Fruit15

Right after starting 3 or 4 threads in separate places on ScoobyNet and collecting various answers I've become a little confused. So here is the full story with questions.

My brother and I have bought a 1997 Turbo 2000 AWD to take part in a 3000 mile drive round Europe to raise money for Well Child a childrens charity. When we bought the car the engine was in bits mainly in the boot. We thought the engine could be rebuilt until we inspected it closer. It was at this point we decided a recon engine was the way forward, so we stripped our engine and sent it back as the exchange unit. I asked the company supplying the recon engine if they could transfer all the pullies from our exchange unit and fit a water pump plus fit a new timing belt and time it up. To which they agreed.

A friend of ours who owns a local breakers yard gave us an STi engine which had been front ended to use for donar auxiliary parts this included the inlet manifold, injectors (yellow) and ECU (7 5) pretty much a complete engine in fact. But the only thing we have used is the VF24 Turbo which we have had reconditioned by Turbo Developments. We have also added a Japspeed 4 into 1 manifold as ours was rotten. Apart from the Silicone (induction and coolant) hoses throughout the engine bay these are the only changes we have made. The engine is now in and has been running, but it sounds like a bag of ****.

The original ECU which came with the car is an 8S, the injectors in the original inlet manifold are grey. The MAF has a Green Label and has a bolt on Apexi filter. The car also came with a Manual Boost Controller, Bailey Dump Valve and Turbo Timer.

Now I have covered all the facts( I think) its time for the questions.

What do we need to change to be able to run the Turbo ?
Is it possible to remap the 8S ECU ?
Can we use the Yellow injectors ?
Can we use the 7 5 ECU (we plugged it in earlier and the fuel pump didn't work) ?

The big question is how can we combine all these parts to end up with a running car ???????????

We now have 20 days before the 3000 mile drive round Europe for Charity we have spent a lot on the car so far (more than planned) and have raised a fair bit of cash for the charity. But now we have pretty much run out of cash for the car and we are in real fear of not being able to go at all. We still have to paint the car, MOT, Tax and Insure it plus run it in !!!

We will gladly put stickers on the car of any companies who help us achieve our goal.

We are really in desperate need of answers or local help (Sittingbourne).

PM me for my phone number if it is easier to talk through it.

Thanks for Listening

Nick (a man on the edge of failure)

Sprint Chief

Car still not running 20 days before the event? Pah! You're not near the edge of failure. It is a tradition of car events that you are still fixing something at midnight before getting up at 4 in the morning to get to the event.

Anyway, to try and answer your questions. In slightly the wrong order.

Both the 8S and 75 ECU can be remapped, but only by adding an ESL daughterboard.

The ECUs contain calibration parameters for the various sensors and components that run the engine, and if you do not map the ECU you MUST make sure the various components match the ECU. This includes injectors, turbo and MAF; but the engine is quite different as well, the STi has different heads, pistons, a higher red line, which means you really should not plug in and run the turbo 2000 engine on the STi ECU, or vice versa, unless you swap all the relevant bits over.

If you choose to map the ECU, then the ECU doesn't really matter, because the tuner will change the settings in the ECU to match whatever you have installed.

There are loom differences between the STi and the turbo 2000, the cam and crank sensors need to be swapped and the fuel pump relay pin moved to make the 75 ECU work in your car.


The turbo is a bit of an exception to the above. Although the ECU does control the turbo, it is possible to bypass the ECU control using a separate boost controller. This allows you to effectively remap just the turbo control separately to the rest of the car. You will be limited on maximum boost to the overboost fuel cut of the ECU, so you won't be able to make full use of the VF24 with the 8S ECU, which has a lower fuel cut. You can use a fuel cut defender, although this removes a safety feature of the car.

Trouble is, by the time you've bought an electronic boost controller and fuel cut defender etc. you may as well have just remapped the ECU...

You can use the yellow injectors with the 75 ECU, or with a remapped ECU. You shouldn't really use them with the 8S ecu.

That said, if you're doing the scum run, wouldn't it be wise to go for a standard-ish setup for reliability?

Fruit15

If you met a complete novice Subaru owner and spoke to his son who introduced you to his pet hamster, the hamster would know more about these cars than me.

So the Big Question

If you were me and had limited funds what configuration would you use from the parts we have to make it work ?

Basically can you tell me what to do please.

I'm really grateful for your info so far, a short sharp lesson in what I'm playing with !

Fruit15

I'm really considering stripping the car out selling all the parts and buying a different Car we are £2500 in and i'm losing my mind

Sprint Chief

I think the first step has got to be to get it running right on the new engine with a fairly standard setup.

I think for now you have to stick with the 8S - it matches the main engine components (cylinder head, cams, etc) which I'm guessing you are not going to want to swap! For now, that also means sticking with the standard grey injectors and the purple MAF.

The air filter and dump valve are probably doing you no favours. Do you have a standard, known good subaru air box and dump valve kicking around?

The turbo is probably the most flexible option. I see no harm in fitting the VF24. But to get it running, just plumb the wastegate actuator directly to the inlet manifold pressure. This should give you actuator pressure, which is (I think!) usually 0.6 bar.

That should be enough to at least get the car running right. I'm assuming it is not running right at the moment from what you said? Before making any modifications, you need to get the car running 100% with a fairly standard setup. Otherwise you'll end up with the car not running right and not knowing whether it is the modifications that are causing an issue or an underlying fault.

Once it is all running correctly, you can start to look into making further mods. Easy (ish) bolt on mods that are worth doing if you can make if you have the bits:

Do you have the intercooler and hard Y-pipe that connects the intercooler to the turbo from the STi? The STi intercooler is better than the UK turbo item and definitely worth having. This can be swapped over without mapping.

You then have two options. Option 1, stick with the 8S ECU, get and install a boost controller, and start increasing the boost from the turbo. I would stick with around 1 to bar - your injectors will be maxed out at this point. Get the car checked on a rolling road to make sure it is fuelling right and not detting.

Option 2, get a mappable ECU. Swap the injectors for the STi yellows, uprate the fuel pump and connect up the boost control circuit back to standard. Get the car mapped by a tuner.

A third option might be to revert the car to standard trim - just get the original TD04 back on and let the 8S control it as standard.

scoobyricht

iTrader: (4)

you say that you have a green label maf, thats the wrong one for use with the 8s ecu and also wrong for the 75 ecu. try a purple label maf with the 8s.

Fruit15

I'd like to thank Sprint Chief for the wealth of knowledge you have been a real help. I had a mechanic come and look today who pretty much repeated everything you said, without your advice I wouldn't have been able to sound like I know what I'm talking about lol.

He also mentioned the MAF sensor thanks scoobyricht.

He is coming back Tuesday night to address something I took for granted "The Timing" which was taken care of by the company who supplied the recon engine. The second I turned the engine over he suspected the belt had jumped a couple of teeth, hence it not wanting to fire properly.

I have booked it in with a tuner on Thursday by which time I will have made the relevant changes based on Sprint Chiefs advice.

Tomorrow I am respraying the doors, bonnet, boot, side skirts and spoiler. I am then spraying the car Monday night. Putting it all back together Wednesday to take to the tuners Thursday and be MOT'd Saturday.

I will keep you all posted on my progress ! Wish me luck its gonna be a busy week with some very late nights.

classicwrx93

good luck guys. Did something similar to you guys a couple of years back. £250 quid for the motor n a **** load of favours. Sadly not a scooby, but she did the 3k miles. £1200 raised for charity though.


do you have a link for your charity page?

Fruit15

If we do the run next year I think we will approach it completely differently , this has been so stressful. But then again if we pull it off all the hard work will make for and epic achievement and journey.We have had to beg, borrow and steal, to get to where we are. The list of Thank You's is gonna be a very long one.

We do have a charity page the link is below.

http://www.justgiving.com/Nick-Sketchley

Thanks for all the advice.

Sprint Chief

Sounds like you have a plan! Good luck with the event, hope it goes well.

Fruit15

Can anyone tell me where the OBD port is on my 97 Turbo 2000 and maybe a picture of it I'm completely stumped !!!

bgood

iTrader: (2)

If it has one and I'm not sure that it does on that car it's in the dash panel under the steering wheel, looks a bit like a scart socket, below is a pic taken looking up from the drivers footwell.

Andy Stevens

www.enduringsolutions.com/Diagports.pdf

Fruit15

I'd like to thank everyone for their advice and trying to point me in the right direction.

Unfortunately today our worst fears were confirmed, the people who supplied the reconditioned engine and done the ting for us got it wrong. We now have no money, no time and a bent exhaust valve !!!!! Aaaaaaah I could cry, they said they would sort it, but as it stands we are £2500 down and not going :-(

Speak to you all again soon thanks again.

Kind Regards

Nick

classicwrx93

when are you due to be setting off?
All is not lost yet!!! I'm sure something can be sorted for you guys. After all....all you need is a car. You have plenty of spares with your current motor. I believe a deal could be done somewhere along the line. How many are going?

Fruit15

There are about 140 cars going, with a minimum of 2 per car !!

I have to make a call to the engine company at 10:30 in the morning this will decide what our next move is.

Keep your eyes open in the classifieds for a few bargains, VF24 Turbo, Complete set of SFS Hoses, Refirbed Wheels, New Rad, Decat Exhaust, 4 into 1 Manifold and the list goes on LOL.

classicwrx93

keep us in the loop. There are a couple of options we could offer if you get really stuck. You will be going on this trip!!! too much hard work not to reap the benefit. currently checking availability on the BMW :-))

Fruit15

BMW ????

classicwrx93

we still have the one in the picture as far as I am aware. Still complete with GT stripes. Just awaiting confirmation of us still owning it. Has been stood for a while but went like the clappers. If the scooby aint happening then the Germans could win the war. :-)))

RType

Who supplied the engine? theres some horror stories on here of places that take an old engine as part exchange, then just sell it on to the next person, think they were from around london/kent way.

Hope it all works out, cant go wrong with the beemer to be fair. If you do get the scoob going, get some breakdown cover!!

Fruit15

It was a company in Birmingham, to be fair there technical guy has been spot on, its the guys in the workshop who have f***** things up and the lack of communication from the boss takes the P*** and as for Breakdown cover !!! You fill me with such confidence NOT

Fruit15

I have news !!!!

After spitting my dummy out in the biggest of ways and explaining what was at risk. The engine company are collecting the car tomorrow, taking it to Birmingham and returning it Tueasday complete and running ! WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOO.

They said they were going to remove the engine fit a new one, refitting our Turbo all the Silicone hoses(thanks SFS Performance) and it would come back running sweet and ready to drive !

I can only hope they stick to their word.

Fruit15

Well tuesday has come and gone and we have no car :-(

I spoke to the engine company today and they were in the process of building another engine which they are fitting tomorrow !!

I'm getting really nervous now as they said the car will be back Thursday leaving us only 1 day to prepare it for its MOT and only 6 days to run it in before we set off on our charity drive !!!

So watch this space and keep your fingers crossed for us !

RType

I fear this will end in tears i'm afraid. I would have lost all faith in them by now and would name and shame, for the sake of other people on here.

You realise the car will need checking on a dyno or by a reputable mapper before you go dont you? If it does come back running for god sake spend £60 having it checked over before you even leave for the ferry!

stu turbo 98

iTrader: (6)

Good luck with it all mate,thats a massive effort your putting in for a good cause,its so unfair that the odds seem stacked against you.
I hope everything works out for you,if you get any clutch or exhaust issues,i have an exedy clutch with less than a thousand miles on it and a 2.5inch centre section and back box,both in excellent condition that i will happily donate if needed to get you on your way
Regards..Stuart.

Fruit15

Believe me I also share your fears !

The naming and shaming is being saved for the moment I know its definately game over. There is still a glimmer of hope which I am holding onto with both hands and legs. I am too far in to just turn my back on it.

Fruit15

Thanks for the offer Stuart. I will keep you posted. As for the odds stacked against me, I feel like the whole world has it in for me. But if we pull it off it will be something to look back on and say "F*** that I'm never doing that again".

Regards

Nick

fubar phil

Will see you there in our turbo 2000. Luckily our engine was fine - just needed a new rear end. If you do make it, as a team we have a fair bit of experience with scoobies, so look out for our bright orange car if need some help or just want a beer.

d4vidh

Good luck Nick I hope you get it sorted, will be nice to see another Scooby this year with ours doing the Scumrun

bendy

Hi Nick,

Any update on the engine?

If you need any help on the day or during the event me Phil and David will be there to try and assist.

I'll have a beer waiting for you next thursday.