MedicInAUK300

iTrader: (5)

Picked up my UK300 this week (Tuesday) from a car dealership in Dinnington called Britania Motors and was given a PPP Cert. but there are no PPP items on the car, pretty pissed to be honest. Will teach me to look better next time but drove 6 hours to get there and was not exactly feeling tiptop when I got there.

I have tried to contact the previous owner (who apparently sold the UK300 to Britania) who was also a member here, Mikec998

Car in itself is perfect but gutted not to have the PPP on it as the certificate claims. Never got the car to make big BHP and was happy to find this cert. but upon inspection no PPP parts are on it.

I know there is not much I can do now but how there hell did a certificate get produced for a car that clearly doesn't have it.

This is more of a rant than anything else but hope it serves to remind anyone looking at buying a car to check fully before you hand over your cash.

So pissed off right now, but oh well I will see if I can find the components myself and fit them....

RS_Matt

Mine had PPP (according to the SHEFFIELD CAR PEOPLE) but no certificate and only 225bhp, very strange.

MedicInAUK300

iTrader: (5)

Makes you wonder just how much the PPP certificate is worth lol. Scoob is fine, I am totally in love lol but kinda can't help but think that those lovely items I was looking forward to getting my hands on was no more than the result of a support bra

Kinda throws the other paper work I received in doubt which included a £1000 service back in May for cambelt etc. I have contact the garage that is supposed to have carried out this work in the hope they can confirm that it did indeed have the service and parts listed on the invoice. Fingers crossed..

thenewgalaxy

Solicitors?

You've been sold something that isn't what was advertised.

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

+1 get straight onto trading standards. I take it you have complained to the seller? Had you paid for the car before you viewed it or something?

sivo

iTrader: (30)

That's a bit naughty !....
I would be asking for a partial refund.

My sti has full dealer receipts for when the ppp was fitted and a sticker in the drivers door shut.
No certificate tho
Is it possible to get a copy ?

Siv

d13ano

iTrader: (1)

Have you opened the ecu? The ppp uses the stock ecu and if it is ppp there will be a gems piggy back board fitted inside the ecu. The uk300 should have the ecu as i've stated, prodrive back box, prodrive intercooler Y pipe, hella head lights, blue suede interior same as the sti but with out the sti logo, prodrive rear spoiler and 18" prodrive alloys same as fitted to the P1 and the black front bumper splitter. I sold mine 2 weeks ago, it was fitted with the ppp but wasn't impressed with the power to be honest. I've had non turbo's that felt more powerful so the ppp is a bit over rated in my honest opinion.

d13ano

iTrader: (1)

I just seen you're other post with the pictures. The only things i can't comment on is the ecu and intercooler Y pipe as everything else is standard uk300. I think if you opened the ecu it will have the ppp board fitted.

Fudgey

iTrader: (1)

It can have ppp but without the ecu upgrade as i belive. My uk300 has the lot and 2 days afrer buying it put it on the rollers to make sure the engine was ok etc. made 240bhp/238lbft

Not fastest thing in the world mind lol

The other ppp bits are just the silicon hose on the intercooler and the prodrive backbox i think?

daveyj

iTrader: (1)

If you are that aggrieved by it quote the sales of good act which covers you against mis-sold goods. Trading standards will advise you best.

Hawkeye D

Maybe it did have PPP at one stage, and a previous owner put it back to standard?

Depends if the garage were selling it advertised with PPP or it was just a bonus (or so you thought) when you found / were given the certificate?

Does your certificate show the full chassis, date and mileage when PPP was fitted?

EssexJamie

iTrader: (5)

Does the car have UK300 on the log book, or come up as a UK300 when you search on askmid?
As it will have PPP if it's a UK300 as it was done at Prodrive, looking at your pictures you have the Prodrive Hella lights, the Prodrive front Lip (although not black it's been colour coded by previous owner) looks like the Prodrive Backbox, Prodrive Blue Suede Interior, Prodrive 18" OZ wheels, Prodrive Spoiler...

So you just need to check the Y-Pipe under the Intercooler, to make sure the 2nd decat has been deleted (it will still have a heat shield where the 2nd cat should be so check it's def not a Cat under there, as I though mine had a Cat due to the heat shield a brough a decat went to fit it and it had a decat lol)
An then check the ECU, or get a rolling road done should be 245BHP

WacPo

I think this will be a very difficult case to take via Trading Standards and a big issue will be exactly what is a PPP.

I recently bought a WRX PPP which came with a certificate, I could see that it had the Y pipe and back box but I didn't check the ECU. It also had a pile of PPP 'visual' goodies ranging from wheels to gear ****.

In an effort to find out the full PPP spec of my 05 car I contacted the supplying dealer. He confirmed the detail of the full service history but could not elaborate on the PPP spec. However he did give me a name and number of someone at Scooby UK who could help.

I contacted him only for him to explain that Scooby UK kept no records of the full spec.
They only needed to know about the Prodrive engine up-grade because that was cover in a UK wide warranty.

Another issue will be, what original parts should you expect to see on a 2001 car?
99% of people on this forum will have renewed/upgraded parts on their cars. I'm sure there will be may cars out there who's spec will not match the cars original 'label'.

To go back to the PPP thing, as we can see from this string already, some owners have Cert's, some don't. The power's vary and the spec's vary wildly.

The point I make from all this PPP thing is - if the garage can't tell me the spec, if Subaru UK can't tell me the spec, if the spec on the forums vary wildly, then how can I as a punter show that I've been de-frauded.

Of course none of this takes away from the fact that the car should be 'as advertised'.

I have huge sympathy for Medic, but this would not be straight forward. I would go back to the salesman and ask for some money back or get them to take the car back because its not what was advertised. Threaten them with publicity or Trading Standards BUT, have your fingers crossed!

Good luck.

LuckyWelshchap

There's a few mentions of you being mis-sold, and you have, imo there's absolutely no doubt about that.

Judging from your words I assume that you bought the car because it was allegedly PPP ie. you wouldn't have looked at it otherwise?

The PPP is an acknowledged enhancement, almost like a model in its own right and as such if the car was advertised as such, and you bought it as such then they haven't a leg to stand on.

If you decide to take it all the way (to Court) imo all you would have to do is provide evidence as to a PPP being a 'sub-model' in its own right (easy - just find a write-up on PPP and a few ads) and take pictures of the car showing the lack of expected enhancements (I STRONGLY suggest that you do this asap, preferably dating the pics. This will prevent the seller from a defence that you could have stripped the car).

I can see where WacPo is coming from but a very important thing to be aware of is that in a civil court (which Small Claims is) it is 'balance of probability' that is the key, which is far less than 'beyond reasonable doubt'.
In this case it would be that it was definitely a PPP at some point (certificate) and it wasn't when advertised and sold. The balance of probability is therefore that it was mis-sold, and even if the trader was taken in, that's their lookout.

WacPo

You make some good points here and to add to them, if you choose to take the garage to a Small Claims Court, the cost is not prohibitive (about 100 quid I think), but more importantly, YOU take them to a Court in YOUR local area.
Hence, they have to travel the 8 hours to get to your court and it is common that the defendants simply not bother turning up. They will then automatically loose the case!

But to play Devil's Advocate for a minute, if they DO turn up andI were a defence solicitor representing the garage, I would make the following points:

1. The supplying dealer does not know the spec
2. Subaru UK does not know the spec
3. Threads on that font of all knowledge (ScoobyNet) demonstrates that the spec varies wildly.
ie some have cert's, some don't,
some have stickers on the slam panel/door reveal, some don't
the list goes on with tuning, suspension and styling all differing.

"The vehicle came to my client with a genuine Prodrive Certificate - and thats what he believed he sold (Your Honour)"!

Medic, I am completely on your side, I just say that it ain't easy.
Try blagging him first and threaten him with a huge pile of **** if they don't give you some money back.

LuckyWelshchap

I'd agree with (all of) that.

You can't ordinarily recover legal costs in a SCC (the case has to involve more than £5K the last time I looked) but the defendant will probably incur costs, if only for a consultation.

They can however, ask for the case to be heard in their local court (but of course that's more legal expense for them).

If you keep the claim to around those costs then it's obviously better for them to come to an arrangement.

Finally, don't take them straight to Court.
A so-called 'letter before action' giving them at least (only) 30 days to cough up is required, or you risk prejudicing your claim by being premature.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Hang on a sec here before you get all legal etc. Have you contacted the supplying dealer (Britannia) and asked them about the PPP? They probably don't know either and may offer you a partial refund as a gesture of goodwill. It has to be worth a try before either letting it go or getting legal on them doesn't it?

Far too many threads on here these days descend immediately into comments about solicitors, trading standards and fill up with advice from self appointed forum legal experts before the obvious things have been covered like calling up the seller and asling them a a few friendly questions.

Aaron1978

iTrader: (12)

What parts are missing exactly?

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

Is it red by any chance.

The reason I ask is my car was dealer owned for 2yrs and has all the PPP parts but no certificate my PPP ecu has a sticker on it to say it's from another car, I was informed by the previous owner that purchased the car from afore mentioned dealer, they simply removed all the parts off a PPP car that came in as a trade in and put them onto my car which was one of the sales guys company car, and was then sold on with all the parts still on it.

TBH I don't care about the certificate because if I had it, it would have the wrong reg on anyway so no point.

Wouldn't surprise me if something like this happened to others over the years.

Midlife......

iTrader: (2)

Bug uk300's only came in blue.......and they came with the Prodrive WR Sport package fitted as standard IIRC (Don't think it was called the PPP at that stage)

Shaun

EssexJamie

iTrader: (5)

Above is what I was saying in my post....your cars has all the UK300 bits that I can see.
The UK300 is not a Uk300 PPP it's is a Prodrive car called a UK300.
They only way it won't have the Prodrive power is it's either been remapped or not a real UK300.
Some UK300s didn't even have the Prodrive Y pipe!!

Edit: On askmid your comes up as a Subaru Impreza WRX UK300

I'm confused to what parts are missing?!

Aaron1978

iTrader: (12)

It was still a £1600 extra at purchase, but was called the 'Wr Sport performance pack', 230ps on 95ron and 245ps on 97ron.

MedicInAUK300

iTrader: (5)

Thanks for the advice guys, really appreciated.
Mine is logged as a UK300 on the logbook and HPI etc, has all the usual UK300 bits such as lights, seats, spoiler etc but it doesn't have anything PPP on it. No PD exhaust (Looking to buy one from members market as one has come up) it has an STI back box on it, no Blue Prodrive intercooler hose and no stickers on the ECU (Have to admit I haven't opened it to check for the Gems unit)

I have contacted Britannia and all he said was that the certificate is what the previous owner gave him, I am waiting for the previous owner to contact me (Fingers crossed) so I can find out anything about this.

At the end of the day, I guess there is no one to blame but myself. I should have checked and apart from this I am more than happy with the scoob. It's wasn't really a deciding point on buying the car, more of a 'It has that as well' to be honest.

I received all the 'Service History' on pieces of paper as he that when the previous owner owned it, the paperwork was stolen but for some reason the previous owner photocopied everything before it was taken effectively leaving the car with no paperwork apart from an MOT and a V5, everything else is photocopied. Also included was the receipt for a service earlier in the year from Autotechnica, I have contacted these to see if they can confirm that it has actually had all this work done. Waiting for a reply from them.

At the end of the day, I guess there is no one to blame apart from myself but I will contact Britannia and see what can be done (if anything) about the PPP. I will be looking at piecing the PPP together myself if I can as this will be enough for me and will be 'with keeping with the UK300' just a bit disappointed is all, and feel a bit cheated by Britannia who are supposedly a performance car dealership

Will update if I find anything else, thanks again for the advice guys. I won;t be looking at court proceeding etc as it's been made clear above that so many things vary from one to the other I think it would be a difficult case to prove. I never bought it to sell on and everything I do will be documented from now on with it. Overall pleased with the Scoob and am looking forward to getting it where I want.

We live and we learn I guess, just hope this thread highlights that everything should be checked before cash is handed over and if in doubt -walk away...

The Trooper 1815

iTrader: (31)

All the PPP bits are removable or can be swapped out! Caveat emptor.

EssexJamie

iTrader: (5)

It sounds like someone just changed the exhaust mate!
Mine doesn't have the intercooler sticker as I resprayed my intercooler and the Y-Pipe was not fitted to all Uk300s.
I'm sure you couldn't get a UK300 without it being 245BHP, without the Prodrive upgrades as this is the point of a uk300.
It's not actually a PPP extra like on a WRX PPP or STI PPP
It is a Prodrive revised car....basically a tarted up WRX with some Prodrive sprinklings!!

Aaron1978

iTrader: (12)

You could, and they were 218ps as standard.

WacPo

Well said. The last place you want to end up is in a court, it is not a nice place and the worry that builds up before the case will lead to many a sleepless night.
Please take my word for it - I've seen many a grown man cr@p themselves in the waiting room!!!!!

EssexJamie

iTrader: (5)

Really what the flip is the point of that, might aswell just buy a Bug WRX then lol

LuckyWelshchap

Sorry, but that's submissive talk.

The 'Letter before Action' that I personally mentioned needs to be framed appropriatley, and if it is then the relevant points will be covered and the buyer will end up in no doubt as to whether they have been scammed or it is 'one of those things'.

Sorry to say, but if YOU don't have experience of (successful) litigation in the SCC you really shouldn't be posting as an authority.

We are, after all, here to primarily HELP/ASSIST and secondarily to support with our views and opinions.

I, for one, would support my HELP financially with the basic costs of litigation.
I'm prepared to put MY money where my threads are.

LuckyWelshchap

Well fwiw I've witnessed a legal representive cr*pping themselves before a District Judge.

And a few months later I witnessed a(nother) District Judge throwing out the renewed case against my company.

2-yr-old Audi A4 for about £3.5K.
That's what happens when a) your financial systems have a fault; b) you don't listen to what a customer says, inwardly digest and look into it; and c) you **** about with me.

I'm a little concerned that this particular problem is turning into some sort of 'it's easy for someone else to say, but it's your money', which in fairness would not be right but it isn't like that.

As above, I'll put - and cover - anyone's money where my mouth is.

Amnd my line is this - DON't dive in (which is what a few have said, sensibly), but DON'T be afraid to take it all the way (which is what some have said), if it's been advised by those who HAVE been there.

Without being funny, showboating or whatever some of us have not only been there but done it in FAR higher arenas and as SN members are more than willing to provide advice - based on our personal experiences - to fellow members.