June 2001, 10:14 AM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by GMT:
<B> You provide them with 3 contact numbers for them to contact you on .. e.g. mobile, work, home.
For holidays you can provide an alternative contact number and name to cover you!
[/quote]
But what happens when they cannot get you on any of the numbers?
Do they assume its been nicked and get the police on to it (after how long)?
Or just wait until you call them when you notice its gone (two weeks later when arriving back at Heathrow).....
<B> You provide them with 3 contact numbers for them to contact you on .. e.g. mobile, work, home.
For holidays you can provide an alternative contact number and name to cover you!
[/quote]
But what happens when they cannot get you on any of the numbers?
Do they assume its been nicked and get the police on to it (after how long)?
Or just wait until you call them when you notice its gone (two weeks later when arriving back at Heathrow).....
27 June 2001, 05:59 PM
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I called the call centre today to test my newly fitted system and found them to be very good and helpful. The level of detail they can tell you is very very detailed (almost scary :eek
In answer to Krytons question, according to the instructions supplied with the unit if they can't reach you they will try to contact you for an hour and track the vehicle for an hour... then stop presumably. However, you can supply the details of someone else to call if they can't get hold of you and change your contact numbers as and when you wish, so it shouldn't really be a problem.
In answer to Krytons question, according to the instructions supplied with the unit if they can't reach you they will try to contact you for an hour and track the vehicle for an hour... then stop presumably. However, you can supply the details of someone else to call if they can't get hold of you and change your contact numbers as and when you wish, so it shouldn't really be a problem.
27 June 2001, 06:17 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by ed the dead:
<B>so it shouldn't really be a problem[/quote]
Unless they are not in either, and in that hour its moved from where it was parked to the nearest port.......
Think I'll contact the various trackers and try and get some answers.
I just don't understand why they need to contact someone. For example, if I go off to work and park the car somewhere, but leave my wife's number as an additional contact what use it is going to be phoning her:
tracking person: "Your husband's car is moving without authorisation - has it been stolen":
wife: "No idea, it was parked 100 miles from where I am and he can't be contacted for the rest of the day"
tracking person: "?"
Where does this scenario get them? Do they track it and notify the police or ignore it until I can confirm (with a very annoyed phone call) that it isn't where I parked it???
I had always assumed if they couldn't contact me after a short while then they would track it and notify the police. Does anyone know of ANY of the tracking systems that work this way....?
<B>so it shouldn't really be a problem[/quote]
Unless they are not in either, and in that hour its moved from where it was parked to the nearest port.......
Think I'll contact the various trackers and try and get some answers.
I just don't understand why they need to contact someone. For example, if I go off to work and park the car somewhere, but leave my wife's number as an additional contact what use it is going to be phoning her:
tracking person: "Your husband's car is moving without authorisation - has it been stolen":
wife: "No idea, it was parked 100 miles from where I am and he can't be contacted for the rest of the day"
tracking person: "?"
Where does this scenario get them? Do they track it and notify the police or ignore it until I can confirm (with a very annoyed phone call) that it isn't where I parked it???
I had always assumed if they couldn't contact me after a short while then they would track it and notify the police. Does anyone know of ANY of the tracking systems that work this way....?
27 June 2001, 11:29 PM
#29
More for me to check but I believe that all the tracking companies are bound by the same regs - the owner of the vehicle, or at least the keeper at the time, must report the vehicle as missing before the police & they can co-operate for the recovery.
In this day & age, you are unlikely to be uncontactable & if you are someone who is in your trust almost certainly isn't.
It works the same for monitored burglar alarms. If the alarm goes off & their is no reponse from the house concerned (the owners) then the monitors will attempt to get in contact with any of several nominees, to go & check. Never will they just straightway call the police & expect them to turn up.
I will get the "official line" & post it.
In this day & age, you are unlikely to be uncontactable & if you are someone who is in your trust almost certainly isn't.
It works the same for monitored burglar alarms. If the alarm goes off & their is no reponse from the house concerned (the owners) then the monitors will attempt to get in contact with any of several nominees, to go & check. Never will they just straightway call the police & expect them to turn up.
I will get the "official line" & post it.
28 June 2001, 12:18 AM
#30
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Can i just make a point here.
We seem to be getting a bit WHAT/IF.
Navtrack active is going to cost approx £200 inc vat to fit and then 14.99 a month thereafter.
It represents excellent value for money - Tracker and RAC systems cost loads more and covers little else.
Is it better to have "90%" coverage (the last 10% you'd be unlucky not to be covered) than 0% whilst debating the subject? No - its not!! So get it fitted!
My only concern now is about the lack of response from the controller office last friday. Puff was meeting the directors - so i hope he posts their assurances that this wont happen again!
Jza
We seem to be getting a bit WHAT/IF.
Navtrack active is going to cost approx £200 inc vat to fit and then 14.99 a month thereafter.
It represents excellent value for money - Tracker and RAC systems cost loads more and covers little else.
Is it better to have "90%" coverage (the last 10% you'd be unlucky not to be covered) than 0% whilst debating the subject? No - its not!! So get it fitted!
My only concern now is about the lack of response from the controller office last friday. Puff was meeting the directors - so i hope he posts their assurances that this wont happen again!
Jza