Bumpsteer removal in the Southeast/Kent area
03 May 2001, 03:04 PM
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James,
As you said, was done a while back. conclusion was that there might be places down sarf to do it, but it'd be best to get it done up at powerstation.
Maybe once the damge on the beast is sorted I'll get it done.
As you said, was done a while back. conclusion was that there might be places down sarf to do it, but it'd be best to get it done up at powerstation.
Maybe once the damge on the beast is sorted I'll get it done.
03 May 2001, 03:32 PM
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James
I have had the bumpsteer mod done. To be honest £100 is far to cheap for the work, and improvement it makes to the car's handling. You need expensive measuring equipment and a very skilled person to use it, as well as the extra bits they add to the car to remove the bump steer. The fact is not many people are willing to invest in the equipment, hence know one else does it.
Powerstation know what they are doing, they got my bumpsteer down to ZERO degrees. I would say it's worth £100 + the cost of petrol to drive there (IMHO).
Scoobs
I have had the bumpsteer mod done. To be honest £100 is far to cheap for the work, and improvement it makes to the car's handling. You need expensive measuring equipment and a very skilled person to use it, as well as the extra bits they add to the car to remove the bump steer. The fact is not many people are willing to invest in the equipment, hence know one else does it.
Powerstation know what they are doing, they got my bumpsteer down to ZERO degrees. I would say it's worth £100 + the cost of petrol to drive there (IMHO).
Scoobs
03 May 2001, 03:55 PM
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ok...
if someone was prepared to invest in the correct equipment, etc and relavent parts that were required which is obvoius anyway...
I wasn't goint to do it myself!!
Would there be a valid interest....?
J
if someone was prepared to invest in the correct equipment, etc and relavent parts that were required which is obvoius anyway...
I wasn't goint to do it myself!!
Would there be a valid interest....?
J
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03 May 2001, 04:09 PM
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Errr but that Sun wheel alignment stuff costs a fortune does it not ? £50,000 was a figure I have heard (so it's probably wrong, but considering a snapon Screwdriver can cost £45 could be)
Thats an awful lot of £100 bump steer mods.
Thats an awful lot of £100 bump steer mods.
03 May 2001, 04:16 PM
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Gary,
My point exactly, not many places will shell out that amount of cash, but then I guess the equipment can be used for other purposes as well as bumpsteer removal, so it might be of benefit to the company.
james:
you thinking of asking Graham @ GDA if he'd get the equipment be nice and handy for us mate! 
My point exactly, not many places will shell out that amount of cash, but then I guess the equipment can be used for other purposes as well as bumpsteer removal, so it might be of benefit to the company.
james:
you thinking of asking Graham @ GDA if he'd get the equipment
be nice and handy for us mate!
03 May 2001, 04:27 PM
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James,
Barretts already have this mega accurate equipment (accurate to within 1/1000 of a mm or something equally ridiculous), and they give you a full before and after printout which even has a picture of the wheels on it. v.smart!
Barretts already have this mega accurate equipment (accurate to within 1/1000 of a mm or something equally ridiculous), and they give you a full before and after printout which even has a picture of the wheels on it. v.smart!
03 May 2001, 04:40 PM
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Hi James
Just a hunch but i bet a lot of the improvement owners feel from the much vaunted BS mod is actually just having the geometry set properly, as Scoobs are notoriously sensitive to it, rather than the actual "bumpsteer" mod.
In any case, i don't see how you can fully remove bumpsteer as the steering arm MUST effect the toe-in when the suspension is compressed - i'd say that what PS are doing is moving the limit of the bumpsteer, so that it happens later on in the suspension travel, and therefore feels less pronounced.
Get Phil at Barretts to set up your car, it made a HUGE difference to my understeering dog of a car, which is really sharp now.
Regards
Russ
Just a hunch but i bet a lot of the improvement owners feel from the much vaunted BS mod is actually just having the geometry set properly, as Scoobs are notoriously sensitive to it, rather than the actual "bumpsteer" mod.
In any case, i don't see how you can fully remove bumpsteer as the steering arm MUST effect the toe-in when the suspension is compressed - i'd say that what PS are doing is moving the limit of the bumpsteer, so that it happens later on in the suspension travel, and therefore feels less pronounced.
Get Phil at Barretts to set up your car, it made a HUGE difference to my understeering dog of a car, which is really sharp now.
Regards
Russ
03 May 2001, 04:41 PM
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Barretts? Where are they please I was about to travel to Cheltenhanm to have it done. Are the results as Power Station??
Bumpsteer removal with the 4 wheel relinment for £117 all in. I was quoted whats there price plesae?
..Ian (very interested)
03 May 2001, 04:49 PM
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Ian,
I believe barrets are in Canterbury.
One question, I believe they are a UK dealer and as such would not touch the blackbeast as it's a jap import, so would they still do this for me?
How much from them, to do bumpsteer mod?
I believe barrets are in Canterbury.
One question, I believe they are a UK dealer and as such would not touch the blackbeast as it's a jap import, so would they still do this for me?
How much from them, to do bumpsteer mod?
03 May 2001, 05:00 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by RussP:
<B>
In any case, i don't see how you can fully remove bumpsteer as the steering arm MUST effect the toe-in when the suspension is compressed - i'd say that what PS are doing is moving the limit of the bumpsteer, so that it happens later on in the suspension travel, and therefore feels less pronounced.
Regards
Russ[/quote]
Russ,
No, the bump steer mod actually reduces (or in some cases totally removes it). That includes toe-in/out on full compression and full extension of the suspension. If certain parts of the suspension are all parallel, then you don't get bump steer.
As for other places doing it ? Well, I have always said, any place with very accurate equipment, the ability to measure bump steer and with people who 'really' understand suspension geometry, there should be no problems doing this mod.
If you do go somewhere other than Powerstation, then do make sure they really do know what they are doing for the two reasons of a) really doing the mod so if transforms the car and b) safety.
Cheers
Ian
<B>
In any case, i don't see how you can fully remove bumpsteer as the steering arm MUST effect the toe-in when the suspension is compressed - i'd say that what PS are doing is moving the limit of the bumpsteer, so that it happens later on in the suspension travel, and therefore feels less pronounced.
Regards
Russ[/quote]
Russ,
No, the bump steer mod actually reduces (or in some cases totally removes it). That includes toe-in/out on full compression and full extension of the suspension. If certain parts of the suspension are all parallel, then you don't get bump steer.
As for other places doing it ? Well, I have always said, any place with very accurate equipment, the ability to measure bump steer and with people who 'really' understand suspension geometry, there should be no problems doing this mod.
If you do go somewhere other than Powerstation, then do make sure they really do know what they are doing for the two reasons of a) really doing the mod so if transforms the car and b) safety.
Cheers
Ian
03 May 2001, 05:18 PM
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Barretts do Sti servicing thru the motorsports dept - ie the same team that mend David Higgins Rally Car.... so the credentials are pretty good! 
Ian,
but surely, thru the design of any rack and pinion steering system, there MUST be bumpsteer, ie the distance from the mounting point on the strut to the steering rack must lengthen or shorten as the suspension compresses.
Thats why i reckon that all that is happening is the parameters are being changed. Most people on driving a properly sorted scoob with the geometry set correctly will feel a huge improvement over standard, that's why i wonder how much of the improvements are due to the actual lowering of the rack.
Rus
Ian,
but surely, thru the design of any rack and pinion steering system, there MUST be bumpsteer, ie the distance from the mounting point on the strut to the steering rack must lengthen or shorten as the suspension compresses.
Thats why i reckon that all that is happening is the parameters are being changed. Most people on driving a properly sorted scoob with the geometry set correctly will feel a huge improvement over standard, that's why i wonder how much of the improvements are due to the actual lowering of the rack.
Rus
03 May 2001, 05:25 PM
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Russ,
Not 100% to be honest, I'm no real suspension expert. But I have seen a Scooby with zero bumpsteer having it measured through the range of full suspension travel.
No idea, ask me one on sport
Cheers
Ian
Not 100% to be honest, I'm no real suspension expert. But I have seen a Scooby with zero bumpsteer having it measured through the range of full suspension travel.
No idea, ask me one on sport
Cheers
Ian
03 May 2001, 05:49 PM
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Scuse my ignorance but whats Bumpsteer? Understand the fix is some kind of suspension tweak but whats it all about???
Do MY01's benefit as their steering and handling is better by all acounts anyway.
Do MY01's benefit as their steering and handling is better by all acounts anyway.
03 May 2001, 05:57 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by RussP:
<B> My question is this....
WHY IS FOOTBALL SO BLOODY BORING?
Rus[/quote]
Whoa, Russ, don't go there, we don't want a holy war here
(I do agree though, football is the dumbest game ever, why don't they all aim at one goal, save running about etc.)
DT,
Bump steer is the tendency for the wheels to toe-in/out under suspension compression/extension. This causes understeer. Remove it and the car turns in better and becomes more stable.
Whether the MY01 needs it ? No ides, maybe talk to Powerstation and see if they have measured one yet ?
Cheers
Ian
<B> My question is this....
WHY IS FOOTBALL SO BLOODY BORING?
Rus[/quote]
Whoa, Russ, don't go there, we don't want a holy war here
(I do agree though, football is the dumbest game ever, why don't they all aim at one goal, save running about etc.)
DT,
Bump steer is the tendency for the wheels to toe-in/out under suspension compression/extension. This causes understeer. Remove it and the car turns in better and becomes more stable.
Whether the MY01 needs it ? No ides, maybe talk to Powerstation and see if they have measured one yet ?
Cheers
Ian
03 May 2001, 06:03 PM
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It's all a matter of getting the steering arm linear with the lower suspension arm.
Then suspension movement won't affect steering input.
This is often played with in R/C...something I've dabbled a wee bit in.
Nothing fancy really, the trick is to get it right.
Which is a whole other story...
Then suspension movement won't affect steering input.
This is often played with in R/C...something I've dabbled a wee bit in.
Nothing fancy really, the trick is to get it right.
Which is a whole other story...
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