Advice please, bottom end may have gone
13 January 2012, 07:03 PM
#1
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Advice please, bottom end may have gone
Hope I'm posting on the correct forum.
I have a 2.5 07 Hawkeye Sti, and on my way home from work today, I accelerated from a 30mph zone to about 50mph in 4th gear (not really hard acceleration) and I felt an engine hesitation, and the engine check light came on.
I took the car to a local Subaru specialist, who put the laptop on and got the fault code reading, of " P2006 Tumble Generated valve system 1 (Valve close)".
We took the car for a gentel drive, and he thought he could detect bottom end knock, which was confirmed by another mechanic useing a probe with eare phones on.
The engine does not sound correct, when driven, though water temp, tickover, exhaust, (no steam, water, or blue smoke ect. on show) all seem fine, also he said the fuel mixture was ok on the laptop.
The specialist is going to provide me with a quote for a forged rebuild on monday, so I would ask your thoughts on the matter, and perhaps some one could explain what part the P2006 fault code has played in all this, and if you feel somthing else may have caused my problem.
Thank you for taking the trouble to read this post.
Les.
I have a 2.5 07 Hawkeye Sti, and on my way home from work today, I accelerated from a 30mph zone to about 50mph in 4th gear (not really hard acceleration) and I felt an engine hesitation, and the engine check light came on.
I took the car to a local Subaru specialist, who put the laptop on and got the fault code reading, of " P2006 Tumble Generated valve system 1 (Valve close)".
We took the car for a gentel drive, and he thought he could detect bottom end knock, which was confirmed by another mechanic useing a probe with eare phones on.
The engine does not sound correct, when driven, though water temp, tickover, exhaust, (no steam, water, or blue smoke ect. on show) all seem fine, also he said the fuel mixture was ok on the laptop.
The specialist is going to provide me with a quote for a forged rebuild on monday, so I would ask your thoughts on the matter, and perhaps some one could explain what part the P2006 fault code has played in all this, and if you feel somthing else may have caused my problem.
Thank you for taking the trouble to read this post.
Les.
13 January 2012, 07:21 PM
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the fault code is for the tgv`s. These are pretty useless butterfly valves that lower emissions only on cold starts for like 20 seconds and restrict your intake for the remaining 99.99956% of the time you drive your car,chances are the butterfly valves/flaps are sticky.
13 January 2012, 07:39 PM
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think you can delete them as far as i know
could be a bit of a pain tho as you would prob need to remove the inlet manifold.to be honest i cant see there being much up with the bottom end..
could be a bit of a pain tho as you would prob need to remove the inlet manifold.to be honest i cant see there being much up with the bottom end..
13 January 2012, 08:19 PM
#7
Have a gentle drive down the road and at roughly 40mph in fourth have the throttle in a position where you are niether accelerating or slowing down i.e. there is no load on the engine and listen. It's at this point the noise will be loudest if the bearings have gone.
It will be a distinct loud rattle coming from the middle of the engine.
A common occurance is to mistake a failed cambelt tensioner for a failed bottom end so eliminate that first as they sound very similar.
It will be a distinct loud rattle coming from the middle of the engine.
A common occurance is to mistake a failed cambelt tensioner for a failed bottom end so eliminate that first as they sound very similar.
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13 January 2012, 08:25 PM
#8
Didn't think the STi's came with TGV's and it was a WRX thing .
Doesn't the UK Hawk have some sort of air injection system to help with emissions on startup?
Excuse me if I am wrong as I'm more of a Bug / Blob sort of guy LOL
Shaun
Doesn't the UK Hawk have some sort of air injection system to help with emissions on startup?
Excuse me if I am wrong as I'm more of a Bug / Blob sort of guy LOL
Shaun
13 January 2012, 08:28 PM
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The tgv's & secondary air pump only operate on cold start for a short period , if u were in 3rd or 4th gear I doubt very much air would be getting pumped into the heads unless 1 of the servos had failed a command to shut off / you can delete this & remove the pump servos & gubbons ov this useless piece ov trash / but as quoted above in no way would this reflect on your bottom end / hesitation , hunting etc is def air fuel problems , your secondary air pump may have failed all together as you do have codes up - if you do get conformation of this fault it's not unheard of & the pump is £1000 to replace - better off removing all together . U will need blanking plates for the heads tho 2 . Cosworth do them £60 but it's an awkward job. Don't scare yourself into thinking big problems , I'm sure ur engine will be fine
13 January 2012, 08:28 PM
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Car was fitted with Milltek exhaust with 100 cel sports cat. uprated walbra fuel pump,Green Cotton panel filter, an Ecutec remap, all supplied and fitted by Richard Bulmer's Tracktive Solutions about two years ago, and it has never missed a beat till today.
Les.
Les.
13 January 2012, 09:04 PM
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Like has been suggested before- get someone who has experience of knocking bottom ends to check it out. No need to rush into a forged rebuild if its not required.
Has it been rwgularly serviced with good quality oil (millers/silkolene?). Is there plenty of oil in now?
Where abouts are you?
Has it been rwgularly serviced with good quality oil (millers/silkolene?). Is there plenty of oil in now?
Where abouts are you?
13 January 2012, 10:29 PM
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I live in North wales and the oil was fine today in the Quantity and the appearance. I have had my car looked after and serviced from new by a Subaru specialist every 6 months (2 to 3000 miles). I will take there advice allong with the many knowledgeable people on this site that have taken the trouble to help me in my predicament, please keep it coming, and I feel its only fair to point out the garage I visited today went out of there way to help me.
13 January 2012, 11:21 PM
#22
......running 400 ish BHP Bug with methanol injection with the TGV's in place 
The question was I just wondered why the STi reverted to TGV's when they had the air injection system......typical Subaru LOL
Shaun
The question was I just wondered why the STi reverted to TGV's when they had the air injection system......typical Subaru LOL
Shaun
14 January 2012, 10:10 AM
#23
Presumably Subaru had to throw every emissions control device in the book at the STi 2.5 for compliance reasons.
TGV removal isn't THAT necessary. I've never seen any proof of the air flow drop figures that they cause.
Their removal does help with weight saving and tidying up the engine bay I suppose.
TGV removal isn't THAT necessary. I've never seen any proof of the air flow drop figures that they cause.
Their removal does help with weight saving and tidying up the engine bay I suppose.
14 January 2012, 10:23 AM
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Also the air system does damage the heads ask any respected tuner / like u say better to remove , less weight , trouble , & a cleaner engine bay
14 January 2012, 11:12 AM
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Another of couple of things that may be relative, while at the garage the car was a bit reluctant to start on a couple of occasions, and a slight vibration could be felt through the clutch pedal when it was depressed.
Could the relutance to start point towards a problem with the TGV, and could I be feeling the knocking of the bottom end through the clutch pedal.
Please foregive me if I am talking nonsense, I am complete novis in these matters.
Could the relutance to start point towards a problem with the TGV, and could I be feeling the knocking of the bottom end through the clutch pedal.
Please foregive me if I am talking nonsense, I am complete novis in these matters.
14 January 2012, 11:39 AM
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No 1 isn't related to another
If your adamant it's a bottom end problem could be a crankshaft oil seal / back to the air pump problem it's the round black cylinder next to fuse box passenger side , make sure the plug hasn't uncliped on the underside , follow the main pipe under intercooler there are 2 servos check those 2 / why do you need 2 depress clutch on start up ? Clutch sits in bell house on end of gearbox not in the engine / take it 2 get prop checked - but you can do those air pump connection checks yourself - disconnect pump if plug still attached start car if it starts ok & your cell light comes on constant u know u have a faulty pump / take it off & blank the air pipe with a bung until you can get the blanking plates - you will have a constant cell light on / so will have to get that switched off from your mapper
If your adamant it's a bottom end problem could be a crankshaft oil seal / back to the air pump problem it's the round black cylinder next to fuse box passenger side , make sure the plug hasn't uncliped on the underside , follow the main pipe under intercooler there are 2 servos check those 2 / why do you need 2 depress clutch on start up ? Clutch sits in bell house on end of gearbox not in the engine / take it 2 get prop checked - but you can do those air pump connection checks yourself - disconnect pump if plug still attached start car if it starts ok & your cell light comes on constant u know u have a faulty pump / take it off & blank the air pipe with a bung until you can get the blanking plates - you will have a constant cell light on / so will have to get that switched off from your mapper
14 January 2012, 11:52 AM
#27
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They now have the 3rd generation engines out, but this engine is the same as that in the hatches, and first saw action in the US in the wide track blobs.
Tony
14 January 2012, 12:03 PM
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Hopefully the new 2.5's will have fixed the issues the old 2.5 suffered (well it should do, its a totally new engine design 
) but the 2.5 was never that good an engine in standard form and even modified it can suffer issues, needs pinning/liners etc for strength.
Tony
) but the 2.5 was never that good an engine in standard form and even modified it can suffer issues, needs pinning/liners etc for strength.Tony
