Razor2001

Hi all

I know the car needs a little time to warm up before you punch it, but in all honesty who waits 15 mins everytime they drive their car before going over 3,000 rpms. I would never see over 3,000 rpms if this was the case !! Many times I am only in the car for 10 mins etc. Surely the car must warm up faster than this ?? 15 mins ???? LOL

Help calm my nerves please

Cheers,
Ray

Bruiser.STi

Most cars are well in the "warm" region before 15 minutes....
More important of course is the cool down for the turbo...
Up too 5 minutes if you have been giving it the welly...

ScoobydoobyDave

I asked this when I first got my scooby and was told '4 miles of 10 minutes, whichever comes first'

Seems ok to me!

mutant_matt

On my MY00 UK car, it took 15 mins for the oil to reach operating temp (80-90degC). So yes, I never took my car over 3000rpm for the 1st 15 mins of driving it.

It was rare that I drove my car for less than this time in any trip so didn't really matter that much, besides, looking after the engine was more important to me than having some fun in the 1st 15 mins.

Living in a big city helps because I can't really push it for 15 mins as that's how long it takes to get to the countryside...

Matt

Adam B

I personally work on 80C (oil temp) being about right before using boost. After having an appropriate gauge installed I was stunned to see that it takes >12 mins to get there, longer in the winter !! ... so 15 mins is not unreasonable.

Cheers

Adam

LG John

He he, finally the Saxo has something the scooby doesn't, (as standard) an oil temp gauge. Warm up speed varies with the viscocity of the oil but in general it'll take at least 15 mins of town driving often more in the freezing cold winter. If I drive down the bypass at 70mph (3,500rpm) it warms up far quicker, about 7m mins. It actually is quite frustraiting how long it takes, especially for me where I need to put more than 4000rpm on the clock before the car begins to move! Allow 10mins in the summer and 15 in the winter I'd say - or get an oil temp gauge

fivepint

in reality 15mins is not too long at all, most traffic lights/main junctions will hold ya for 2-3, 10 min journeys are NOT good for an engine...

Cheers

Wuss

How many of these 'stories' are just a load of exaggerated bollox anyway?

I allow the engine to warm up until the engine temperature needle has been in the 'warmed up' position for a couple of minutes (God I'm so technical!)

Where are the facts and figures about the differences in long-term damage between letting the engine warm up for 7 minutes rather than 15?

I'm not an engineer, but it just seems to be a little paranoid to me!

I'm simply following the dealers instructions without imstalling a load of dials and gauges! Surely these would be on the car already if this were such a serious issue.


[Edited by Wuss - 5/23/2002 10:44:50 AM]

Adam M

that engine temp gauge relates to water temp not oil temp and it heats up much faster. A heat pipe between the two then use the water heat to heat the oil, but it still takes ages.

I completely agree with Adam B on this. Same thing happened to me when I got my oil temp gauge. Couldnt believe the amount of time it took to heat, once fitted, I never abused the turbo, before the oil was up to 80.

It makes me cringe when I see others doing it.

Saxo boy? really the saxo has an oil temp gauge as standard?
with spec like that, I shall be ditching the impreza for a VTS!

mutant_matt

Wuss,

By the time the Temp gauge (OE one is Coolant temp) reaches it's usual position, my Oil Temp gauge hasn't moved at all (and it starts at 50DegC). A couple of minutes after than it *may* have just started to move. Oil is designed to work within a particular temp range so outside of this, it's not doing it's job very well - this works for both ends of the temp scale, either too hot or too cold and engine wear increases significantly.

I once read somewhere that 80% of all engine wear over a car's life happens whilst the engine oil is not up to temp.

BTW, my sports bike (Thunderace) has not used a drop of oil in it's 3 year life and according to the mechanic at the dealer, this is extremely unusual. He says they usually drink a litre every 1000 or so miles and when I asked him, he agreed that this is probably due to me be over zealous with warming it up before pushing it (and believe me, I thrash it within an inch of it's life every time I go out on it once it is warm!! )

I would obviously recommend keeping it below 3000rpm and light throttle for 15 mins which is how long it took to get my oil up to 80DegC.

Matt

Sheepsplitter

I'm not disagreeing with the 'let it warm up' mob because I always do, but why do people suggest 80-90 degrees before the oil is working?
Doesn't the oil work at all temps within the SAE rating?
I agree it's sensible to let the engine components warm up, but in a modern turbo engine the heat generated on components is very hot and will surely only take a few seconds/minutes.
Can anyone reference a scientific description of the reason for letting the oil heat up?

Wuss

Thanks for the lesson in engine mechanics! I shall be a little more gentle from now on. Maybe somebody should try and convince the dealers - I was acting on their instructions! If Joe Public cannot listen to them who the hell is he/she supposed to rely on?

BruceWarne

I reckon this is an urban legend.
It might have been necassary in the olden days, when the oil had to be on temperature to start working (or to be distinguishable from axle-grease).
What is multigrade for anyway?
Low and high temperature protection if you ask me.
Just wait until all the moving parts are thoroughly covered in oil (about when the coolant is on temperature). Then another minute to be sure, then go for it.

If it really was so important, then:
1. The car would have come out with an Oil Temp Gauge
2. The manual would have warned against it. (It only says wait for the coolant to get on temperature).

mutant_matt

The manuals and the dealers tend to say things like "modern engines don't need running in these days" too....I don't believe that either!!!

Isn't the temp quoted the ambient temp opertating conditions the oil is designed for use under?

Matt

Mildo

Can anyone on Scoobynet explain why an oil temperature gauge isn't fitted as standard by Subaru? It sounds like a fairly fundamental accessory on a high performance, turbocharged car.

I fall into the 'get the water temperature up and then add a few minutes' category, by the way!

BarryK

My 1970 MGBGT had an oil pressure guage. When stationary for long periods in traffic jams it went mental, and on one occassion coming back from that London, it nearly went off the bottom of the scale.

So too hot oil is as bad (if not worse) as too cold oil.

Driving a car WILL wear it's engine out.

But it'll take a while, and if you are the first or second owner of a Subaru, you are unlikely to notice. Unless of course you drive like a lunatic all the time. In which case you wouldn't be bothered anyway.

IanW

Having bought Matt's car, I know exactly what he means about the oil temperatue. My journey into work is 3 - 4 miles round a one way system, and on reaching the car park the oil is normally at about 60 - 70 degrees. Until the oil is above 80 degrees the car gets driven very lightly, no matter how tempting it might be to show up the twit sitting next to me at the traffic lights.

One the way home however i tend to take the LONG route now for some reason the oil is always hot when i get home

Shark

I second all Matt's comments.

David

BruceWarne

WHY????
You guys are relying on 30 year old advice.
Back in the days of Monograde Mineral Oil...
Multigrade oil flows easily at low temperatures, meaning the whole engine gets lubricated relatively quickly after startup.
At higher temperatures, it has increased viscousity (sic), giving the engine the protection it needs.

The 80 degree C thing comes from a 1956 lawnmower repair guide, anyway.

IanW

Bruce sorry mate, but I will not risk my turbo by driving the car hard on boost from cold! I will quite happily wait for the oil to get upto temperature.

Also regards the oil temp gauge as standard, there was a gauge pack avaliable from Subaru which had Oil Temp, Oil Pressue, and Boost.

mutant_matt

Bruce,

I don't believe it is 30 year old advice (in that it's still relevant today) and some people whose opinion I trust and value are in agreement with me so there is a chance that I'm just following a particular croud's opinion like sheep/dodo's. I'm fairly certain in my opinion and hope that someone who knows exactly what they are talking about (when it comes to oils) can help us out/enlighten us.

BTW Bruce, do you not think my example of my bike adds any weight to my argument?

Mildo, because like many other things, that costs money and it's already a squeeze on the current budget - hence cheapish interior, crap tyres, rubbish brakes (except new STi), thin paint, lack of Oil Pressure gauge too (my old 205 GTi has Oil T and P as standard).

Matt

BruceWarne

I'm not saying boost hard from the word go.
Wait for the coolant temp to get to operating point first. As it says in the manual...

We're still waiting for the scientific explanation of why we should wait till 80 deg C...Why not 60? Or 50?
Just because 80 is the steady state temperature doesn't imply that the oil doesn't function below this.

Dave T-S

This is the warmup procedure I have adopted for all six Imprezas we have owned.....

1) Start up.
2) Scratch gonads to allow engine to warm up.
3) Drive off at maximum revs in all gears from cold.
4) Sell car every six months or so.

PS - only joking (well, number 4 seems to be true though )

Wuss

So, what are we saying exactly?

I have had my car for two years and I have done 16,000 miles. Am I to believe that after all my careful driving, one day my engine is going to stop working early just because I have let it warm up for 7 minutes rather than 15??

How does anybody know? There are so many other factors. I sit in traffic while other people travel to work on 60mph roads. I'm sure their engine will be in a far better condition than mine.

I think we need the hard facts and figures rather than conjecture!

Dan B

I let mine warm up by the collant temp and add a minute.

When you get oil it has a few numbers on the side (eg 10W50, etc). I thought this was a measurement of the viscosity and operating temperature, i:e I use 5W40, which means its a thinker oil, and operates best above 40degrees C. i might be wrong though.

Also, where do oil temperature sender units operate from. I ask this because if it is in a place like the sump, then that will not reflect the temperature of the oil on the working components of the car, but merely the reservior of oil. The reservoir will take longer to warm up anyway, just like a full kettle takes longer to heat all the water.

mutant_matt

Dan,

It depends buy a lot of people (me included) put the Oil T sender into the blanking hole above number 3. This is (IMHO ) likely to give you the hottest figure of anywhere else on the car. I agree that the sump figure is likely to be lower due to it a) being the resovoir and b) presumably there is an amount of cooling that takes place from airflow passing over the sump. I'm fairly certain that Bob Rawle said he say a temp drop on the sump vs above No. 3.

Dave, very helpful BTW

Matt

BruceWarne

This says nothing.
How could the mechanic possibly give an informed opinion? Does he have a database of all customers, showing driving habits vs oil usage?

If you asked him if this was because you p1ssed in the tank on a regular basis, and ureum is good for the rings, he would probably have agreed as well.

Give me a sample size of at least 1000.

mutant_matt

Fair enough - but if he sees lots of them it would indicate a trend......

Matt

Jolly Green Monster 2

Personnaly I try and stay off boost until the water temp is up to normal....
Which can vary a lot depending on the driving.. I just don't boot it straight away..
Covered 27,000miles in the last year and no problems caused by above method <touch wood>. Only occasionally do I boot it before then and still only if the temp gauge has moved at least a bit.

I see it as the oil needs to be distributed around the engine rather than up to normal temperature.. obviously need to be warmed up to get the right viscoity but I am sure the oil has a fairly wide temperature range.. so lubrication should be fine,
just all the engine parts need to be at their normal temperatures so that clearances are correct. The engine components will heat up before the oil as the oil is heated by then engine components and I look at it that as long as the choke period is over (the temperature gauge has moved for the water) then everything is up and ready to go..

All IMHO of course...

I do always try and let is cool down though..

Also having been out with a number of other performance car drivers it also depends on your interpretation of booting it..
I feel I drive the car hard but with respect.. a number of mates do not understand respect..

JGM

Bruiser.STi

I like most wait till water temp rises to normal levels.

But no-one has menttioned how long they cool down for????

If the norm is 1-2 minutes, then are you safety minded individuals cooling down for 5-10 minutes????