harveys headers and up-pipe...worth it?
07 July 2012, 08:08 PM
#1
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harveys headers and up-pipe...worth it?
hi,ive searched all over sn to find mainly good views on this but other mixed views aswell,my car will be going for mapping soon and im wondering wether the expense of harveys oe ported headers and up-pipe is a worth while mod.
spec so far.
1998 sti type r
2.0 jdm sti 2004 short motor
v4 type r heads
cosworth head gaskets
walbro pump
hybrid fmic
heatwrapped h&s sports cat downpipe
2.5" exhaust system
rcm induction
hybrid fmic
afp 20g
lateral flowed v spray 900cc injectors
apexi power fc
ngk 7s
samco inlet
im dont think the car would be laggy as the gearing in the type r is so short,so im not concerned about lag,my question is what gains have been had by fitting the headers and up-pipe?
are the gains in bhp and torque substantial or minimal?
ps...i will not be running any meth,so no point discussing this.
it will be mapped for v power only.
thanks.
spec so far.
1998 sti type r
2.0 jdm sti 2004 short motor
v4 type r heads
cosworth head gaskets
walbro pump
hybrid fmic
heatwrapped h&s sports cat downpipe
2.5" exhaust system
rcm induction
hybrid fmic
afp 20g
lateral flowed v spray 900cc injectors
apexi power fc
ngk 7s
samco inlet
im dont think the car would be laggy as the gearing in the type r is so short,so im not concerned about lag,my question is what gains have been had by fitting the headers and up-pipe?
are the gains in bhp and torque substantial or minimal?
ps...i will not be running any meth,so no point discussing this.
it will be mapped for v power only.thanks.
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08 July 2012, 12:29 AM
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TBH bhp + Torque gains will be minimal - maybe 10 -15 of each approx.
BUT its more about driveability....
with earlier spool up on the turbo, better throttle response / pick up, and of course a slightly larger power band. And you keep the scooby burble.
Stick on some Harvey supplied RCM wrapped headers and special up-pipe --- then its a different ball game. Double or treble the gains : )
A
BUT its more about driveability....
with earlier spool up on the turbo, better throttle response / pick up, and of course a slightly larger power band. And you keep the scooby burble.
Stick on some Harvey supplied RCM wrapped headers and special up-pipe --- then its a different ball game. Double or treble the gains : )
A
08 July 2012, 08:48 AM
#10
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TBH bhp + Torque gains will be minimal - maybe 10 -15 of each approx.
BUT its more about driveability....
with earlier spool up on the turbo, better throttle response / pick up, and of course a slightly larger power band. And you keep the scooby burble.
Stick on some Harvey supplied RCM wrapped headers and special up-pipe --- then its a different ball game. Double or treble the gains : )
A
BUT its more about driveability....
with earlier spool up on the turbo, better throttle response / pick up, and of course a slightly larger power band. And you keep the scooby burble.
Stick on some Harvey supplied RCM wrapped headers and special up-pipe --- then its a different ball game. Double or treble the gains : )
A
i thought the rcm header were rated at 400+ and harveys ported headers be better suited at this power level?
08 July 2012, 09:30 AM
#11
Below 400 the RCMs can make it very laggy whereas at that level Harvey headers & up pipe have good spool & little lag. As above though, if you buy the RCMs get the Harvey up pipe for less lag like I did. If staying below 400 idstick with Harvey headers.
08 July 2012, 09:41 AM
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08 July 2012, 10:12 AM
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Never had any experience of ported headers but have heard good things, quicker spool up etc! I bought Harvey's Tubular headers on my old Blob and it added some lag but o ce on boost it was awesome! Added 25bhp with a remap just by fitting the Headers! 
With your R, I'd go for ported personally! They will give you slightly quicker spool on the 20g and paired with the R close ratio box it'll be an animal!
With your R, I'd go for ported personally! They will give you slightly quicker spool on the 20g and paired with the R close ratio box it'll be an animal!
08 July 2012, 10:14 AM
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Never had any experience of ported headers but have heard good things, quicker spool up etc! I bought Harvey's Tubular headers on my old Blob and it added some lag but o ce on boost it was awesome! Added 25bhp with a remap just by fitting the Headers!
With your R, I'd go for ported personally! They will give you slightly quicker spool on the 20g and paired with the R close ratio box it'll be an animal!
With your R, I'd go for ported personally! They will give you slightly quicker spool on the 20g and paired with the R close ratio box it'll be an animal!
08 July 2012, 10:24 AM
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I think it depends on how far you are going to push powerwise as the standard headers wont see you past the 400 marker and become restrictive, so question being whats your intensions for the motor?? Ported harvey headers with matched uppipe will give better spool up times and the best option to go for under the 400 marker, up and over that marker the rcm ones start coming in to the picture......................
08 July 2012, 10:29 AM
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i would like to get as close as possible to 400 with my current spec and debating wether to buy something else to help get me there.wether nearly £400 for harveys headers and up-pipe is worth the gains im not sure.just dont want to get car mapped nd think i wish id done this/that?
I think it depends on how far you are going to push powerwise as the standard headers wont see you past the 400 marker and become restrictive, so question being whats your intensions for the motor?? Ported harvey headers with matched uppipe will give better spool up times and the best option to go for under the 400 marker, up and over that marker the rcm ones start coming in to the picture......................
,i dont think the 20g will make 400 bhp on v power only,i just dont want to come back from mapping dissapointed with the figures.so going on my current spec im wondering if there is anything else i can add to give me more chance of seeing better performance and higher bhp and torque,bearing in mind the headers and up-pipe are £400 which i dont mind paying IF they do the job.
08 July 2012, 10:41 AM
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Cant comment on the headers along with the uppipe as aint been in a car with that set up, i have just bought rcm headers but wont be putting them in untill i get everything to go with or will make it v laggy or so im told, but i have been in a car with just a trick harvey uppipe installed an it certainly made a diffrrence with the blower coming on to song, so maybe just go for uppipe if your not sure about the headers, although from what i read they suppose to do the job well as others have said, but think its more about the delivery of power rather than a massive gain if that makes sense at all lol
08 July 2012, 11:03 AM
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You'll find the 2.5 system MAY be a little restrictive, the FMIC will add lag along with the 20g but you should lose a little bit of lag with porting so yes I think it'll be a worthwhile investment!
Best bet is to speak to Harvey, he has a vast amount of knowledge in this field so he can advise you which to go for! I would possibly go for an FPR just to keep the fuelling spot on too!
Good luck
Best bet is to speak to Harvey, he has a vast amount of knowledge in this field so he can advise you which to go for! I would possibly go for an FPR just to keep the fuelling spot on too!
Good luck
08 July 2012, 11:14 AM
#19
Harvey is still recovering, although able to do most things, just slowly, as men of our age should
As above: you don't get great gains in either bhp or torque, but the car feels nicer to drive, spool is quicker and comes in earlier, the whole car feels more lively.
Mine is running unequal tubular headers and a Harvey Smith up-pipe to match. It's sitting around 400/400 off a 2.5 forged engine and an HS TD05 20g, with 740cc injectors and an FMIC, plus huge induction kit, running MAF-less.
I can potter about in a relatively high gear, then boot it and feel it pull away in most gears.
Plus I'm actually getting BETTER mpg unless I'm driving very aggressively, probably due to the increased torque of the 2.5.
As above: you don't get great gains in either bhp or torque, but the car feels nicer to drive, spool is quicker and comes in earlier, the whole car feels more lively.
Mine is running unequal tubular headers and a Harvey Smith up-pipe to match. It's sitting around 400/400 off a 2.5 forged engine and an HS TD05 20g, with 740cc injectors and an FMIC, plus huge induction kit, running MAF-less.
I can potter about in a relatively high gear, then boot it and feel it pull away in most gears.
Plus I'm actually getting BETTER mpg unless I'm driving very aggressively, probably due to the increased torque of the 2.5.
08 July 2012, 11:15 AM
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You'll find the 2.5 system MAY be a little restrictive, the FMIC will add lag along with the 20g but you should lose a little bit of lag with porting so yes I think it'll be a worthwhile investment!
Best bet is to speak to Harvey, he has a vast amount of knowledge in this field so he can advise you which to go for! I would possibly go for an FPR just to keep the fuelling spot on too!
Good luck
Best bet is to speak to Harvey, he has a vast amount of knowledge in this field so he can advise you which to go for! I would possibly go for an FPR just to keep the fuelling spot on too!
Good luck
08 July 2012, 11:28 AM
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Harvey is still recovering, although able to do most things, just slowly, as men of our age should
As above: you don't get great gains in either bhp or torque, but the car feels nicer to drive, spool is quicker and comes in earlier, the whole car feels more lively.
Mine is running unequal tubular headers and a Harvey Smith up-pipe to match. It's sitting around 400/400 off a 2.5 forged engine and an HS TD05 20g, with 740cc injectors and an FMIC, plus huge induction kit, running MAF-less.
I can potter about in a relatively high gear, then boot it and feel it pull away in most gears.
Plus I'm actually getting BETTER mpg unless I'm driving very aggressively, probably due to the increased torque of the 2.5.
As above: you don't get great gains in either bhp or torque, but the car feels nicer to drive, spool is quicker and comes in earlier, the whole car feels more lively.
Mine is running unequal tubular headers and a Harvey Smith up-pipe to match. It's sitting around 400/400 off a 2.5 forged engine and an HS TD05 20g, with 740cc injectors and an FMIC, plus huge induction kit, running MAF-less.
I can potter about in a relatively high gear, then boot it and feel it pull away in most gears.
Plus I'm actually getting BETTER mpg unless I'm driving very aggressively, probably due to the increased torque of the 2.5.
yep,i realise the torque will be less on 2ltr,maybe some harvey headers will add a bit of torque.
08 July 2012, 12:41 PM
#24
Thanks for your PM asking for a comment. You realise I am biased but I will answer as honestly as I can.
Firstly I came out of hospital in April and was told full recovery was possible, would take work on my part and could be 12 months. In view of the progress I have made to date this has been revised to 6-9 months. It was only at the end of May that the Consultant agreed I could go on holiday for a fortnight late June and I am now trying to get back to firing on all cylinders. This has been a bad experience and I would like to thank all of you who showed concern and send good wishes. Much appreciated.
I do intend to cut back on some of my activities which are already reduced but headers, uppipes, gas flow and intercooling as well as engine building are things I know a lot about and to a great developed from a hobby.
A 2.5 litre will benefit earlier than a 2 litre from tubular headers IF THEY ARE PROPERLY DESIGNED,INCLUDING THE UPPIPE.
Whether a 2 litre or 2.5 litre do not fit the RCMS tubular headers without my trick uppipe if you value earlier spool, quicker response and more torque right across the rev band.
RCMS tubular headers are well designed and effective which is why I sell them but the uppipe is a disaster area which is why I have produced my own with proven results as far afield as the USA, Canada, Russia and Australia, South Africa and many places in between.
On a 2 litre a 20G is around the bottom limit of where you should fit RCMS tubular headers and it will be moreso of a disaster without the trick uppipe than on a 2.5.
If you intend to go beyond a 20G at some time in the future go for the tubular.
On a 20G, 2 litre, it is touch and go as to what will be best. For future development and dyno queening tubular may be the way to go (with the trick uppipe) but if you are more interested in how the car performs and how it feels lower down the rev range, say between 1500 and 3500 rpm or marginally higher then you go ported headers and matched uppipe. The ported headers and matched uppipe certainly improve engine efficiency.
Cost is also a consideration. Ported headers and matched uppipe all DEI heat wrapped, five new Subaru studs etc. is £369 plus delivery. (Fitting here is a fixed £75). The tubular headers and trick uppipe, all wrapped, five new Subaru studs are not quite twice as much money from me. So cost has to be a consideration.
I would not be selling either if they were not a definate cost effective step up the ladder. I have not sold anyone who previously ran the supplied uppipe with RCM tubular headers that has not found a big improvement in performance as described above. I have not sold ported headers and matched uppipe to anyone that has fitted them that has been disappointed with the performance improvements.
With this information you have to make your own mind up which way you want to go.
If you have any specific questions I suggest you email me per profile. You can publish any more information on here if you wish but I am not on Scoobynet very much.
Now can you tell me how you fit two front mount intercoolers on a 2 litre ? Interesting.
An efficient front mount intercooler, such as a Hybrid tube and fin with low pressure drop and good thermal efficiency will NOT add lag. If you are experiencing noticable lag there is any underlying reason. Poor design of intercooler and pipework, poor efficiency, not properly mapped, wrong headers or uppipe, wrong turbo etc.
As regards an FPR running with your injectors, I suggest you have a word with your mapper as to the requirement of an FPR. Many FPRs are fitted needlessly when the injectors are close to the spec requirements. In your case you will have twice the injector capacity your turbo needs. Some mappers will be happy without an FPR while some may insist on an FPR.
Let us know how you get on so we can share information.
but I will answer as honestly as I can.Firstly I came out of hospital in April and was told full recovery was possible, would take work on my part and could be 12 months. In view of the progress I have made to date this has been revised to 6-9 months. It was only at the end of May that the Consultant agreed I could go on holiday for a fortnight late June and I am now trying to get back to firing on all cylinders. This has been a bad experience and I would like to thank all of you who showed concern and send good wishes. Much appreciated.
I do intend to cut back on some of my activities which are already reduced but headers, uppipes, gas flow and intercooling as well as engine building are things I know a lot about and to a great developed from a hobby.
A 2.5 litre will benefit earlier than a 2 litre from tubular headers IF THEY ARE PROPERLY DESIGNED,INCLUDING THE UPPIPE.
Whether a 2 litre or 2.5 litre do not fit the RCMS tubular headers without my trick uppipe if you value earlier spool, quicker response and more torque right across the rev band.
RCMS tubular headers are well designed and effective which is why I sell them but the uppipe is a disaster area which is why I have produced my own with proven results as far afield as the USA, Canada, Russia and Australia, South Africa and many places in between.
On a 2 litre a 20G is around the bottom limit of where you should fit RCMS tubular headers and it will be moreso of a disaster without the trick uppipe than on a 2.5.
If you intend to go beyond a 20G at some time in the future go for the tubular.
On a 20G, 2 litre, it is touch and go as to what will be best. For future development and dyno queening tubular may be the way to go (with the trick uppipe) but if you are more interested in how the car performs and how it feels lower down the rev range, say between 1500 and 3500 rpm or marginally higher then you go ported headers and matched uppipe. The ported headers and matched uppipe certainly improve engine efficiency.
Cost is also a consideration. Ported headers and matched uppipe all DEI heat wrapped, five new Subaru studs etc. is £369 plus delivery. (Fitting here is a fixed £75). The tubular headers and trick uppipe, all wrapped, five new Subaru studs are not quite twice as much money from me. So cost has to be a consideration.
I would not be selling either if they were not a definate cost effective step up the ladder. I have not sold anyone who previously ran the supplied uppipe with RCM tubular headers that has not found a big improvement in performance as described above. I have not sold ported headers and matched uppipe to anyone that has fitted them that has been disappointed with the performance improvements.
With this information you have to make your own mind up which way you want to go.
If you have any specific questions I suggest you email me per profile. You can publish any more information on here if you wish but I am not on Scoobynet very much.
Now can you tell me how you fit two front mount intercoolers on a 2 litre ?
Interesting. An efficient front mount intercooler, such as a Hybrid tube and fin with low pressure drop and good thermal efficiency will NOT add lag. If you are experiencing noticable lag there is any underlying reason. Poor design of intercooler and pipework, poor efficiency, not properly mapped, wrong headers or uppipe, wrong turbo etc.
As regards an FPR running with your injectors, I suggest you have a word with your mapper as to the requirement of an FPR. Many FPRs are fitted needlessly when the injectors are close to the spec requirements. In your case you will have twice the injector capacity your turbo needs. Some mappers will be happy without an FPR while some may insist on an FPR.
Let us know how you get on so we can share information.
08 July 2012, 05:10 PM
#27
No you can keep the burble if you fit unequal tubular as most people do. Iv got unequal tubular with Harvey up pipe & run 440 on 20% Meth with minimal lag. If in the future you may go for more than 400 then get the tubulars now. Whichever way you go get them off Harvey & get them wrapped.
08 July 2012, 08:48 PM
#28
The burble is caused by the unequal header length O/E or aftermarket.
Equal length, if genuine and you loose the burbble.
Equal length and twin scroll and it does not sound like a Subaru atall. When my Wife heard my STi3 Wagon for the first time with equal length and Scooby Clinic twin scroll she wanted to know what was "wron" with the car.
Equal length, if genuine and you loose the burbble.
Equal length and twin scroll and it does not sound like a Subaru atall. When my Wife heard my STi3 Wagon for the first time with equal length and Scooby Clinic twin scroll she wanted to know what was "wron" with the car.
08 July 2012, 08:54 PM
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The burble is caused by the unequal header length O/E or aftermarket.
Equal length, if genuine and you loose the burbble.
Equal length and twin scroll and it does not sound like a Subaru atall. When my Wife heard my STi3 Wagon for the first time with equal length and Scooby Clinic twin scroll she wanted to know what was "wron" with the car.
Equal length, if genuine and you loose the burbble.
Equal length and twin scroll and it does not sound like a Subaru atall. When my Wife heard my STi3 Wagon for the first time with equal length and Scooby Clinic twin scroll she wanted to know what was "wron" with the car.
does she still have the derv Jeff told me about at his house the other day, Harvey
