LG John

Officially gutted people!! I drove my first PPP'd scooby today and was not impressed. The PPP seemed to make the acceleration very smooth and linear and it 'felt' no faster than the VTS. Scotsmans standard MY99 had more kick to it despite the fact it would actually be slower on the road. Is it possible to tune up an MY99 with dawes, zorst, etc to make it quicker but still retain it's punchy turbo nature. If I wanted a smooth car I'd buy a V6, I want some brutality!!

chrisp

Sounds like you need a short geared lightweight import

Insurance may be a problem I reckon I could insure a VTS for a 1/4 of the price.

SCOSaltire

what MY was it?

ive got a MY99 PPP... made a difference... maybe not as dramatic as a dawes... but more adjustable...

T-uk

I was never impressed with any Prodrived car until john banks's but then again he took the time to set/control boost which is,as far as I am concerned the main problem.ECUTEK maps seem the better option for the later years.

TurboBoost

I think you should be a little more realistic in your expectations. Very few cars will be as fast as the awesome Saxo VTS.

shunty

shunty

DeerHunter

I have PPP on my MY97 and until the other day thought it made loads of difference.....

Then i had a go of my mates catalunya MY96 with revolution 4" full decat system.......

Have to say it was quicker!!!!! - WHY!!!

PPP seems to smooth the cars acceleration out as my mates nearly snapped my kneck and then lost power at 5K revs?

Still think its the b@ll@cks even if Tesco don't know !!

LG John

Turboboost that is a completely un-useful comment!! I was very impressed with John's car as well but as I said to him at the time, despite it's blistering pace it was too creamy smooth for me. If I wanted that really sweet linear power delivery I'd buy a 'much cheaper to run' 325 BMW or the likes. I'm not arsed if any Impreza I get is particuarly faster than the PPP'd one I drove today (MY00 BTW) I'd just like the power to be more vivid without resorting to the older, bigger turbo'd scoobies which have a shocking interior and crap brakes, etc. Do you guy's think a zorst and dawes is the way to go??

Wuss

I have to disagree with most of you.

I've added the PPP to my MY00 with five tanks of Optimax before the reset and it shifts. I know there are better, and faster, Scoobys out there but in second and third the car can be frighteningly quick. In first, it has become difficult to manage - maybe I'm not a true petrolhead but I'm damn happy with what the PPP has done to mine.

W.

D8UGF

Saxo Boy,

The way to go is buy my STi 1 for 7 grand, and
spend the three grand u save on big brakes and
leather interior

Dougie.

johnfelstead

So what you are saying saxo, is you want a car that has a crap torque delivery but a punchy power delivery and makes you feel like you are going fast yet in reality you are actually going slower? How wierd are you? LOL

mutant_matt

John,

Beat me to it, that was exactly what I was going to say!!!!!!

SB, how about get an STi 7, they are more laggy AND faster than the MY01 WRX/old UK cars so are both faster AND feel faster

Matt

LG John

That's not what I'm saying. I use this as a basis for comparison: My VTS to 100mph is quicker (marginly) than my dad's 330d but any monkey driving either would swear blind the 330d is significantly quicker. Granted that's an extreme example cause the 330d delivers mammoth punch for a short period of time but I just felt the PPP was too consistent. I'd like a pre-boost weak spot followed by a 'hear comes the turbo' thump and then ideally for it to pull well to the red-line. I guess it didn't help that I was well aware some sucker had shelled £1600 to have that done to their car!

Neil Smalley

The big downside to having a low down 'weak spot' is that you need to keep changing gear to keep the engine in the power band. This is why the STI7 has a 6 speed box, simply because the engine needs 3500 revs+ to come alive.

If what you are after is the full blown turbo lag effect, then buy a standard impreza/or cossie and fit a stonking big turbo to it. That way the boost will come in with a WHAM, usually when you least expect it(like going round a corner) and off boost the car will be as quick as a mini metro on one cylinder.

I had a PPP'd MY00 and it was stunningly better than the standard car. I liked the smooth and all the way up to the rev counter power delivery. If the STI 7 PPP is as good as the MK1 one, then it'll be worth every penny.

STi wanna Subaru

iTrader: (1)

So you like turbo lag?? strange! For me a car is about being driveable, this means having power on tap and at a rev range that is usable. Is the car still under warranty? If the warranty has expired then you could always sell the PPP for good money. get a full de-cat and then get Ecutek to map the car.

If you want that punch in the back feeling maybe an old cossie would be better suited to you.

SCOSaltire

horses for courses
id rather have smooth power delivery and lots of adjustment rather than wham-bam
i know that the bit surge is addictive... and that is what ur feeling...
and its probably the reason i went for a scoob over an elise... more torque... felt more of an occasion acceleration wise.
however... what i like now is being able to make fine adjustments around corners... not having an on/off accelerator.. but one where u can control the car easier... increasing the speed controlably..
i reckon ull end up with a car more like a sti... lots of occasion high up... its good that u know what u like...
I was i a my00 with dawes and full decat the other day (cheers ChrisG) and it sounded and felt much more of an occasion...

i am looking at changing the exhaust to get more mid/low torque...

LG John

Don't forget my roots! The Saxo needs 4-5k before its intersted so I'm used to selecting my gears very carefully and keeping it over 3.5k would be easy. I remember my fist ever scooby experience.....The guy driving made his way slowly out of town and then got to a 60mph limit road where he put his foot down. The car started to accelerate and I remember thinking 'this is crap' then THUD, in came the turbo and I thought I was going through to the back seat. That was just a standard MY95 with 208bhp but it 'felt' quiker then the PPP car which has much more power and is obviously 'actually' quicker.

LG John

Well said saltire, it's true that I'm looking for a greater sense of occasion when accelerating. If control and throttle response is what I was after I'd stick with the Saxo and mod it. I was amazed how much sharper the VTS felt when I jumped back into it. The steering and throttle response is vastly superior to a scooby (unfortunately that's about all that's better!) There seems to be confirmation of my dawes thoughts which is good cause I can buy an MY99 and with the money I'd save not getting a PPP I can get some sexy gauges to go in place of the rather pathetic sunglasses box

Boost II

iTrader: (1)

Yes, he does seem to come on here a lot and go on about really wanting an Impreza Turbo but is always disappointed that his Saxo would **** all over them

Saxoboy - not having a serious pop , but if you want a mega kick in the back 1/4 mile blaster you are barking up the wrong tree. A Supra Twin Turbo should be right up your street and not much more ££ than a Scooby. Even consider an Evo if you want the 4WD rally thing. What the hell get an old Skyline and mod her to 700bhp.

LG John

I suppose I might fancy something like a skyline or supra later in life (when I could properly afford one) but right now I'm after a fast point to point car (irrespective of the weather) and I feel a scooby is the best bet for me. I realise a standard UK will never have you glued to your seat but I'd like to think you could mod it so the shove is enough to scare your granny

Stop knocking the Saxo! When I jumped back into it today I did wonder if the scooby was worth the extra money, i.e running costs. The answer quite simply is no IMHO.......but then who cares, I want one anyway

MichelleWRX1994

Pah, just get an import, they can corner impressively too

Silver Knight

Get an Evo 4/5or6

Osama Mc Donalds

The early Bird eh Michelle and Silver Knight

rich a

if you like your saxo so much and think its so fast why dont you stick with it and stay on the saxo club site instead of coming on hear every now and then moaning about scoobies

Floyd

iTrader: (9)

I agree with Saxo boy (in parts). I've driven old and new shape, with and without PPP, each time I tried the PPP car I was trying hard to think 'is it quicker'?

There was no sense of occasion that I was driving something much better than a std turbo and certainly not £1600-£2000 worth of difference.

At least when I drove the STi7 it definitely felt quicker than a std wrx - no arguement there.

IMHO a de cat and dawes or ecutek with/without de cat will do the job better and for a lot less cash. Lets face it that's why most owners with a PPP'd car, then upgrade to a de cat because it's not quick enough to start with....

F

nigel s

The power delievery is smotth but put the car along side your saxo and you'll so see which is the quicker car, with or without PPP.!!
I came from a slighted modded VTS last year and first impression was this dosn't feel quick. But a quick glance at the speedo reasures me..

LG John

Rich a for your information I post on here every day and have only recently started chipping in on the Saxo site - shows where my loyalties lie!! I don't come here to moan about scoobies, I've been obsessed with them for years and love them.... BUT... they are hidiously expensive to run and I need to be sure it's worth having no life for. The saxo is a fantastic little car considering it costs £11k new and is miles cheaper to run than a scooby. I've never ever said it's faster than even a standard Impreza but when I took a standard MY99 on a Crail it only beat my by about 1.5 car lengths which is hardly a gubbing!

I am encouraged to see other people feel the PPP is too civil. It's not that I think it's a bad upgrade, in a couple of years time I might well seek that kind of smoothness and a PPP would make lots of sense but until then I think I'll look at other mods.

Incidently how would a car 'feel' if it had a PPP and you fitted a dawes to it and cranked up the boost a bit?

rjh

I had a 106 GTI and have now got a MY00 - although I never got to drive them side by side. My girlfriends now got a Saxo VTS and to honest they don't "feel" much different in terms of speed - tho just look at the speedo and all becomes clear (and the MY00's not supposed to be the fastest of the breed).

Gotta agree with you on the steering feel - the GTi and Saxo are fantastic, better than the Scoob, but I don't think you'll get the same feeling in a bigger car.

Richard

Vate

I've never had the pleasure of a Saxo VTS but I have had 306 XSi, GTi-6 and 406 Coupe 3.0V6. The GTi-6 is quicker on paper than your VTS but the Impreza clearly feels far quicker than the 306. Not surprising as it is. I remember an Autocar supplement on handling which showed the marginal differences between a Scooby (208bhp), Carrera 2, 306 GTi-6, an M3 EVO and an Elise. Suffice to say the Scooby basically had the most traction but the difference in the dry on paper (Long bend, constant radius, lift-off at speed) was marginal. There is a particular piece of road I have used over the years to gauge the acceleration of each car I've owned. The Scooby hit 70mph much before any of the other cars and the terminal velocity before I had to hit the brakes was 15mph faster. That is a very big difference. The 406 coupe was great but only at illegal speeds. On the continent I mananged 145mph and the scary thing was the calm in the cabin. Very surreal.
Sorry I'm sidetracked by fond memories. What you need to buy is an STi IV Type-RA. Lightweight, stripped out with manic short gearing. It will really give you a slap in the back and probably huge fuel bills and 12 points too.
I havn't tried a PPP'd car but with exhaust sorted, geometry done, Eibachs and meaty brakes my MY00 is just right. Not too powerful as it's only for the road but very quick point to point mostly due to the great brakes the ease at which the engine can be kept 'on song'. Once you've driven a standard Impreza for a while you stop realising how quick they are. I'm sure the VTS is a lovely car but the tin-pot 106 GTi is more of a driver's car I'm afraid ;-)

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

It sounds to me like you definitely want to save a few £££ and go for one of the older cars with the bigger turbo. I remember my first test drive, and I know exactly what you mean about the shove in the back when the turbo eventually wakes up.

That said, I also drove a newer car with the smaller turbo, and immediately decided that was what I wanted - however impressive the shove from the old turbo might have been (particularly for a passenger, who doesn't know that you've had your foot to the floor for a few seconds already!), I decided that the lag was just too annoying. As you say, the power delivery is much smoother and more progressive.

I tried a new STI too a couple of weeks ago - that's an engine which doesn't so much suffer turbo lag, as just needs lots of revs to extract the power from it, a bit like a VTEC. Definitely not my cup of tea.

The PPP was designed with torque and driveability in mind, and it actually makes the turbo come in sooner with less lag than the standard engine. I had it fitted to my MY00 after a year, and think it's great, but it sounds as though you'd be better off without it.

Whatever you buy, don't feel obliged to start modifying it straight away. If you're used to a responsive NA engine, I suspect that you might get fed up with the lag the first few times you get bogged down at the lights or miss an overtaking opportunity. There's plenty of time to tinker

Andy.