CavT

Think putting a car into trade absolves you of any problems from the DVLA? Think again!

The DVLA are exploiting to the fullest, the SORN/Continuous Licensing introduction with full vigour, and they are taking vehicles you simply wouldn't expect.

They are currently in the South West of England right now, in the Bath/Bristol area, and they are only going to make this more widespread as it will pay them big money to do it before Government realises they've cocked up.

New rules introduced in 2004 stated that if you're not taxing your vehicle, it has to be declared SORN.

Recently, they also introduced rules stating that if the vehicle wasn't declared SORN, then it has to be insured.

Sounds great in principle, but what about Traders?

Filling out Section 9 of the V5C/3 Logbook (i.e. the yellow section) does NOT exempt you from the DVLA being able to take your car!!!!

Think i'm joking? Tell that to several traders near Bath that have had cars clamped and then removed.

The DVLA have subcontracted a company to go around in a new Transit, which has cameras on each corner of the roof. Allegedly they also have sound recording equipment that can work upto a range of 20metres or so from the van, so anything you say is recorded, so if you're trying to give someone a headsup to move a car, its on record, and obviously if you threaten the drivers/enforcement officers, they've got that down as well.

But herein lies the problem.

If you collect a vehicle from a customer that you've just bought that is on a SORN, the second the DVLA receive the yellow part of the logbook, that SORN is now NULL AND VOID.

The trader cannot and is not supposed to declare SORN, because they are not the registered keeper of the vehicle.

If the vehicle is still taxed, you don't have a problem, but if it isn't taxed, then you do.

So, you have a vehicle that is untaxed and now cannot be SORNed, so I asked the enforcement guy, "so technically you can still take the vehicle?" and he said "yes".

If its on a public highway.....they'll take it (people only have themselves to blame in that situation)

If its being worked on, they won't take it..... however.

If its on the work premises and has been in trade for what they perceive as a long duration and doesn't appear to be worked on.... they can take it!

If the vehicle is off the road but in a public car park or communal car park and isn't taxed or SORNed, they can take it!!

If the vehicle is on the driveway of a private dwelling (i.e. a house) and registered to that address, they can't take it!!

A vehicle also attracts their attention if from the date of expiry of the last tax disc (2months and 1 day from expiry), it hasn't been retaxed or SORNed, they can take it!!

A couple of local garages that have had customers cars, a couple of the cars were taken because they were working on other vehicles, and the DVLA basically said "you've got 5 cars here but only two are being worked on" so they took the others!!

You think i'm kidding? I asked a Police Officer on the legalities of cars being in trade, and he directed me to speak to the DVLA guy, "he'll know more of the ins and outs" he said......... which pretty much means the Police will give the DVLA Carte Blanche to do what they like, irrespective of whether or not its right or proper or legal.

Secondly, the DVLA guy was good enough to tell me that its down to his "reasonable discretion", which can largely mean anything.

I gave him the example of a massive car sales place that has 200 cars that are all in trade.

He tried to claim that DVLA wouldn't touch vehicles for a period of 6 weeks, and then they would expect the car to now be out of trade and put into someones name.

I said to him thats ridiculous, because it is entirely conceivable that a trader can legitimately have a car hanging around for a long duration unsold, and now you are insisting that the trader has to devalue the car by adding himself as an owner, just because he couldn't sell it quickly enough?!?!?

So, the upshot is, that lots more legitimate traders are going to lose some of their cars, through no fault of their own via a system that doesn't allow them the ability to escape without punishment.

Watch out chaps, if in doubt, keep them out of sight, he did say that he wouldn't be making a point to go into premises to seize vehicles, but did try to claim he could certainly do it.

Read more: http://retrorides.proboards.com/inde...#ixzz1pHL19Q3F


Please feel free to spread the word as much as possible. This is NOT BS, this is not a load of waffle, this is happening NOW, don't let it happen to you or anyone else.

Alan Jeffery

It's what happens with NEETS. Give them a job with DVLA and look what happens!

tom g

rubbish

DT-SPD

iTrader: (7)

Why can't a trader go online or to the post office and tax a SORN'd vehicle that they have just bought/traded ?? Surely that solves the problem.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Sounded logical...until I read the bit about covert recording equipment in vans that work from 20metres.

Sorry that part sounds like utter BS, there is no logic to it. Seriously think about it: Recording equipment would be on the persons doing the work, not some damn remote laser audio surveillance used by MI5 for finding KGB moles The latter costs around £40,000 plus training and operators, the former about £40 and could be operated by a 5yr old child.


I await clarifaction from snopes.

Bristol98

No insurance in place? Traders policy wouldn't cover it because they aren't reg specific.........

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

But why should they tax a vehicle until it's sold?

If the above is true, and it really IS happening, which I have yet to see proven, then it's just greed, pure and simple.

The motorist has been vilified and criminalised, yet still a cash cow for FAR too long in the UK.

Thanks Labour

MattyB1983

iTrader: (51)

Trader can tax a vehicle using the green slip.
Traders don't 'usually' tax vehicles immediately though as that vehicle may remain unsold for a long period of time.
If they buy a vehicle that is untaxed they just keep it on private property. They have traders insurance and trade plates If the car needs to be driven.

If its on their property it CAN NOT be taken.

MattyB1983

iTrader: (51)

I've taxed many cars with my traders insurance, it doesn't need to be reg specific, the only rule is that the car needs to be in your name. Filling out the green slip is fine.

CavT

Its not rubbish my friend, i've witnessed this for myself, and I was the guy having the 20 minute chat with the DVLA enforcement officer.

This is only the tip of the iceberg.

They are deliberately going around trading estates to target traders premises.

CavT

I'm only quoting what the guy said to me. In all likelihood you're probably right, they probably don't have sound recording going at all, its more than likely a bluff so that people are less likely to do or say something theyfear might be recorded, but the rest, i've witnessed it with my own eyes, and know at least two of the traders whos cars were taken, including customers cars.

This isn't nonsense, its happening, peoples complacency in this will simply aid the DVLA.

I don't need to lie about this, I witnessed it for myself.

I would imagine it will end up in the local media, and when that happens, i'll post links to that.

Believe me, don't believe me, but please, don't call me a liar.

CavT

According to the DVLA enforcement officer, thats not the case.

If the vehicle was on land connected to a private dwelling (i.e. house) it can't be taken, but they are removing vehicles from private property in connection with the trade.

It might be that there is a grey area where they are using some kind of justification to take the cars which will be closed, but in the meantime they are exploiting to the fullest to get as many cars as possible before that happens.

MattyB1983

iTrader: (51)

If traders have unsorned and untaxed vehicles on their property which have been in their possession for a considerable amount of time then yes, I can believe the DVLA having an issue.
However, newly purchased cars that are untaxed and not sorned will not be taken. If this was the case then every dealer in the country will be having stock removed. The DVLA do not have the means to do this.

The guy you spoke to was clearly making the operation sound worse than it really is.
Also, why can traders not sorn vehicles immediately. The log book is not proof of ownership and once either the yellow or green slip is filled out then they have power over the car. Vehicles can be sorned online within 5 minutes with just a reg number and vin number. Both of which are on the logbook.

CavT

Only the registered keeper is allowed to declare sorn. When a car goes into trade, the trader is not considered the keeper and is specifically not allowed to do so.

Also, as soon as the car goes into trade, any pre-existing SORN is immediately cancelled, so its a catch 22. SORN before you take the car, and it will be cancelled when the DVLA process the yellow slip, don't do the slip and you've got problems.

As for not taking vehicles, they are not just concentrating on vehicles in trade, they are also targetting the customers vehicles on the traders property if they were not taxed or SORNed.

So the trader does 600 quids worth of work to the car, DVLA spots its not taxed and hasn't been declared SORN, they ARE taking the car, no debates at all.

So, the garage is now down 600 quid, and being that times are hard, I wonder how many customers will pull a fast one, pay the fine to get the car back and then simply not return to the garage.

The garages ONE security was to retain keys to prevent customers taking cars away until bills are paid, now an official agency is taking those cars, creating a loophole.

Obviously not every person is going to be so conniving, but, it can and will happen, and it'll happen with bills much higher than 600 quid!

tom g

for a start , if needed the trader has the log book so has the means to declare sorn, the boss i work for insures all stock on mid,in the cars for sale section .

MattyB1983

iTrader: (51)

The trader sends the yellow strip away and keeps the rest of the log book. Once the DVLA recieve the slip they are then aware that the car is now in trade and that the name on the log book has given up ownership of said car. The trader is then able to declare sorn.


I think you have either misunderstood what the chap was telling you or he/she had just glossed over the facts. There is no chance the DVLA will lift every untaxed or unsorned car. They just don't have the means.

micky

iTrader: (2)

as above total bull$hit , my cars are all insured on mid and yellow slip returned . i have no worries that the dvla will nab my stock over the weekend .

AJF

iTrader: (1)

Had a similar problem last year
Had a problem with a vito so sorn it so I didn't have to tax it as merc had the part on back order with Germany. Once the part came in had the van recovered to mot station who do all the work on my cars and vans. Once parts where fitted other faults where found while it was waiting for parts Dvla came round over the weekend and lift the van off the mot stations forecourt which had chains all around the forecourt due to beenig closed
When we phoned Dvla about it the contractor who had lifted it told them it was on the public road untaxed at which point they supplied a photo.
We supplied CCTV of them moving it and still lost in court due to the fact the van was not at registered address
The idea was to fix the van not and then tax

Adrian

comrade mackie

Under section 7a of VERA DVLA do NOT pursue 'SORN' cases that have had the yellow slip sent off to register the vehicle in the trade.

As for the new insurance regulations traders should update MID within 7 days.

The clampers will lift unlicensed cars, if they are lifting from forecourts or garages then i find it hard to believe.

Never had a problem and THB it sounds like the guy you spoke to was a ****.