spudgun

ok guys, dealer wants to know tommorrow if i want to chop the scoob for beemer.my cars due its service on friday, and i dont want to pay out on the scoob if i dont have to...so here goes
ive been offered the following:
bmw 330 ci sport automatic
topaz blue
full beige leather
xenons
19" m wheels
dash cd player
sports seats
myrtle wood trim
front arm rest
graduated tinted screen
sports suspension
plus all usual standard kit.
they have offered 17.25k for my my00 ppp scooby. the p1 alloys i can sell privately.

price of this ex demo( yes i know, but ive driven it and its immaculate) is £29995.
new one is a LOT more, with 4 month wait.

finance details:
11k deposit
24 monthly payments of £338.18 at 6.4% flat rate.
final payment of £16247.

now heres the good bit. they will take my car off me now, and i can have theres in 1 month once its up to 5k miles( if i buy it now, the car will cost 32k). so they will sell me an 11k car for one month, buy it back at the exact price i paid for it (in essence letting me have a car for free) therefore i dont loose any more on the scoob.

GUYS, SHOULD I DO THIS? AM I BEING CONNED OR IS IT A GOOD DEAL??

many many thanks for any advice u can offer!

spudgun

ANYONE???pretty please

bob

Very good deal from a dealer.
Its a £30,000 car with lots of extras. I will be going this way very soon. I fancy the 330D. With room for the dog

g man

Classey motor but 16grand abit strong......GMAN

SteveB

iTrader: (1)

I agree with Bob, from all the tests i've read the 330d is the best 3 series there is(before new M3 came out)

Do you really want an Auto ???

Steve.

bob

Spudgun
Price the car yourself:

MattN

6.4% flat, jesus you could get an APR for that.
remember you can haggle on that rate.

6.4Flat is about 13% APR

You are effectively paying over £5000 in interest in just 2 years. A traditional loan would cost about2k in interest at 10% APR, of course the monthly payments would be well up over £800 a month, but if you were to borrow the full 19k over say 5 years it's more like £400 a month. This makes the interest 5k but you don't have to find 16k in 2 years time! If you took out a loan over 3 years for this final payment again @ 10% you would end up paying 2.5k more interest than a traditional loan.

I reckon the price of the car is good, trade in is fair but the finance deal is very bad, and that is how they can offer the car at a good price!

Matt.

Stevie

Agree with Matt N totally. Great deal but finance rate is c##p!!

BTW, why is everyone going BMW. I have had German cars for three years prior to my current Scoob and I will NEVER, EVER be without a Scoob again. I think in 6 months time people will be SO bored, they will be taking a hit on Herman the Sausage's car and going back to somewhere in Japan for a true 'All Rounder' car, not just something to sit on motorway's in. Just my opinion of course but having spent 3 years without..........

Stevie

Agree with Matt N totally. Great deal but finance rate is c##p!!

BTW, why is everyone going BMW. I have had German cars for three years prior to my current Scoob and I will NEVER, EVER be without a Scoob again. I think in 6 months time people will be SO bored, they will be taking a hit on Herman the Sausage's car and going back to somewhere in Japan for a true 'All Rounder' car, not just something to sit on motorway's in. Just my opinion of course but having spent 3 years without..........

Stevie

Sorry!

matt d

Is a 330 worth 13k more than a scoob? You could pick up an Evo VI or P1 for less than that. As a fun driver's car, I don't think the 330 can compare, although I've only driven 328s and 320s and the 330 I'm sure is better. On pure performance & driving fun, there are better choices IMO.

If you are concerned with refinement and comfort too, then the Beemer is a good choice, but 13k is a lot to spend for that. Other choices would be sell the scoob and get a nice 95 M5 for 12-14k instead and spend a grand or two at a specialist getting it just right - more luxurious, more refined, awesome 340bhp M power engine, quicker than a P1/Evo VI at the top end. Or pick up an old M3 for similar money.

The 330 only makes sense IMO if you HAVE to have a new car, AND it has to be refined, well-built, and still provide reasonable sporty performance. Also, the model you've chosen has loads of options - options being almost pure markup for the dealer, and worth almost nothing at resale. A brand new 330 Sport is £28,800, and that's if you pay list in today's car market. IMO you will be paying £30k for a car that the trade would instantly offer £25-6k for.

I think you would do better waiting a few months - the depreciation on a new BMW optioned up will be more than a 1 year old scooby IMO. Of course, if you really love the car, then go for it, just don't expect it to be easy on your wallet!

pslewis

Buy into BMW

Jump out of Subaru

Its the only way my man

You KNOW it makes sense

Pete

oh, yes, get the money at the mortgage rate!! 13%APR is cr4p!!

spudgun

great advice so far guys. what is the best i could haggle to on a pcp?? i'm hopeless with car finance..these guys are professionals and outfox me on it. so i really do appreciate any advice from someone who is in the know.
STEVIE
i fancy going bmw ( i had s4 before scoob) because i find it a depressing thought being in such a crummy car for the next three years. its the BEST car ive ever driven, but one of the worst ive OWNED.
the interior is falling to bits, the clutch plays up, the headlights are so poor i'm sick of hitting potholes. im tired of unwanted attention from nova boys. i'm paranoid when i park it at night, i darent leave it anywhere during the day.
i want a bit of anonimity back, but when i want to play, my partner has a my95 with a superchip and decat, her car goes like the clappers, and sounds mega!
i want an auto for 2 reasons. firstly, i find the peddles on the manual very offset, using the clutch and hitting the footrest gets on my nerves.
secondly , having drove both versions, i find the auto suits the car better, with not much noticeable difference in performance.its one of those tiptronic things, so u can change gear manually, full automatically, or put it in sport mode and it will give u an extra 1500rpm in every gear.
its smooth and relaxing, like a pint o guiness

Chins

Spudgun

You were praising BMW dealers in other threads. Now you know how they afford the fancy coffee etc. They are bigger rip off merchants than Scooby dealers. They are not advising you very well on the finance. Applogies to the BMW dealer if the finance is elsewhere.

As pointed out Matt earlier in the thread dont do the finance, but the car looks great.

My route would be as follows

Ask for a balance payment. Might be a little tough as you are borrowing less than 20k (some people only do them at 25k). This means that intrest is calculated daily rather than loading it up front. If monthly payments are your priority try this.

19k to finance
5 year balance payments deal
Monthly payments £397 approx

Settle in two years and you will pay

£12,100 approx rather than £16,200

Yes you will of paid £65/month more, but at the end of the deal your still £2,500 better off. That extra money the dealer doesnt get !!

You might find the BMW dealer a bit negative about the balanced payment. Funnily enough the dealer wont be too keen on this deal as he make virtually nothing on it.

I have to thank Listers Audi for showing me the errors of my way in previous finance. They financed my S4 through IM using this deal. My S3 is financed this way and so is my wifes Leon Cupra (proving it can be done on a 15k car)

Hope that helps.

Jonathan

spudgun

now THAT'S more like it...cheers jonathan(chins)
anymore for anymore? can anyone top that...any financial whizzkids out there that can top his suggestion?
ALL advice is REALLY appreciated and thank u to everyone for taking the time to help me out

Chins

Spudgun

Its ok. Just wish I had had the knowledge 12 cars ago. Bank account would of looked a loads better. I now know why some dealers smiled at me

Jonathan

spudgun

oh, i forgot, what apr should i be trying for on this balance payment scheme realistically?
any further things i should look out for?
many many thanks!

Chins

Your not looking at an APR as much on this, but rate over FHBR (Finance House Base Rate). I will look out my S3 deal, but I think it 3.5%.

If you are borrowing 19k over 5 years, then anything more than £400 is too much. Over 4 years you are looking at £475. That would leave you about £10,100 in 2 years.

£20k over 5 years would be £418.

There really is no other way to finance this car if you intend to keep payments low. Any conventional PCP deal kills you on interest.
Dealers dont advertise it as they make nothing on it if you get the rates I have. The counter argument is how many people have been prevented from changing cars because the settlement figure is so high on their existing finance, when trying to change early ? Ask for a settlement 12 months into a 3 year PCP, and the amount you owe will be close to the amount you borrowed.

Using balanced payments your settlement after one year will be less than after the two years already offered to you by the dealer. So you can get that M3 early

Jonathan

spudgun

many many thanks again jonathan!ive been sat by this bleedin pc all night , hoping someone would offer some good advice, which u have and im very grateful for!
i have wrote all your key points down so i dont forget 'em, and i will now haggle with dealer at 9 am, armed with some proper knowledge.
problem is, i dont hate my scoob, even with all the grief it brings. if the deal falls through, then the service gets done( along with driving lights)on friday, and next month the full leather retrim gets done and bollox to it, i'll keep her.
if deal does happen, then i will still be here, as a driver of beemer and scooby..lucky sod eh?
cheers again jonathan

B-B

Buy BMW Spudgun. You will have best of both worlds with your partners car too.

g man

Chins ...this sounds very interesting sorry to be a pain, could you explain this in laymans terms briefly, Thanks Gary

CossieClint

Try Tescos for finance the are doing about the best deal at the moment !

Regards
Clint

MattN

loads of options really.

depends on how long you plan to keep the car etc. settleing loans early is expensive as you pay more interest than capital to start.

How much do you want to pay each month?

Secured or unsecured?

Matt

spudgun

have 11k as deposit.
dont want to pay more than 400 per month
only want it 2 years
dont wanna get fleeced
oh, and it will be unsecured

Chins

Matt

With balanced payments you start repaying capital straight away as there is no front loading of interest. I settle my S4 after two repayments, and 65% of my monthly payments had gone to clear capital.

g man

I work in Telecoms, not Finance !! Someone put me right if I'm wrong.

Usually people finance a car on straight HP or PCP.

HP vs Balanced payments

Borrow 10k over 5 years, and the payments will be the same. However if after 2 years you decide to sell the car, your main interest is in the settlement figure. Interest on the 10k will be about 2.5k. On a straight HP loan 48 hours after taking out the loan you will owe 12.5k (capital 10k plus interest 2.5k) less a rebate. This would in practice be very approx 10,250 (3 months interest) or with some finance companies 10,500 (6 months). So although youve had the loan 48 hours and borrowed 10k you now owe 10,500!. You will spend usually the first three - six months paying interest and nothing off the 10,000 you borrowed. With balanced payments you pay interest daily. On 10k that would be very approx 2.75 a day, so 48 hours after taking out the loan you owe 10,006. Six months down the line your settlement figure will be approx £9,400 balanced payments vs £10,000 HP . Two years into the deal the settlement will still be a lot less on balanced payments than HP. If you keep the loan towards the end of the term of the loan its very equal. The real message is if you dont intend to keep the loan untill of the term from the outset consider balanced payment. They are a lot harder to find, and as mentioned earlier the minimum amount can be high.


Balanced Payments vs PCP

Buy a 10,000 car with no deposit

Typical PCP at fairly good rates

Monthly payment 209
Ballon payement after 3 years 5,000
Interest payable 2,456

Balanced payment

Monthly payment 209
Interest over whole 5 years 2,516.
So interest over 5 years is nearly the same as the interest you would pay in 3 on a PCP. This means for the same monthly payment, you are paying less interest, hence more capital is being paid off.
Settle this loan after 3 years, and it would be around 4,200

I had to tell my last "Finance Specialist" at my local Audi dealer about balanced payments!!

Hope that helps

Jonathan

[This message has been edited by Chins (edited 24 April 2001).]

spudgun

cheers chins! now i get it. wish i'd known this stuff before, especially as i find it impossible to keep cars for more than 2 years!
will post tommorrow to let u know what happened, good or bad!
thanks mate!

MattN

hhhmmmmmm.

you start paying off capital straight away on a normal personal loan. Rule of 78.

19k over 5 years @7.9% APR = 383.34 month

Settlement after 24 payments is £12283 plus they will charge you up to 3 months interest which is about £84 month, so total to settle early is about 12.5k. Total paid to date would be 12.5k settlement plus 24 months @ 383 = 21,700. Which means £2,700 in interest over the 2 years.

Incidentally, if you got the original finance through the dealer, he would be usuing BMWFS. This means a) the loan would be secured on the car, and b) the dealer has a mark up on the %age.

Matt.

Adam M

On a car note, my stepmother has a 328ci on the 17 inch seven spoke alloys. If yours is on 19s, please dont expect refinement. The hard suspension of the 22B give less rattly ride than hers on 17s so 19s will be harsh

Aside fr4om that the car is lovely and will look awesome, but wont you feel a little rubbish when faced with the M3.

PS we paid 31k for ours when ordered in full spec brand new from germany, wait was three months, and prices have gone down since then in europe. But then you dont get a trade in, and you dont get a three year warranty.

If I wanted refinement, I would go for a B4 RSK for 21k fully loaded.

The BMW is a great car, but here in north london there is nothing more annoying than being pleased with your car and crossing 10 identical ones on the way to work. It makes it less special. I will never have a common car again!

Jolly Green Monster

iTrader: (4)

Somewhere miles above my post you said Sudgun that you are fed up with not feeling happy parking the Scoob at night.
If you are worried about parking a car that you have been offered 17.25K part exchange for are you not going to be more worried about parking a 30K car?

GCollier

Some might say that with the chill financial breeze starting to blow in across the Atlantic, now would not be a time for increasing debt, in case the breeze ends up becoming a gale.

Gary.