GaryC

There is EU legislation going though at the moment that will make any aftermarket exhaust that is 'noisier' (ie gives a higher dB level) than the OEM exhaust illegal If successful, all exhaust parts will have to be approved by the EU/governing body and stamped to show compliance to this legislation in this matter. The stamp will also have to show which vehicle the exhaust is made and approved for

Primarily aimed at motorbikes, but will apply to all vehicles

This will be just yet another way for the 'little hitlers in blue' and New Labia to persecute and oppress the motorist for financial and statistical gain

Yet another letter to MEP anyone?


There goes the enquiry of a Scoobysport exhaust for my 330d

wacko

Best way round this is to get Subaru to approve a suitable back box, and sell it as an option. Naturally it possibly wont sound as good as some of them out there

Fat Boy

Wacko
They already do - it's called the P1 backbox by Prodrive

Hanslow

Does this hold true only for new items that are bought and hence you can only buy approved or for back boxes that you may already own?

Bit of a bummer if this comes into being and means I can't keep my scoobysport

What does this mean to companies that provide the excellent third party back boxes?

Do they seek approval or do they lose a lot of hard work and effort and product line?

Of course, the above is me being my usual pessimist (sp?) and assuming the legislation is approved. Why wouldn't it be, it is geared towards us lowly environment unfriendly motorists.

Don't see the point personally, if one manufacturer puts a back box on that is just under the dB limit, and another much less, you would not be able to buy a louder back box for the second manufacturer even if it was quieter than the first manufacturers

What a load of tosh.

Rant over.

Daemon_G

Just by the way...

We did some noise levels tests last autumn and below is some detail about SS backbox vs OEM

Noise levels measured outside on a 4-door MY99 50cm from pipe.

OEM
---
RPM -> db
500 > 70
2500 > 81
4000 > 83

SS backbox
---
RPM -> db
500 > 78
2500 > 84
4000 > 88
v.v. high revs -> 103

SS downpipe + backbox
---
RPM -> db
500 > 80
2500 > 87
4000 > 91
v.v. high revs -> 106

Noise levels measured inside on a 4-door MY99 with mic near roof light. (4th means 4th gear, etc)

OEM
---
50kmh (4th) -> 70
70kmh (4th) -> 73
90kmh (4th) -> 74
110km (5th) -> 75

SS backbox
---
50kmh (4th) -> 69
70kmh (4th) -> 73
90kmh (4th) -> 75
110km (5th) -> 76

SS downpipe + backbox
---
50kmh (4th) -> 70
70kmh (4th) -> 73
90kmh (4th) -> 75
110km (5th) -> 76

As can be seen, noise levels inside the car vary very slightly between OEM and SS. However, on the outside there is of course a difference. I can't remember the legal levels though...

/Joe90

... all this can be viewed in Swedish at

TFyus

if they were to pass that law it would result in many redundancies from performance exhaust companies... that would upset the voting public...

anyhows they'll never stop us

rw

Steve Breen

The Prodrive P1 back box would probably fall foul of this law in exactly the same way as the Scoobysport. The reason the P1 was not fitted with it as standard was because it only just passes the EU noise emmision standard (and the more lenient "Super Car" ones at that) with the more muted OEM STi exhaust.

I remember when a similar EU regulation was passed in the late 80's for motor bikes. Everyone was saying how rediculous it was, and most of the bikes of the day wouldn't pass due to mechanical noise let alone an aftermarket exhaust. They still passed the regulation and this is why most bikes these days are water cooled.

The police can already stop you now under one of the traffic acts if they wish.

Steve

Pete Croney

Daemon

Very interesting tests.

Gary, I did not know anything about this, but then why would this government consult anyone in an industry they were planning to wipe out.

Hayward and Scott are a minnow in comparison to the likes of Janspeed and Magnex, who cater for all makes of car. I also have my doubts that the likes of the major "pattern" exhausts would pass the test. It would spell the end of companies like Arvin as well.

I already see a potential way around it. We could make a baffle that goes into the exhaust and brings the noise down to OE levels, so it could get the required Approval. The customer could then, if they wished, remove this baffle Hey Presto, a "stamped up" box that sounds like it should

My biker friends have bought BSI stickers for their "cans". That seems to work for them.

If Gary had posted up that this government was bringing a rule that meant you had to have Peter Mandelson hanging out of the back of you, once a month, in order to keep your car, it would no longer be a surprise.

The sooner Blair and Prescott are given their P45's the better.

Bosozoku

...and if they did pass the legislation that Pete suggests, how many of you would do it, if that's what it took to keep you car?

Blow Dog

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Pete Croney:
<B>The sooner Blair and Prescott are given their P45's the better.[/quote]

At last, someone talks sense!

Cem

RB5SCOTT

The sooner Blair and Prescott are given their P45's the better.[/B][/QUOTE]

fair comment Pete, i definately won't be voting labour(ers)

Conservative for me(80mph speed limits,lower fuel tax,less cameras). now thats a carrot if ever i've seen one

Scott

RB5SCOTT

The sooner Blair and Prescott are given their P45's the better.[/B][/QUOTE]

fair comment Pete, i definately won't be voting labour(ers)

Conservative for me(80mph speed limits,lower fuel tax,less cameras). now thats a carrot if ever i've seen one

Scott

Mr Footlong

iTrader: (7)

Yup, if I had my way, Gordon Brown, Tony Blair and John Prescott should all have 'Phallus' Tattooed onto their foreheads for thinking that they could actually run this Country.


Nick

P.S Pete, you rock! Can't wait to get my baby back tomorrow, complete with new exhaust goodies! Blow my downpipe Labour!

Simon, feel free to adjust/delete as necessary


Opps, typo king!

[This message has been edited by Mr Footlong (edited 27 April 2001).]

mutant_matt

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Pete Croney:
<B>I already see a potential way around it. We could make a baffle that goes into the exhaust and brings the noise down to OE levels, so it could get the required Approval. The customer could then, if they wished, remove this baffle Hey Presto, a "stamped up" box that sounds like it should

My biker friends have bought BSI stickers for their "cans". That seems to work for them.[/quote]

Careful though, I was reading in Performance Bikes only today the exhaust test and they quoted a couple of cases where some one got done for "Perverting the course of justice" for stamping BS AU193 (bike exhaust standard) on a race (loud) can.....

Matt

Ross Taylor

Argh!

My Type R has the S/S Downpipe and Backbox...I've always got my heart in my mouth whenever I go past our Volvo T5 driving friends...5 gear and trailing throttle are the order of the day! I heard about a P1 being stopped last weekend by Grampians finest, up in Old Deer..."Illegally Loud Exhaust"...Don't know the outcome tho'...

Mick

iTrader: (1)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Pete Croney:
<B>Daemon

I also have my doubts that the likes of the major "pattern" exhausts would pass the test. It would spell the end of companies like Arvin as well.
....The sooner Blair and Prescott are given their P45's the better.[/quote]

Pete 'Arvin' are now part of ArvinMeritor group with a turnover of $7.5 billion !!! They are now ArvinMeritor Exhaust Systems and provide approx 1/3 of all OE exhaust systems worldwide.

'Arvin Replacement Products' - formerly TIMAX supply the aftermarket side and will design systems to meet the legal requirements and not necessarily anything more. If the Law changes they will change the product to match and presumably the price will increase since the parts will be more costly to produce. The overall dB level is not the only important part of the exhaust tailpipe noise - as I'm sure you are well aware, but there are very many people who just want the cheapest legal parts to keep their vehicles running

I do agree that all this EU harmonisation garbage needs to end. We must pull out of the EU. Rejecting the EURO will get us nowhere just drag things out by a tiny amount !

See this website for some hard facts:

GaryC

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by waynelivesey:
<B>At the end of the day who gives a sh't!
If anybody (plod-ministry) is clued up enough to check for illegal backboxes,then surerly they will also be aware of CAT removal?
Something weve all been doing for ages! (and i think we all know thats illegal?)[/quote]


Hi Wayne That was my first thought, BUT - downpipes can only be discovered with emmisions equipment, and arn't notciable when dricing past the enemy, with noise levels, every jobs-worth little hitler in a blue uniform (especially in Lancashire ) will stop loud 'uns and and check for the relevant stamps etc. Lets face it, they need no encouragement to stop impreza drivers I got stopped on average once a week when I had mine all for nothing Thats one of the reasons I sold it

Complain with your 'X' on June 7th!! and get us out of Europe!

waynelivesey

At the end of the day who gives a sh't!
If anybody (plod-ministry) is clued up enough to check for illegal backboxes,then surerly they will also be aware of CAT removal?
Something weve all been doing for ages! (and i think we all know thats illegal?)

Simon

I sure hope it doesn't go the same way as it has in OZ.

In Australia all aftermarket products, exhausts,filters,etc have to be approved by the EPA to ensure they meet emission/noise regs. Items such as externally venting blow of valves are illegal.

Simon

Mick

iTrader: (1)

Gary

I've never been stopped in the Scoob in Lancs - Obviously I'm not fast or loud enough

Did get stopped a few times as a biker though

Mick

JohnD

iTrader: (5)

When looking at those test results dont forget that every 3dB increase is TWICE the sound pressure level. So, if two Scoobs, each producing, say 88dB are measured together the result would be 91dB. seperation distance from the sound has also a major effect (Attenuation of sound law) i.e. pressure level will increase or reduce by the square of the distance. Also it is generally true that a low frequency sound at a given dB level is less annoying or obtrusive than a high frequency sound at the same dB. I have access to a dB meter if anyones interested!!
At the end of the day it all boils down to the fact that noise annoys, and is a major form of pollution. So all you sad gits out there with loud exhausts are anti-social and irresponsible- so there!
JohnD - (99my Scoobysport b/b + downpipe)!!

Nico van Steen

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JohnD:
[So all you sad gits out there with loud exhausts are anti-social and irresponsible- so there!

All the extra noise actually increased safety in the neighbourhood where I live. With the OEM exhaust kids would keep on playing and jumping onto the street in front of the car. Now with the SS backbox+DP the stop playing and start watching...... How's that for increasing road safety?

Nico

Mr Footlong

iTrader: (7)

The man has a point......

Nick (Awaiting his nur spec r system next week to go with the Scoobysport downpipe!! )

[This message has been edited by Mr Footlong (edited 30 April 2001).]

RB5SCOTT

Most bike riders with race cans say that its safer to be loud because cars know their coming

Dave T-S

Pete

"If Gary had posted up that this government was bringing a rule that meant you had to have Peter Mandelson hanging out of the back of you, once a month, in order to keep your car, it would no longer be a surprise."

ROFL - but peeeerrrleese......it's breakfast time!!!

Pete and Blowdog
"The sooner Blair and Prescott are given their P45's the better."

- I wish - but I bet the bunch of reptiles get in again.....

PS - I like the thought of running an illegal exhaust......just imagine the scenario - Hayward & Scott go into hiding and you have to be checked out to make sure you are not one of the Feds before you are sold one.......

gary cosworth

how can they say a p1 back box is loud when you compair it to a tvr or an aston thats loud will these cars be made illegal i dont think so it should go on a max noise level like it is now and the eu should be scrapped
cheeRS gary
ps blair out presscot go on a diet and peter get a girlfriend

MikeWood

As an extra point, most of our silencers are 'e' marked which means that they are compliant with the regulations mentioned. This does take some time and therefore cost, but we will be doing it in the near future for the various WRX silencers we sell.

Mike

mutant_matt

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Ross Taylor:
<B>...I've always got my heart in my mouth whenever I go past our Volvo T5 driving friends...5 gear and trailing throttle are the order of the day![/quote]

Even better, (I used to use this when I had a loud can on one of my bikes) pull in the clutch and coast passed on idle....even less noise (use this for passing horses too...)

Matt

pramrace

I hope they dont ive changed my P1 back box and put a magnex box on and it sounds GREAT.

chiark

Rules can always be bent. As an example, the Ferrari 360 Spider: every journo has wondered how the hell it passed the noise level testing...