michaeldanielw

Hi All

I have had my WRX hawkeye (56 plate) for a few months now and was over the moon with the power when i got it as it already had the PPP intsalled and is around 265bhp. I've been reading if i want to get it to 300bhp i basically need a new turbo? Alternatively is there anything else i can do to get it to say 290bhp without blowing up the engine?!

Any advice welcome as I'm a total tuning novice

markb5888

the standard td04 on the wrx wont get over 300bhp, so to get over 300bhp you would want a new turbo. full de-cat exhaust. up-pipe and downpipe, and a decent re-map from one of the mappers on hear. this is only a basic idea of mods. obviously there is many different option turbo/injectors ect..

michaeldanielw

Yeah this is what I thought. Is there no other smaller upgrades I could do to take it to 290 and not have to change the turbo or will it be to risky?

scotty boy 80

iTrader: (5)

Probably get to about 275 - 280 roughly on the td04 but change the turbo it will be worth the pennies every time the boost kicks in

mrjelly

iTrader: (6)

I have a 2006 hawk on standard turbo and it is 288bhp on an open source map, but wouldnt go any more.
Need a better air filter (K&N or cossie), walbro fuel pump or similar (this wasnt done on wrx ppp kit), and full 3 inch decat (2.5inch I was told would not allow the maximum available), including downpipe and a better y pipe, but if yours has ppp kit then this was changed to the blue prodrive y pipe on hawk wrxs - you dont need a decat up-pipe on hawks.
When I added this to the wrx, mid 2012 was
walbro £70
filter £36
milltek full decat £1100
remap £250 (would be nearer £500 for ecutek ratrher than open source)
Plus around £300 for labour costs, though I did also get coilovers fitted (I supplied) and alignment done (I put in the walbro myself).
After that you'll probabaly want 18 inch wheels, better brakes, whiteline arbs bushes alloy droplinks etc and then you still wont be satisfied and will always think what next you can do for that little bit extra - modding is a slippery slope my friend......
if you change the turbo you need to consider spool up - I also have a hawk sti (368bhp) and she doesnt kick in quick enough - so Im considering a twin scroll or something like a hybrid for her. I had a hybrid on a classic wrx before and it was absolutely the best of both worlds, quick to spool and had the grunt further up the revs

michaeldanielw

Wow thanks for All the advice... My head feels like it's gonna explode! So if I put all the extras you have put on on top of the PPP will it not be too much for my engine as it's all ready 265 bhp? What I need to get my head around is- if I keep tuning the engine will it just keep getting more powerful until the turbo blows up or will it just get to a certain level then not give anymore? I hope this makes sense? As you can probably tell I haven't got a clue!

mrjelly

iTrader: (6)

Im not an expert and no doubt folks on here will know a lot more about it and shoot me down - I am only going by my own experience and what I have been told through the process...although I have had 6 scoobs.
The smaller turbo cannot produce anymore power than 280-290bhp. Its not really a case of tuning the engine it will cope (subject to the poor head studs that are on the 2.5 and the piston seals). The remap configures everything to run just right based on optimum fuel to air ratio, exact detonation as piston hits bottom of chamber etc. The higher capacity fuel pump ensures enough fuel is pumped in, the filter and the map sensors ensure the correct mix of air and fuel and boost and the map sets timings for the correct detonation. The bigger bore exhaust and the decat ensure there is less restriction in removing waste gasses.
So the bits and bobs are to enable the turbo etc to reach optimum performance. Although I think turbos and engines etc have a little variation you cannot get 300bhp out of the td04. If you make the turbo boost at a higher rate (tho I don’t think you will find a mapper who would do this) then it wont cope with the extra pressure and it will blow without gaining any extra power to your engine.
I hope someone else can explain and give you better and more accurate details, but I dont think you will notice a significant improvement over your ppp (266bhp) certainly not enough to justify the expense of the extra bits I put on.
A new filter and probably a walbro would benefit your car anyway.
You would be better just getting a decat downpipe (heat wrap it too) or a sport cat, and a remap (I think it is a standard down pipe with the wrx ppp as well – its only a stainless back box upgrade) so this is probably the main restrictive factor on your car. BUT you will need the remap to adjust to the different exhaust. Check that your car has the uprated y pipe though – this is deffo needed. If you look towards the intercooler from the front, towards the left hand side you should see a dark blue silicone pipe sticking out from beneath and you should just about be able to see prodrive stamped on it in white.
The other thing which is 100% worth doing is going out with the mapper and get him to adjust your car to how you want it to be. Not only is it a great experience but you will get your car to respond how you want it to when you give her throttle.
One other thing go along to some meets of your local Scooby club and talk to other people and maybe gain knowledge and first hand experience of what others have done.

Its funny because I also wanted my wrx to kick 300 – but was told right off by mapper NO. The 2 reasons for me were, I had an MY99 uk turbo that was over 300 and I thought it was possible until I realised that car had a hybrid, custom built turbo. The other stupid **** reason was my neighbour had an evo FQ300 which I thought stood for 300bhp – don’t know what it does stand for but those evos only had 286bhp – hence why I absolutely had to have as much as possible out of my wrx. Although he crashed that and I now have a hawk STi as well. Note my wrx is more fun than the STi cos she spools so much quicker and is a bit lighter (the STi has the heavier 6 speed box for a start) but the STi has so much grunt its awesome in other ways.

I hope this helps – but remember some of this may not be 100% accurate.

Cheers
Ken

michaeldanielw

Yeah thanks it really helps and I will take all this on board. Thanks for your time

smiffywhu

Is there a reason why people get WRX's and then spend loads on them trying to get them to a STI spec, sorry if I sound sarcastic but it seems a popular thing to do and yet a don't see the point?

Shaunby 300

Its called tuning, people with sti's do it too.

smiffywhu

now you're being sarcy, my question was why try and turn a WRX into a STI rather than just buy a STI.Is it cheaper to do the upgrades yourself?
Cheers

michaeldanielw

To be honest I wish I had bought an STI now. I had no intention of tuning my wrx when I bought it, but a few of my work pals are really into so it's got me interested.

Shaunby 300

Some people prefer the softer ride and more sedate looks of the wrx but want more power so adding sti parts is the easy way to get it.

smiffywhu

Thanks for your answers, one main reason I asked was I read when tuning a WRX remembering to upgrade the brakes are a must,that struck me as an expensive and "non-fun" upgrade.Call me a thicko but how do I start my own thread?
Cheers
Dale

mrjelly

iTrader: (6)

I have both a hawk wrx and a hawk STi – people say and think I’m mad and maybe I am because the STi is the more satisfying car NOW that I have modded it lots too….

I had a standard hawk STi before and being honest it was pretty crap compared to the modded classics I had before it, but it looked great even without any extra bits. I only kept that car 3 months and then bought a heavily modded hawk STi and that car was totally awesome but I still spent £3.5k in 3 months adding and changing bits - £1200 on front brakes alone (parts only). Then I had an accident and lost the car.
I wanted another scoob but at the time (6 months after crash) couldn’t find a decent STi especially as I didn’t want to travel too far from Aberdeen so I bought what looked like a prodrived wrx cos it had the full kit on but only looked the part. I very soon got the mods done and uprated most parts over the next few months. The car is also lowered on the coilovers and I added bigger, nicer alloys and she has a chargespeed carbon front splitter which looks great. So I cant say that I like the sedate looks of a wrx - because I don’t.
It does seem like I was trying to make the car look and be like my previous STi and it was said “why didn’t you get an STi”
I then bought a classic wagon (modded to 265) as a run around which needed some tlc and I loved that car loads, but the wrx was better and much more exciting to drive. Absolutely no doubt my wrx is better than a standard STi – this is also the opinion of others who have driven her – Andy at RA Motorsport says she has awesome mid-range punch for a wrx.
I sold the wagon but then just thought I want another STI so I bought one too. She needed some work cos although was prodrived she wasn’t boosting right and the downpipe cat had collapsed along with various other problems which I got rectified. Decat exhaust, competition clutch, coilovers new wheels etc and a remap and now she has loads of grunt and is pretty awesome too.
So its not really about whether you get an STi or a wrx you tend to just mod them anyways – probably the question is why don’t we just buy FQ360 or 400 EVO 8 or 9s (not 10s I tested an FQ360 EVO 10 and the standard STi was more exciting to drive) - I would have bought an EVO 8 or 9 if I could find a blue one to buy – but I love how my scoobs look and sound and I would still have at least one scoob on my drive.
Some people buy wrxs because theres so much more you can do to them, some people like the wolf in “sheeps clothing” bit too and like the sedate looks !
I have 3 (blue) cars and each time I get in any one of them I think why isn’t this my only car cos its great…..
The STi is brutal and has awesome grunt but she doesn’t drive as well as the wrx and is not as exciting around my local back roads– although I have only added coilovers as yet and not uprated the arbs etc.
The wrx turbo spools quicker and kicks in from lower revs. She is lighter and genuinely fun to blast about and I don’t want to get rid of her just because I have an STi – they both look great and are just as exciting as each other – the only thing is I am a bit guilty of feeling more satisfied in the STi, for one thing she is even louder than the wrx and she has the STi badge on her which people recognise as a fast car so I feel more big headed.
These day you can get a decent hawk or a 2008 hatch, STi for £8-10K and a decent wrx for £5.5-7K if you are prepared to look, wait and travel, but at that price they want have been forged or have all the reliable power you want.
I uprated the brakes on my wrx but cant say there is too much difference from the brakes that were already on the car. I have also done this to the STi and its the same – but the brakes I put on the previous STi were amazing – you get what you pay for !

Don’t regret buying a wrx, it is a great car and when modded a little is much better than a stock STi which you would definitely want to mod from the start.
Enjoy your car and learn from it but its probably best FOR YOU not to shell out lots of cash on a car you will always wish was an STi. But, only you can make up your mind what you want – like I said before, change the downpipe and remap your car it would probably be enough for you.
By the way as well as the filter and pump, its probably worth changing the spark plugs too – cost circa £40

If you are on a quest for power then you will have to spend and spend or wait for a forged and modded car to come up and then be lucky and quick enough to get it. The “terminator” hawk that was sold on here recently could have been yours for £15.5K – she was definitely worth the money. It’s the only non blue hawk that I have looked at and thought jeez I bloomin want that !

Cheers
Ken

smiffywhu

Great info Ken, I bought a blue hawkeye 2007 STI last summer for £8.5K and having previosly owned a classic I'm disappionted in first gear and, as many say, the power before 3000rpm aswell as the outrageous £510 tax yearly bill and running costs!!I'm a massive "tight-****" and spending a fortune or tuning isn't my thing at all, but what would you (or anyone else reading) suggest to do with say £500-£1000 in terms of BHP and Torque increases.I live in Lowestoft and no local Subaru specialists that I know of this way.(sorry for "thread crashing" but I don't know how to start my own thread)

Cheers Dale

mrjelly

iTrader: (6)

I’m not sure but I think you have to post 10 times or something to start your own thread….then click the orange icon at the top left of the forum that says new thread

If you have a standard hawk sti and you had classics before then yes it will be disappointing it is a much heavier car with a slow to spool turbo. If you want it better for power and torque you need new filter and prob the walbro (both easy enough to fit yourself) a different exhaust and a remap. You can get exhausts off here easily enough and cheap enough too, but I think my cobra decat downpipe was only £130 new (although a different middle and rear were already fitted). The remap will cost anything between £200 and £500 but you may also have to pay for the mappers time on top of that. Scooby world will do an EcuTek remap equivalent to ppp map for £540
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct...61725948,d.Yms

Look around for a local club meet and join in with them, they may get together to get a mapper to come down for a day or two and map all the cars. Or travel to a mapper – that’s what I did, but some motorsport garages have map days. There are more than likely people on here who could help you out with a map as well – Scottishscoobies has loads of helpful folk that map and develop cars for example and we have regional meets too.

Here is a link to the hawk sti prodrive info.
http://www.prodrive.com/up/06MY%20STi%20PPP.pdf

It does not say there is any change to the cat or to a high flow pipe or anything else just a different back box, which you can get off here for next to **** all – I have one sitting in my garage for example. I’m not sure if you even need an exhaust change, although I think the cat downpipe is a serious restriction. Mine was goosed on the latest STi I bought that had the pp pack, but this may have been a different pipe swapped in to sell it, although guy had put on a custom built middle and rear section for noise and to have the jap angle out - which may have caused problems with the ppp map.

But I would deffo advise getting car mapped to the way you want it and be there, and that probably means an open source mapper. Remember the ppp just makes it a bit better, 316bhp (320ps) and 332 torque but I don’t think it helps at all with the feeling of waiting for the turbo to kick in when you hoof it. Note my STi is now 368 bhp and 398 torque and I am not happy with the wait for the turbo to kick in so am looking into a twin scroll or a hybrid turbo – when I get money ha ha !

Also note putting on a decat exhaust means a lot of hassle come mot time to swap over pipes and then not drive her on boost until swap back.

If you are a tight **** though – I’m afraid you’re wallet and everything else takes second priority once you start adding bits to your scoob….so you’d best either not start modding or just accept you will have to shell out cash.
Cheers
Ken

smiffywhu

Wow, What a great post.No wonder these forums are so popular with guys like yourself putting so much effort into helping out.All the exhaust stuff confuses me,"I thought the STI came with a decent exhaust" were my thoughts whilst reading your reply, to show how backwards I am when it comes to tuning.Am I right however to think you do your bits and pieces and then get it mapped afterwards,and then re-map it each time you do a new mod?Again I'm sorry for being so thick but us thicko's appreciate your answers more-than-ever!!

michaeldanielw

Wow Ken you are like the orical of the impreza! So basically for my wrx I need decat and remap on top of the PPP. Also add air filter and walbro fuel pump and that will get me about the mac I can get out of the td04 turbo?

And dale to post new thread you got to the very top of the page - forums- community- scooby general- then scroll right to the bottom of all the threads and there'll be a little orange botton says ' new thread' that's all I can help you with as I also know nothing about cars haha

smiffywhu

Thanks Michael,

Enjoy the rampant WRX and be safe.

mrjelly

iTrader: (6)

Im not an oracle - Im just going by what has been passed on to me and google helps !!!
reading threads on here and other sites helps a lot too.

I have started a new thread asking about exhaust changes to see others opinions.

Basically anything that changes what the engine sucks in and spits out should be remapped or get map tweaked to allow for optimum performance.
I have also put up a thread as to why a prodrived hawk wrx is better than sti - to which I already have had a snidey comment ha ha
Ken