Tidgy

or so these people claim,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-22155209


wtf is that all about? either can by at fault so why assume one is? just wrong when we live in an innocent untill proven guilty culture.

not seen if this is a repost or not

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

It's not really saying that, though the way the article is written indeed more or less implies that.

It is a system whereby there is a hierarchy of assumption at the start of any case. So when a cyclist and a car are involved in an accident the car driver is assumed to be the cause and the police investigate starting out on that basis. Equally if a cyclist and a pedestrian are involved in a collision the starting point is to assume the cyclist is at fault and so on.

I presume it is to make drivers of cars more wary of getting to close to cyclists and to hopefully stop cyclists from riding on the pavement etc etc.

Ed-EG

That's madness, surely accidents should be dealt with in the same way regardless of the vehicle involved? Blame should be placed based on evidence, not presumptions.

Bicycles are much more maneuverable than cars anyway, so why should car drivers automatically be blamed when the cyclist has much more ability to avoid danger?

SwissTony

iTrader: (19)

You would think so wouldnt you , alas the reality is somewhat different. Years ago I came out from the office and pulled up at a junction. It is a one way street and so I only had to stop, look left and then start pulling out. As I started moving I naturally looked right where no traffic should be approaching only to find a bloody cyclist bearing down on me at some speed. He had actually come from the road and was trying to cross the junction to the pavement but my car seemed to be in the way.

Had no chance to avoid him as he gaily twatted into me and did a full somersault over my bonnet with him and his bike landing smack in the middle of my bonnet and then he and said bike gracefully slid off down the passenger wing into a crumpled heap on the floor.

Luckily this was in view of a local hospital so within seconds he had people giving him blankets and medical treatment as a crowd gathered around him. Got a bizzare after that as some guy in a nasty grey shiny suit pressed a business card into the cyclist's hand (ambulence chaser) and as I was stood there next to my car door, the amount of abuse I received from other cyclists was amazing. Obviously it was my fault

Police rocked up and as the cyclist was herded into an ambulence to get treatment and checked over I was breathalysed. FFS it was 10:30 am and I asked if the cyclist was also going to be breathalysed.
No was the answer as it is normal practice where a car and cycle is involved in an RTA, the car driver is checked only ..

In the end I won the case as not only was the mad flying sandel wearing buddhist wearing no protective clothing apart from some robes and a beanie cap, he was cycling on the pavement and down a one way street the wrong way.

But it just goes to show that the car driver is always presumed at fault

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Motorists: criminals and eco-terrorists, guilty until proven innocent and the ONLY people who MUST incriminate themselves in court....

Many Thanks T B Liar and Lying Labour.

PS: motorists: please continue to be the country's cash cow...

GeeDee

iTrader: (2)

It's about time cyclists were held to account more as the law doesn't seem to apply to them.

I get pi$$ed off at the number of times I have to advise them of no lights - they seem to have a death wish and no doubt it would be our fault for killing them.

Had a go at one recently who charged between me and another car who had stopped at a pedestrian crossing making the pedestrians pause - luckily they had seen him. I got in return.

Passed a cyclist as I pulled up to some traffic lights a week or so back where I wanted to turn left. I deliberately pulled quite close to the kerb to persuade him not to pass me and as I started turning, yes, I was indicating, he shot through on the nearside. Luckily, for him, I had still anticipated him being a dipstick and, yet again, I got when I let him know I was there in the time honoured fashion.

Got hit by one a few years back. I stopped for some pedestrian lights having just passed a cyclist. He didn't see because he was looking behind to change lanes. Went straight into my rear wing which stopped his bike and he ended up in front of my car clutching his goolies. Damage to rear wing, ariel and marks down whole side of car - I wasn't happy which was aggravated by having to report the accident to the police if only to cover myself - spent ages at the police station and was given a producer for my docs

Rant mode: OFF

gpssti4

iTrader: (6)

In London recently, I walked across a Pelican crossing - on red for me but the road was empty. The masses followed and I heard a shout from a cycle courier "green light, green light, FFS it's green for me!!!" Rapidly met with laughing and a reply from the crowd still crossing "That's how it feels!" Made me chuckle.

JDM_Stig

iTrader: (3)

last night at 10pm while travelling up a unlit road I was within inches of wiping a cyclist out, NO FECKING LIGHTS, no reflectors or anything, have it on Camera as I pulled up and laid **** into the rider who wasnt a kid either, if Id have hit or killed him I would have to live with that, thru no fault of my own,
I ride a bike (not much I admit) but even while out in the day I pop the rear flasher on.

kevo10

Havent cycled for a long time and there was a time when i would defend cyclists to the hilt, but no more. They really dont do themselves any favours , on the road, with some of the actions they seem to do without any personal safety considerations in mind.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Cyclist were taught b last Lying Labour government that a) motorists are eco-terrorists and criminals, and b) cyclists are green, saving the planet and in the right.

Is there any wonder they now act as if they can do as they like?

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Section 172 subsection 2 of the RTA 1988 is the law in question and was introduced in 1998 by the Tories, just so as you know

trails

iTrader: (41)

There will always be ***** on bikes like there are ***** in cars...however you are far more likely to die\get seriously injured on a bike than in a car if both vehicles have a coming together. Notwithstanding that cyclists still have to take personal responsibility for their safety; riding without lights is a Darwin Award contender.

A big fat **** you to those people that cuss cyclists and have no\very little recent experience of riding on the road.

Mr Davy, next time you approach a cyclist in your car imagine its your wife\girlfriend\child\mum\dad and perhaps you will act with a bit more courtesy and tolerance.

Ed-EG

Safe cycling at it's finest, look at all those buses and cars cutting those poor guys up!

I'm not attacking cyclists in general, I ride a fair bit myself (although I try to avoid busy roads, it's safer that way), it's just mad that certain riders feel they have utmost priority when riding, when it's simply not the case.

scoobynutta555

I've not read the article. I assume they want to make drivers more aware of cyclists and think more about their driving habits,as the cyclist almost always comes out worse in an accident. Yes there are a fair number of total bell ends on 2 wheels. The majority of these would be in large cities and peleton wannabes at the weekend. Also, why do 9 out of 10 immigrant bike riders feel that lights are not needed in the dark?

I would dare any car driver who are anti bike to do the commute I do on a bike and you'll see just as many utterly stupid, selfish and totally unaware drivers there are. Worse than being on a bike, these idiots can cause serious damage or death by their actions. A lot more people should commute etc on a bike, there would be far fewer unfit lard ***** about. Yes I pay a road fund licence and have a car, just as many cyclists do.

Tidgy

you should have read the article,,, lol

SwissTony

iTrader: (19)

Absolute arrogant ****ers

Only watched about half way through and in that time I counted 9 red lights, one narrow miss with a cop car, 4 wrong side of the road violations, 3 near misses with either pedestrians or other cyclists etc..

They may not be indicative of the general cycling population but its not far off something that I see everyday in London be it driving or using public transport.

Tossers

trails

iTrader: (41)

Other than the pavement invasion I didn't think it was that bad, especially considering the context of the clip; it was a courier race...not normal behaviour and not normal riders.

Until you have ridden in London traffic you are only able to comment as an indignant pedestrian\motorist. You can make progress relatively safely on a push-bike that you can't in a car...the helmet cam in the clip does not represent the actual view of the riders; you can see far more and are aware of far more so the decisions made there are actually far less Banzai than they appear. Saying that there were defiantly prospective Darwin Awards there

Tidgy

eh????????????????

so wrong side of the road, cutting red lights, nearly missing pedestrians is all not too bad?

thats the attitude that winds drivers up, if a car was driven like that the driver woudl be locked up for dangerous driving.

anyway, ignoring that. the whole point of the thread was that if that law was implamented had one of those riders int eh vid had an accident with a car or bus etc, it would have been the car/bus driver blamed when its obvious the riders were the reason.

You can't assume whos to blame in any situation, no mater who it is, riders and drivers can cause accidents just as easily.

SwissTony

iTrader: (19)

No.1 I work in London and have done for many years so yes I have a pretty good idea how often the behaviour occurs and aside from London cabbies, bus drivers etc, cyclists have by far the worst behaviour.

No.2 I have cycled in London, albeit not for very long as I could see that it wasnt a great idea and unless I broke every single rule in the highway code, I was either not going to get anywhere fast or get killed. The amount of odd looks you get from other cyclists when you are sitting patiently at the lights or not using the pavements is amusing to say the least.

trails

iTrader: (41)

not really...particularly in the context of the clip as I said; that is not average behaviour...it was a courier race.

Damn right a car is a tonne plus lump of metal not a 20lb bike...the ability to maim\kill is infinitely greater in a car so the consequences should be greater.

That article is about campaigners who are calling for a law change in Scotland...suprised that wasn't a Daily Mail article

Markyscoob

Basically, to survive cycling in London, it's the law of the jungle, not the highway code. It wasn't invented for bikes...and has little relevance. As long as Cyclists are aware and carful with pedestrians, the other vehicles are just obstacles really.....

I cycle to work some days, ride my motorbike others and use the car when I have to...begrudgingly. I pay road tax and do stop at lights, but then the Isle of Man is a VERY different place to London.

What I do try to do whatever I'm driving/riding is be courteous and aware of all others and not be unpredictable and dangerous.

Simples.

trails

iTrader: (41)

No.1 In your opinion cyclists have by far the worse attitude...did you ever stop to wonder why/how that attitude came about...?

No.2 Your comments make it clear you don't understand how to interact with traffic safely in London...the odd looks were probably because they were concerned you were out of your depth and didn't know what you were doing...

Tidgy

you could argue no 1 about cyclists from a drivers perspective, theres nto a day goes by i dont see a cyclist do somethign stupid or illegal, not a day goes by i dont see a driver do something stupid or illegal. funny how there are bad eggs in both camps.

thats the whole point, a cyclists can ride as stupid as a driver can drive, so why blame one in preference to another?

bobby chang

Technically NO, unfortunately YES, even more so if you drive a Subaru.

trails

iTrader: (41)

Deffo ejiits on both sides...however a bike cannot compete with a car for lethality; an idiot in a car is a far greater threat to life and limb than an idiot on a bike

CarBen Fibre Creations

iTrader: (2)

Seems to be common trait these days its like cyclists vs cars instead of respecting each others space. I have seen too many times cyclists coming out of the cycle lane into the road to avoid pot holes, over taking other bikes without signal and my favorite is taking shortcuts across busy roads out of a bike lane because it will save 5 minutes on the journey.

IMO these days all cars need to be kitted out with cameras if your route is near a cycle lane because one day you'll hit one, it wont be your fault but you will ge the blame.

What in car cameras do you all use?

trails

iTrader: (41)

You do know bike lanes aren't mandatory for bikes right?!

CarBen Fibre Creations

iTrader: (2)

I do still you'd expect them to stay in the lane and when they have to overtake do it properly.....look, signal, maneuver. Not shoot out without looking over your shoulder causing nearby drivers to swerve to give room.

My main pet peeve though is traffic lights, since when was it ok for cyclists to run red lights. I seen one guy go through a set of red lights, over a cross road quite quick and was inches away from being side swiped by a car going across at 40mph

trails

iTrader: (41)

the right hand should check is called the life-saver for a reason...I'll admit to running red lights; when it's clear and never at a speed I can't stop at on a penny. No life saver and running reds without check=Darwin Award

Ed-EG

trails you seem to be set on the view that all drivers are at fault and cyclists are oppressed, which is simply not true. While I accept the fact that the car will be the force that causes the most damage, the creation of an accident is not caused by the car or the bike, it is caused by the person in control, and to this end I think both parties have an equal responsibility to be safe on the roads. Unless you also believe that cyclists have a magical sixth sense that makes them more aware of their surroundings?