ScoobySteve69

iTrader: (13)

Due to the vast amount of which fuel debates we have on here, especially about the quality of supermarket fuels etc., I pulled this snippet from another forum (non turbo cars but still interesting).

All fuel (raw petroleum) is the same but it's the additives that make the difference. A petroleum chemist I read about, confirmed that Optimax is the best on the market because of the additive package. All supermarket fuels come from either the Matex or Purfleit refineries for the south east. These only take oil from the eastern block. They are most definately NOT the same fuels as ESSO and such like. They also remix contaminations for other companies then sell the fuel on via supermarkets as well. On average, each 50 litres bought from a supermarket will have 8% contaminates, and 9 grams of grit. This is based on random fuel tests which is always reveals the same results from all the supermarkets.

I use branded (Shell, Esso, BP) super in the M3 as it's designed to run on higher RON (suits the motorsport engine) and also for the better engine cleaning (as my car is 3 year's old). I also get a little more miles out of super than regular so I've found.

I hope this helps shed some facts on the common misconception that supermarket fuel is the same as branded.

LongJonnyGspot

iTrader: (12)

What about Tesco Momentum 99? Has anyone tested it?

Hawkeye D

I've always thought that supermarket fuel is chocolate fuel anyway, and am not the least bit surprised to read the OP.

I gave up with it years ago in my Nova GTE and Vectra petrols, and in my Passat TDi - I never got the MPG nor the performance from the supermarket stuff...it's cheap for a reason, and if it's cheap....it's crap.

I only ever put Vpower 99 RON in my Spec D, and that's the way it's staying, handy because two Total garages very close have now turned into Shell garages, and next door to work too lol.

Geeboi

^^ yeah my brother used Morrison's in his golf tdi,cost him a new fuel pump,filter's and 2 injectors,and at 500 sheckle's an injector,he was'nt too pleased.

Stay away from supermarket fuels,far far away!

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

Evo Mag did a fuel test years ago and their conclusion was that it didn't matter where you bought it as long as the fuel was fresh ie better to use a busy station rather than a small one where the fuel can lie for a long time. In saying that though I don't use BP as a couple of mappers noticed that the scoobs don't like it ...

TX.

Inviroman

iTrader: (2)

You have to bear in mind the moisture in the fuel, like said earler best use a busy station as the tanks empty there is condensation build up in the empty space in the tank, the pumps do have filters and water separators but these are not changed as regulary as you would think.
At work we just has fuel polishing carried out on large deisel tanks and the before and after results would suprise all!
We also was shown the level of particulates that are in fuel after filtered at the pump, this would also be surprising on how many PPM (parts per million) there is of contianinment.
Shell is the only producer (V Power) that has its own refinery and dedicated tankers for this fuel and is by best the cleanest out there.
Just be carefull that the garage does not sell you VP but in normal unleaded! As this has happened before.

ScoobySteve69

iTrader: (13)

Another quote, confirming this ^^^...

"The company I work for have contracts with a lot of petrol stations for the refrigeration and air-conditioning and I've spoke to some of the managers there and at the bottom of the fuel tanks is so many inches of water from moisture I guess. As it is heavier than the fuel it sinks to the bottom, if the level of the tanks dips too low it sucks up water which is sometimes the cause of bad fuel quality. It seems very believable to me".

bugblue1

iTrader: (3)

Hi,i use tesco super as no shell in town think closest to me is 20 odd mile return trip,how do we as the buyer make sure we get the correct fuel what we have paid for,does anyone now of a test kit for public use or the likes of? or are we again at the mercy of the petrol giants who for all i now could be mixing fuels to make more profit,i now they get tested by weights & measures people but ive only come across them testing it once in 24 years of driving..

Hawkeye D

I remember the weights and measures people turning up at an Esso on the Chiswick roundabout years ago when I was in there. They had these brass or copper looking jugs.

They appeared to have turned up unannounced - fair play if potentially pumps could be fiddled with.

Osimabu

iTrader: (2)

I don't think they'd have been testing for the type of fuel, merely that the pumps were delivering the correct quantity relative to the amount shown on the display.

Given that for at least two months this year all the V Power I bought at my local Shell garage resulted in no points going onto my Drivers' Club card, and only when I kicked up a fuss with Shell UK did it suddenly get sorted, I wonder just what sort of fuel I was actually getting.

But how on earth it would be possible to check this yourself, I've no idea.

Any chemists on here?

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Three points need to be aired here:
1. It is NOT always possible to use Shell fuel. We HAD two Shell stations here, now we have none and the nearest is 30 miles away.

2. On driving up to Harvey's last year, I fuelled at a Shell station on the A1 near Scotch corner. The car IMMEDIATELY began to show knock and I had to stay off boost for that tank. NOT ALL Shell is good fuel!

3. The fuel companies put out stuff like this to get people to pay their prices rather than supermarket prices. Beware of ANYTHING they tell you.

wrx_2005

...........and the conclusion is, take the bus, leave the car at home for weekend driving. I once put Morrisons fuel in my WRX remapped, and had no problems, but then realised from reading various threads , that V-Power is good stuff, I also once upon a time put in a tank full of BP Ultimate, car felt a bit livelier and responsive, felt like I had an extra 20bhp, or could I have been imagining things again.

thenewgalaxy

I am incredibly fussy about where I fuel my car. I find mine runs best on V Power but I'll splash and dash with Tesco 99 if I have to.

I've had some bad tanks of fuel over the years maybe it was psychological but I trust some garages more than others. I hate to sound snobbish but some garages look dodgy and some look like they'll sell you a good fuel.

waldmanbrown

Dont judge a book by its front cover

overboostUK

I have never, ever had a problem with using Tesco 99 or whatever the fancy name for it now is (Momentum?). In fact, I find it works just as well as Shell VPower does, obviously it depends what the car is mapped to run with, so it is best to use whatever it's been set up to use. As has been said throughout the whole thread, use a petrol station that is busy, so it's more likely to have "fresher" fuel in it's tanks than a quiet one would.
I think a lot of these "research" reports are probably funded or written by Shell or whoever it is that the report makes look good.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

The quote in the OP is highly out of date as Optimax hasn't been round for donkeys years, but I'll digress anyway: All fuels have changed in their composition since, even Vpower has changed (What? nobody told you? Oh poor you ). As now all petrol has ethanol blended into it by varying percentages. (Vpower and Momentum has more, 95Ron has less, naturally). Optimax never had ethonol (nor did the "old" VPower), so in part this makes anything related to this fuel or its comparisons totally out of date.

Seeing that no mention is given about the benefits and drawbacks of ethanol blended in fuel, its something that need sto be considered; Not only the way it affects combustion, cleanliness, but its lesser energy content, its substituition for arguably better octane boosters and its volatility of storage - not only in the car, but in the forcourt tanks (refer to mentioning of grit/debris), espcially given its hydroscopic nature (water = rust = debris).

As for the refinaries. Sorry, but no UK petrol refinary uses a different refining process for each company it supplies....To do so would just be economically idiotic. In addition there is no such thing as raw petroleum, that would imply it is pure light grade naphtha (the prime base stock of refined petrol), it isn't, if it were the fuel would have poor octane anyway. Its ALL blended (or "cut", as I'd like to say ) with lower grade crude fractions that been hydrocracked and catalytically cracked then blended with alkylate and higher fraction aromatics gained from isomerization and reformates to boost it up to the higher grade fuel that make the end product suitable for automotive use. The result is more petrol out per barrel of crude, but quality and volatility of the petrol is arguably not as good as it could be as the whole setup is geared for maximum quantities and using the most low value components as possible and least high value components, and it suddenly can't switch things around when a supermarket tanker pulls up. Hence the magical additives each brand touts on using, and broadly speaking, if the fuel is good, then you should not need the additives...should you?

The quality vs quantity is a issue: And its affect ALL petrol, not supermarkets. This is why modern petrol ages so fast if not kept in a perfectly sealed system (unlike my Jag, which leaches all the aromatic compounds out of the fuel lines Ever wondered why old cars have that "stale petrol" smell? This is why, its escaped as gas and been absorbed into fabric of the interior). You can tell by the smell: Old petrol smells rather like parrafin....because thats about all there is left, the volatile stuff that makes it burn well has all evaporated! And that could be a branded 'super-duper' fuel, or some 95Ron from a supermarket. In fact, moreso with the former super fuel as there are more aromatic and light density compounds. So given that as a fact...I will promise you this, you leave ANY petrol, from ANY source out in a vented container for long enough, regardless of where the fuels came from they'll all end up being equally as useless to use in a lawn mower, let alone a car engine, I'll guarantee it (actually, to be pedantic, it'll be worse for the lawn mower).

Which brings me to this point: I feel that my argument that lesser used fuels like VPower and Momentum is MORE likely to be contaminated or degraded IMO due to its lower overall throughput when compared to higher volume selling fuel like diesel and 95Ron. The fact that by law, Vpower and Momemtum only need to be a minimum of 97RON and 86MON to be legally sold in the eyes of HMCE, whereas 95RON has to be 95RON. Dwell on the likliness of having a "bad batch" of 95Ron vs a superfuel, be it supermarket or not.

Another point: I'd like to see the proof of contamination such as grit. As far as I see it that will be totally down to the condition of that specific petrol station, its age and how its maintained. I do not accept that a supermartket is any better or worse in that aspect, than say a 30yr old "branded" forecout out in the sticks with old rusting steel tanks. My local Tesco store is about 4yrs old....The BP, Shell and Murco (and Esso) near me on have all been there for longer than I've been driving! (16yrs), which would you expect to have "dirtier" fuel?

Final point; I'd love to know how I fitted 5.1 litres of fuel in my 1 gallon petrol container at the local Shell, I know they take a bit more than a gallon but a whole 0.6litres? Thats why I tested the capacity when it was emptied....Funny that with water 4.8 litres brimmed it. Not been back since, but I may try again and report them to HMCE if I get the same result.

mrmadcap

The biggest con is stuff like Diesel Ultra as sold by BP. Who in the right mind would pay more money for Diesel??

overboostUK

Agreed, that I am sure is a selling gimmick!

tattoosi

iTrader: (5)

that my friend is one hell of a write up

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Its a con IMO. although there maybe something in the cetane values etc, without the ingredients and proof its just a branding exercise IMO

Although what is worry with diesel is they are now blending them with biofuel (rapeseed oil). Morrisons is 7% last time I looked, don't about others.

The crux is our Seat altea specificaly says NO BIOFUEL in big writing on its filler flap. It sa PD engine, and injectors cost £200 EACH! So F**k that. Knowing these engiens don't really use fuel as a lubricant, there must be another reason it says not to use it, and I can hazard a guess what that reason is....

I recently serviced a Audi A2 1.4 Tdi which basically has the same injection system. On a pre-service test-drive it misfired above 3000rpm. I thought the tandem pump was knackered (or getting air) or the wiring loom was failing (common issue on these).

That was until I changed the fuel filter element (as per the schedule) and found it clogged with black sludge. Well, not sludge, microbacteria, which then causes aglae and fungi to grow in the fuel. Nasty.

New filter, problem solved....for now. If its in the tank, It'll clog again.

Question is, is the 7% biofuel teh cuase of this? All UK diesel is now allowed to have up to this level. And what is added to stop bacterial and fungal growth?

nyscooby

iTrader: (12)

Chemistry... fuel starts to deteriorate the minute it is made. The tankers measure their load at the depot and then dip their tanks after each petrol station fill. They measure what they have pumped into the petrol station and measure what has evaporated.

This deterioration is very quick. Thus fuel that has sat for a while, not at the petrol station, but in your tank is more the problem.

Q. So why do we not all get mapped at 95 but fill up with 99???

overboostUK

Even stood for a while, a 99 RON fuel won't have dropped far enough down to be classed the same as a 95. People can also get octane booster to add to their tanks, a cheap way of keeping the RON rating up

ditchyboy

So is 95ron with octane boost as good as 99?

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Now that IS interesting, since I get the same result over in France when I buy fuel for the mower........a container marked 5 litres holds nearly 6 litres.

I've never thought to try it with water to see what result I get then...but I will be doing

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Not a chance. The decent o/b's will raise 97 or 98 to 99 or so, but not 95.
Most o/b's have been shown to do very little at all

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

I agree - some off-the-shelf octane boosters are rather vague on the mix-ratios. I mean some say one dose per tank...yet it doesn't state how big the tank is? Somecars have a 55litre tanks, some have 100litre tanks.

Think I'd rather make my own OB. Toluene, Xylene, Meths etc. The calculation for the mix ratio are quite simple when you use a straight/neat chemical.


I've had simliar issues with trying to obtain fuel stabilizer to help counteract the ethanol in a old fuel system and low use storage issues. Lots of bold claims on the bottle, little substance on how they achieve those claims.