mohawk

Hi all, could anyone recommend a turbo for my hawkeye sti type uk, I am looking to get to 400bhp with supporting mods and am unsure of what turbo to use. 400bhp will be more than enough for me and do not plan to go beyond this so a turbo for this goal is all that is required.
Also what sort of sell on value will my turbo have, vf43? to help fund a new one!
Thanks

mohawk

anyone?

Dougmy06wrx

iTrader: (4)

Hi, unsure of what turbo to use, but you should get around £ 400+ for your vf! I paid £400 for mine!

Doug

henrysmith

iTrader: (5)

Scoobyclinic - SC36, SC38 or SC42 billet turbo's. Have an SC42 on my GB270 and it's excellent - 400BHP on the standard internals/block is right at it's upper limit for power. Go for a SC36/SC38 with lower power but great spool and excellent on the road. How the car drives on the road is better than figure chasing/numbers chasing on a dyno (Just in my opinion though). Check out the Scoobyclinic Billet turbo thread in the trader announcements.

Mine went to:-
Full milltek exhaust with sports cat
STI TMIC,
K&N panel filter
Ecutek Remap
SC42 Billet turbo.

Originally made 410BHP(HP)/420Ibft but after some detuning to save gearbox/engine got 363/351 but great spool up and is super on the road.
Not so cheap but gained 130 BHP over what the PPP pack actually produced.

The VF43 on the STI is good for 350BHP though so a decent exhaust and remap would be good to start - add a turbo down the line if you want more

400 plus BHP and you need stronger internals, Turbo, Fuel pump, FMIC and plenty of cash!

Then there's brakes to be sorted, suspension, chassis the list goes on!

Sorry for the diatribe.

mohawk

Thanks both for your replies, my car currently has:
Full turbo back system
Walbro fuel pump
Induction kit
Re-map
up rated clutch
so I am thinking about the next step really. I understand what you are saying about not getting caught up in figures but I guess I was just using it as a benchmark
What is the limit of the sti tmic and the internals?
Was planning on doing the jobs in stages as im not in any major rush, have headers waiting to go on and was looking at a set of coilovers as well. Is a fmic the next step afterwards? should I be doing this before thinking of a turbo?
Sorry for all the questions but want to get it right!!!

harvey

iTrader: (48)

Why 400 bhp? Have you considered your internals, particularly your pistons? You will find 370-380 bhp much easier to achieve and substantially less money. Would a better idea not be to max out your VF43 and take it from there?
However, what about your pistons? No point going for 400 bhp and then having to rebuild your engine unless you have factored that in in the first place.

LegacySTi

iTrader: (13)

Sc40 billet to get 370 area.

Sc46 to get nearer your target 400.

And vf43 should as above pull back about £400

mohawk

As mentioned the 400bhp was a sort of benchmark figure really and not set in stone. Have considered the need for pistons etc but again I am unsure of the potential of the standard internals or the vf43 hence the need for the advice. When the car was mapped it was felt the turbo was probably at it's peak and that to go further I would need to change it. Just want a little more from it but in the safest way I can. I am aware this will cost £££'s and am willing to take my time in getting there.
Thanks for all the advice received.

henrysmith

iTrader: (5)

The Scoobyclinic Turbo's seem to easily make the power figures they claim. As on mine an SC42 with previous mods listed and on the first dyno run with an 'economical map' made just over the 400BHP (HP) mark. The mapper (Rich at Powerstation) said 420BHP would be easy with an FMIC and fuel pump but then you need the internals done and then the engine block/cylinder block I believe is not up to much more than 400BHP? (respected tuners feel free to correct me!).

The other good point of the SC turbo's is the early boost - my SC42 is on full (1.2bar) boost by 2750/2800rpm - was advised a second hand VF43 would be 3300-3500 rpm before this boost - hence why the SC turbos are so good on the road - more smiles per miles

harvey

iTrader: (48)

Unless you want to factor in major engine issues there is not much more I can say.

14N-FR

iTrader: (3)

I have just completed a 450+/490 build on my hawkeye STi running a MD321T. This was after the ringlands failed on two of my pistons when the car was running at 350/390.

I upgraded all my internals, Wiesco pistons, Manley rods, ACL bearings, Commetic gaskets etc.

If your pushing for 400ish bhp I would factor in a rebuild because if your going to run say a SC42 at 400bhp you will get ringland failure. To save yourself the hassle, I would opt for the rebuild now and buy the larger turbo (possibly a SC46/MD321T) and enjoy 450+bhp.

harvey

iTrader: (48)

Thanks for that. I have lots of examples of ringland failure at 360 bhp upwards so all these people that want to give advice about what turbo to use and encouraging the OP to go to high power without cautioning him on ringland failure either don't know what they are talking about or have no care if he gooses his engine.
Some pretty crap advice here.
Thanks 14N-FR for spelling it out.

mohawk

Thanks for the advice!
If I am looking to sort the engine out first what would be needed? I take it from the above I would def need pistons but what else would I need to add?
Thanks again.

henrysmith

iTrader: (5)

Who's providing crap Advice? As far as I can see all the replies state that anything near 400 BHP or more requires stronger internals/rebuild? Please clarify as to what you consider is crap in the replies and why? I admit my knowledge is very limited but all replies above seem to say the same thing generally?

14N-FR

iTrader: (3)

No problem. I learned the hard way, but it has worked out in my favour now even if my bank account is a little lighter.

If your thinking of pistons you might aswell get the rods and bearings done at the same time. Yes the rods and bearings will add around £400+ to the build, but your already 75% there, so it would be silly not to go the full 100% and get it all done.

After the internals are sorted out, you can choose your turbo or choice.

harvey

iTrader: (48)

You need a set of quality forged pistons on your Hawkeye if you want to venture past what your current turbo can do. You could then look at heading towards 430-450 bhp but to exceed that area you had better go to steel rods and at the same time fit a complete set of crank bearings.

harvey

iTrader: (48)

There are too many people on here that are quite happy to jump in giving advice on what turbo to use etc etc when they do not have first hand experience of what they are recommending and that is a great disservice to this BBS and its unsuspecting users.
The first advice to anyone with a Hawkeye is that there is inherent ring land failure history so tread easy at 360 bhp or thereabouts.

Henry Smith. You asked the question. Sorry if you do not like the answers.
Is your car a Hawkeye. I hope not for your sake.
Are you aware of the Hawkeye ringland history?
Why are you encouraging a poor innocent to fit a turbo beyond the safe limit ie 360 bhp or thereabouts or even less in some cases. Do you have adequate knowledge to give advice or is it that you don't give a stuff and just like posting.
OK you are happy with your ScoobyClinic turbo. Great but don't give advice if you are not suitably equipped.

scoobydog63

iTrader: (4)

What about a UK 2.0L do they have the same problems or can they handle more?

mohawk

Thanks guys, pistons have been ordered!

14N-FR

iTrader: (3)

Just pistons?

I would do the rods and bearings aswell if your getting the pistons done.

henrysmith

iTrader: (5)

Harvey,

You undoubtedly have far more knowledge than me, I'm not being sarcastic at all here and not trying to start an arguement, I enjoy your threads/responses as you obviously know what your are doing and give good advice and have some great products. What I could not understand was that - if you read both my posts - I state that the Hawkeye engine requires forged internals at anywhere near 400 BHP or above and I state very clearly that although when my mods were first done and achieved over 400/440 that the engine/mods were Specifically De-Tuned down to 363/351 which it now runs. In your post ( and other posts ) you suggest these very figures - sub 370 BHP? I have not stated anywhere that putting on a big turbo and running 400 BHP is a good idea on a hawkeye engine - quite the opposite infact if you read my posts.

I am in the same boat as anyone else with a hawkeye, have done the mods to the above figures and stopped there - next will have to be a rebuild, FMIC, Stronger Gearbox, Fuel pump, Clutch etc etc.

My point was that you have said my advice was 'Crap' but I think I give the same advice that you have - re-read my posts and tell me where I went wrong (nicely please as I am keeping it pleasant and always after better/further advice).

I have only given my preference on a turbo capable of running 400BHP or more and why I like it which is what the original post asked for?

one answer I would like is what are the blocks capable of running once internals are done - I was told that the block is basically the 2.0 bored out to 2.5 so that the block struggles as well?

mohawk

Just buying bits a bit at a time
When funds permit I will be getting other bits then laying out for all the work to be done!!!!!!! :@

harvey

iTrader: (48)

Encouraging anyone with a Hawkeye to fit a 400 bhp capable turbo without highlighting the serious ringland issues that are evident on some cars before 360 bhp is crap advice. Don't get carried away with this turbo can do x,y, or z because if that advice is followed it will end in a very expensive lesson as happened with 14N-FR.

The 2.5 block has relatively thin cylinder walls but the block itself is capable of 500 bhp plus. The Hawkeye pistons have ringland failures even in standard form and Subaru know this. At 360 bhp if the car is used aggressively ringland failure is almost inevitable. The next weak point is the rods so the power limit is probably 430-450 bhp before you fit steel rods. After that level there is the danger of lifting the heads so ARP studs are desirable. No issues with the crank. The block itself cannot be tuned to the level of a 2 litre because of potential head lifting and the thin cylinder walls and different tuning companies have different solutions, some of which clearly do not work.
We have built a number of 450 bhp 2.5s and I am building a bigger power 2.5 for myself but until it is tried and tested I don't know if my solutions to the head lifting, 14mm ARP studs and the thin wall cylinders will work. I won't be removing the cylinders but I will post photographs of what I believe the solution to be when that part of the build is in hand.

harvey

iTrader: (48)

Depends on the model and year???

henrysmith

iTrader: (5)

Excellent, just the sort of info I was after detailing exactly what and why.

scoobydog63

iTrader: (4)

What about MY03 sti?

harvey

iTrader: (48)

Turbo on your 03 STi is probably good for 340 bhp. You have injectors which are good to around 370 bhp and a bit more with a fuel pressure regulator. Most cost effective would be to put on a different turbo to max out your existing injectors and if you wanted to go even further a fuel pressure regulator. You have to balance the cost of bigger injectors, say 650cc against the cost of fitting an FPR.
You could consider a TD05 20G which is capable typically of 380 bhp (although many people claim a lot more) but if you want to go much beyond the ability of that turbo you need to start thinking about going internal and that becomes expensive.