benners

Please can anyone tell me of the progress of the PPP for the STI7. Has it been released yet? How much is it going to cost? Whats in the Pack? Can i order mine yet? Please help don't want to miss out and leave it too long before i get mine, thankyou

T5NYW

iTrader: (4)

Benners,
No news yet probably nearer to Autumm than Summer yes I have one on order Dealers need the VIN nuber to order it against
Listers ordered there for the Demo ages ago think I was No. 2 in Worcester
But Dave-Ts Ordered his TWO before the car me thinks LOL so God knows how far I am down the listDealer demo's first!! could mean I get mine Christmas and I didn't say which year LOL

Tony

benners

Dont know how much it is?

ARRON BIRD

I think going on information I heard yesterday it will be £1750.
And available in a couple of months.

T5NYW

iTrader: (4)

Arron.

Is that including Vat

Dave T-S

Tony

LOL

Registered our interest *before* Prodrive even said there would be one

Rang Mike Wood the other day and he even recognised it was me before I announced myself LOL

The best info I could get from Mike "I couldn't possibly comment" Wood was that they are probably close to signing it off, but IM have to give it the nod, then get it into production, then to dealers. Probably 4-6 weeks still.....

Still, it will work, and retain warranty - better than an untested decat exhaust with 1.7 bar boost spikes

T5NYW

iTrader: (4)

Dave,
Just looking for the better fuel economy not the extra Power
I'm not a Tecky but did hear that normal Asperated engines are 6% Fuel Turbo's 8-10% fuel (depends on amount of boost) and Subaru's out the box put 14-16% in with no power gains just to stop detting.

Tony
Flame suit on

Dave T-S

Tony

For any petrol internal combustion engine the stoichiometric ratio of air to fuel is 14.7 times air to fuel by weight. This is the perfect ratio for correct combustion and is what the Lambda sensor looks for whilst running in closed loop mode.

However, this is a light throttle steady state cruise situation and of course the vehicle does not run in this state for most of the time - load, temperature (ambient and engine), altitude will all play a part in the ECU constantly altering the mixture. The majority of the time the ECU will run open loop.

In theory the Subaru engine is no different to any other.

In practice, if I recall correctly it is generally accepted that most Impreza engines that have let go due to detonation is because the mixture has leaned out at high revs, often in a high speed for a long time situation.

It would be easy for Subaru to just program the ECU to chuck loads of fuel in, but they have to meet Euro 3 emissions legislation the same as all other manufacturers for the car to be sold with full Euro Type Approval. There is therefore a balance between running the car as lean as possible to get past emissions, and running it so dirty as to have no fuelling/detonation issues but it would not pass emissions.

Turbo engines are inherently dirty emissions wise anyway. This is what most of the work was done to make the JDM STi7 Euro 3 emissions friendly and why, of course, it is down on power to the JDM one.

As an aside, the PPP will not have to pass Whole Vehicle Type Approval as it is an aftermarket fit (and why all the UK300 PPP's had to be fitted AFTER the cars were registered) but from Prodrive's development point of view the cars still have to pass emissions, so the PPP ECU board will NOT be programmed to just chuck loads of fuel in.



[Edited by Dave T-S - 4/20/2002 6:44:02 PM]

JohnS

iTrader: (1)

If you had read this thread in members gallery http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/threa...threadid=87796,

then you would have found out that some of us on here have already driven a PPP equipped STi

Just waiting for the price to be announced now.

John

T5NYW

iTrader: (4)

Dave,
I just knew it wasn't going to be as easy as that and I guess you even simplified it for me Must get a new keyboard it's writing some terrible stuff lately LOL

John,
I went to Prodrive with Listers and was taken around by Mike Wood in his black STi with PPP and a group A STi. IMHO I thought Mikes STi7 felt seemed around the 325bhp yet the rumour trail suggests that PPP at 305bhp. but I settle for 261bhp if mine had the same torque
Probably going straight to muppet land for two stupid posts in a row How can I guess the Bhp of car???.I was Just guesstimating with the Heavier STi7 with the lighter P1 @ a claimed 280bhp that we were catching up with. 25 Bhp and X amount more Torque Than the P1. 45bhp more like IMHO

Tony

Carolyn T-S

Tony

Given it is 1485 kg or thereabouts, the STi7 appears to perform better than it should.

RR results suggest the STi7 *seems* to have a more efficient drivetrain with less friction losses than previous cars. I am sceptical - RR results have little place in the real world other than to pander to people's egos ( ) - you do not suddenly redesign a basically similar transmission and find an extra chunk of horsepower from nowhere!

I believe the six speed box probably gives the STi7 most of it's fairly impressive performance.

(EDITED BY DAVE AS I WROTE THIS AND FORGOT TO CHANGE THE USERID - OOPS - SORRY )

[Edited by Carolyn T-S - 4/21/2002 9:30:39 AM]

T5NYW

iTrader: (4)

Carolyn,
Thanks for understanding it's what it feels like not the needles on a gauge a grin a minute I was asked once at what speed do you change 4th to 5th on the old My99 how fast you had out of her!!!! the normal reply is to busy holding on to it to look at gauges. The only guage I kept an eye on was the fuel one thought it was a Rev counter the wrong way up. LOL
The six gears do help but miss the low down torque if you take off to gently at a junction can be sat a long time there waiting for some power I can see why the clutch isn't covered in warrenty now, apparently. PPP will give a load more torque and save a gear change or two
So Daves got PPP No.1 and you No.2 or maybe the other way round. Not wanting to star a family arguement just asking

Tony

Phil

Dave

I am interested that when you and Carolyn had your WRX's you dissmissed the PPP and praised Scoobysports mods at every opportunity.

Why now with the Sti's are you doing the reverse?

I understand there were initial problems re the restrictor on the full decat but hasn't that been resolved?

BTW

I am very dissapointed with the lack of pictures especially out side the house

The DBM and Red WRX's were wallpaper on my laptop for inspiration for many months.

Phil

Dave T-S

Phil

This isn't really a subject for discussion in depth here, but let it suffice for me to say that it is obvious that when the PPP is released it will be extensively tested and won't give 1.7 bar boost spikes like we and others had with the decat.
That speaks for itself - the product development and testing will be done by Prodrive prior to sale, not by the customer after they drive down the road.

I don't want to be part of suppliers' development program particularly with boost issues. I only want to use fit and forget parts that are proven to work, which is why we are going for the PPP. It obviously has the added bonus that it is fully warranted on a UK car.

Has the problem been resolved with the restrictor on the full decat? I have no idea (or interest), see previous.

The STi is also a different situation as it has many of the bits you might put on a WRX from an aftermarket supplier already fitted at the factory.

Just my personal view, of course.....enough said on this I think......

Re BTW - LOL, sorry about the lack of pics, waiting for the 18's, tints, lowering springs before the next pics

[Edited by Dave T-S - 4/21/2002 9:21:34 AM]

Deep Singh

Hi DTS any idea what 18's you gonna get or are you waiting to see what else is available.

Dave T-S

Hi DS

Waiting for a bit.....unusually for me

Phil

Thanks Dave

I think I get your drift. I personally have allways been limited to SUBARU only mods on the engine being a company car.I was never dissapointed with the PPP on the WRX

One final question WHY not LEDA instead of Prodrive Springs again there has been much about the performance of LEDA. Once again I went for the springs and was more than happy

Thanks in advance

Phil

Dave T-S

Phil

The standard STi suspension is pretty good. The dampers are fine, it just needs lower springs.

So, doesn't justify the cost of Leda (and I had concerns about the long term life of Leda, Carolyn's car was rattling/creaking really badly at the back after just 8 months/9000 miles).

When I first test drove the STi, I thought the Leda was better. Six weeks into ownership, I don't any longer.

The standard suspension won't need rebuilding after two years or so as Leda does, and if there is a problem with it my local friendly Subaru dealer will just replace it under warranty.

I'm not knocking Leda, but it is competition suspension adapted for road use, and that will *always* involve a compromise.

[Edited by Dave T-S - 4/22/2002 8:58:50 AM]

Phil

Dave

Thanks for your responses

Most interesting

PHIL
ps saw the pics on another thread, One word NICE

Fitz

If you managed to order it, did they give you a price ?
Both of my local dealers know nothing about it.
I think I'm right in saying that you have to get this thru an
official Subaru dealer and can't get it from say Prodrive themselves.
Do you have a ref number or something i can give to my dealer to find out some more ?
Thanks.

Dave T-S

Fitz
Sorry, excuse my stupidity - do you mean the PPP? If so, not signed off by Prodrive, IM or released to dealers yet.

Dave T-S

Phil
I would like to stress that all my comments are MY opinion and MY experience only - which is all I can speak for. I am sure there are others out there that have found differently and have different opinions.

Phil

Dave

Of course.But its allways interesting to hear other peoples opinion.

Phil

Fitz

Dave,

Yep, I did mean the PPP. Sorry, should have made it a little clearer.

Reading the thread again, I noticed that someone mentioned an estimated price of 1750.

Are these PPP's likely to be available only in limited numbers as a lot of people seem to be saying to reserve them, but a deposit down etc..... But if it's still in dev and IM and the dealers have not had it released to them, do you know how this is possible, if at all ??

Thanks.....

Dave T-S

Fitz
There is no official waiting list as yet - just the likelihood of an ugly scrum down when there is LOL

There shouldn't be a limit to the amount of PPP's released, but inevitably there will be a logjam at first of getting them supplied/fitted.

Any mention of price on here is pure guesswork, Prodrive haven't signed the PPP off yet, nor have IM, and an official price won't be put on until then.

The MY01 WRX PPP was £1600. I would expect the STi one to be *similar* if it has similar components, but there is unofficial talk that it *might* include a sports cat downpipe, and that would of course add to the price.

Floyd

iTrader: (9)

Dave

May I ask if you got your money back for the 'experiment' on your car, including fitting costs or do you have the kit lying spare in your garage?

F

Dave T-S

Floyd
I'll reply off BBS. It's not a subject to discuss here.

coocoo

dts
whaty
does ppp stand for please?

Phil

coocoo

Prodrive Performance Pack



Phil