MarkCSC

Somebody who shall remain nameless, is thinking about selling their Scoob and buying an Audi S4 Avant. Has anybody owned one or had experince of one. Is it faster than a Scooby?

Thanks

Mark

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Is this like -

"Doctor, I have a friend who recently went to Thailand on holiday and he asked me to ask you..."

OLI H

Mark,

No, but i've driven one and must say it's very impressive, in a slightly aloof way.

Very quick, about the same as the uk scooby upto 100 and then easily pulls away (proved quicker than an RB5 on the way back from Le Mans this year) and extremely well built / designed. Handling is pretty good, loads of grip, but steering over damped and likewise the brakes.

The 4 door isn't that highly rated, but i reckon the avant (which is the one i drove) is a superb Q car, if you can afford the asking price.

Oli

Liam

I agree, they are lovely to drive. A bit expensive for what they are but I'd have one. I'd be tempted though to go for the RS2. Just plain awesome

Liam

Jonathan

I own an S3 and one BIG word of warning. The Audi are losing BIG money at present. The S4 is getting hammered. Dealer Forecourt prices might not reflect that but one dealer told me they had a Ł4,000 mark up on.

If he must, buy secondhand or say goodbye to Ł5,000 the moment he drives off the forecourt.

Jonathan

Enjoying real depreciation not Scooby depreciation !!

andyp

Jonathan,

S3 - nice car....but I think I'll wait S3.1

Had any hairy moments with the S3? I hear they're gonna have to issue a 'Software Patch' for the Haldex diff because there is a bug in the firmware that is causing all the problems in high-speed braking on both the TT and S3!

Jonathan

Hi Andy

Ive not had any hairy moments in it. Taken it on two track days Castle Coombe and Donnington. Some at Castle Coombe and some at Donnington in damp conditions. Mines got an MTM ecu. In std form its off the pace. Spoke to the professional instructors at Palmer Promosport the other day. They run some TT's. They also run Impreza's, Passats, S4's, Caterhams etc. They are quite happy with the TT. Evo mag however did have problems with a Tail Happy TT but not with the S3. They infact made the S3 third best car in test. As Ive said to a few. S3 Interior and Scooby engine thats my car.
Still as of Monday I'll be running a MY00 and S3 for a while for a good comparison.

Jonathan

I test drove an S4 and would buy an S3 everytime. Just that bit more chuckable and involved

andyp

Jonathan,

As they say; the S3 is the spiritual sucessor to the Quattro. Sounds the dogs b*llx. What level of performance boost are you getting from the mods?

I gather from snippets of news that the problems with the Haldex are very real...however they only seem happen at 'Autobahn' speeds. I guess this means super smooth roads with big sweepies that you can take at speeds over 120mph. Not your everyday situation...not even on the track. I've heard that the bug in the Haldex software causes the clutch to engage in the wrong mode when the brakes are applied. Again, not a situation you're likely to encounter on the track. But next time you're in Germany be careful

Andy

DYNT

RS2 Avant ..... is in my workshop now.

Hehehehehe ... great car !!!!!!!!

Cheers

Jonathan

Andy

The car was dyno'd at 250bhp and 280lbft. MTM uses overboost for a brief moment. As one person on the BBS put it his Scooby was dyno'd at 240bhp as well at PE. On the straight at Donnington it was even steves.

Jonathan

firefox

Jonathan...

Is it just the ECU ? Or the KKK turbo upgrade too ?

J.

JAMES.M.

A reguar customer of mine has just bought an S4 and he says it scares him how quick it is!
This is from a man who owns a Ferrari 355, a TVR Grififf 4.3 and an original short wheel based Audi Quattro sport!!!!!!

DAZ

ive test diven an s4 not that impressed
went round the lanes near shewsbury.
had it slide on most bends a bit worrying.
it is quick but theres a lack of feed back.
nice inside but big money.just after woulds i brought an sti v5 lots more car than any audi{apart from rs2}.he would be better with the rs4 or scoobyevo

cheers
daz

cars a bit boring all in all

Jonathan

J

Just an ECU. The S3 runs a larger turbo than other VAG variants of the same engine and also has twin intercoolers.

It was dyno'd in std form at 215 bhp and 215lbft. On a track day after a few sessions you can feel the ECU limit the boost high in the rev range. MTM seems to have access to factory codes. Top guy there used to be Audi ECU engineer.

Jonathan

Oge

I once got a ride in a ABT AS4, which is basically a 1.8T Quattro A4. It's built by ABT in Germany, among other things the engine is enlargened to 2.0 litres and power is somewhere in the region of 310 bhp. ABT competes in the German Touring Car Championship so I would assume that they have the know-how. So what's my point? The AS4 is a direct competitor aimed straight at the S4 clientele, and it is around Ł20 000 cheaper (here in Finland at least) . So if you are going to buy an S4 I would seriously consider the ABT alternative.
More information can be found at

Reza

Test drove an S4 a while back. Superb torque as I could floor it in 4th at 30mph and throttle response and pickup were instantaneous. A bit heavy though and cornering was must less adjustable than the Scoob. Also drove a friends TT and that was a much better car in terms of feedback and feel.

Liam

I'd completely forgotten about ABT, that's what I'd go with!!

Jonathan

I was going to go with Abt, but the importer seems to work from his flat. Goes away for days on end. Not very helpfull if you have a problem with your car. Also he marks prices up by at least 60%. His price 1,700. MTM price 1,100.

Abt great company, crap importer.

GaryC

Lucky enough to have driven S3, S4 and A6 4.2 Quattro.

Was very unimpressed with S3, quick-ish, but numb, and sounds awful, S4 better but still very numb and feels heavy. Didn't feel massivly fast. A6 4.2 was easily the best of the three - S6 should be even better!

Aaron Payne

Do you guys not remember the Driven Shootout featuring Ander's 22B vs S4 vs M3. The 22B was quickest to 60 by a second from the S4 then M3, however the S4 was the quickest through the driven esses from the 22B then M3. Overall the they preferred the S4 as the fastest "real world car".

Jonathan

The A6 looks like a remodled Scorpio.

Jonathan

mike_nunan

Surprised no-one has mentioned the new Audi RS range. 360bhp RS4 Avant, anyone? Trouble is, you'll need deep pockets I fear. ISTR the asking price will be in the 40+k bracket.

Aaron, the main reason the 22B was slower through the esses in Drivel's test was that they had set the adjustable dampers rock-hard on the rear for some lairy cornering shots, then left them that way for the "proper" test. They also caused damage to the car and seemed less-than-competent drivers to say the least. I'm sure Anders will be happy to supply further details/bitching ;o)

(And no, I'm _not_ just sour-graping because an Impreza got beaten, before anyone starts. Just the facts, ma'am.)

-= mike =-

Liam

Why not try and get an ABT direct instead of through the importer? Surely they can't all be useless!

Oge

Jonathan: doesn't seem like the ABT importer is doing it very profesionally, and that's too bad. We have a bit of the same problem here, all the guys seem to care about is getting a good profit, instead of satisfied customers. For example when I bought a set of wheels from them, it turned out that they had sold me a set of tyres which didn't quite fit the wheels!
But concerning the prices of ABT and the other German tuners then the fact is that ABT is the most expensive one, but probably the best.
Well frankly, any problems concerning ABT are not really our problems, are they?

Paul Wilson

I was in an AUDI dealer yesterday looking for a company car for my step-father, offered Ł1500 off an A4 without me asking! This is apparantly dtright from AUDI for December. Just make sure youe friend doesn't pay full price.

DAZ

make sure he doesn't buy it

theres a lot better for that type of money

cheers
daz

Oge

I had an Audi A3 before I bought the Impreza, and I must say i was not impressed at all! There was almost constantly something broken, I won't go in to details but there were repeated problems with the airbags and electricity. The final thing that made me make up my mind was when the clutch broke down 24 hours after I had the car serviced. I am not the only one with similar problems´, so if anyone is considering buying an Audi, I would recommend you to think twice!

Anders

The Driven programme revealed the farce of "TV journalism"!

They wanted some lairey shots, however the car kept to its line at speeds far higher than either the M3 or Audi.

The drivers lost their nerve and asked Pete Croney to make the back rock hard for some "sideways shots", before he could return the Leda suspension to normal they drove off to the Esses and proceeded to make a pigs ear out of it.

When Pete Croney drove them with the suspension set up appropriately he was several seconds faster than the Audi!

They had to buy a new clutch as they burnt out the original doing 0-60 in 4-4.2 secs all morning.

The time they posted for the programme was with a knackered clutch!

Still at least in the fist 29,000 miles the car was reliable.

quattro

Just read all this about the S4 for the first time. Did not even think any other cars would be covered and, happy to say, most posts confirm that is indeed the case.

It is nice to see that the man who asked the initial question still has not been given the answer. No wonder, when apart from one person who has an S3 in the family (and this car, by the way has absolutely nothing to do with the S4 whatsoever in any way, form or intention) and either buys everything and anything Subaru UK or Prodrive suggest, or talks about depreciation, as well as a few nice guys who had a test drive, there is very little chance for someone owning and driving an Impreza to be even interested in something like an S4 Avant.

Well, sorry to disappoint you, but I owned and S4 Avant from October 98 till October 99, drove one of the two existing (rolling) prototypes of the forthcoming RS4 and will be getting an RS4 when it sees the lights of the day in RHD form to be driven in addition to an Impreza. Not only, my friends at Audi made me a nice special ecu for my S4 Avant which generated only 500 Nm of torqu in a flat line in any gear from 1600 to 4500rpm.

So, what was it like? Unlike the RS2 who was for people who did not care about much else but a Porsche feeling, undigested food in their stomachs driving it after a meal, and tons of what is so often wrongly called 'flickability', S4 is a far more refined and sophisticated 'express' which is as fast and as driveable as other thing(s) we like so much on wheels, but in a different manner. Six cylinders and two small turbos (no lag at all!!) coombined with lots of cc have their contribution to it. Laving aside a somewhat disappointing (slow) gearchange as well as a very different behaviour of the 4-wheel drive Audi system (asking the driver to understand it in order to get most of it), it is a wonderful piece of auto machinery, but not for track days or whatever of the kind. There is no question in my mind I know which car I would take for a long, sporty journey and which for A or B road runs, although S4 can easily be very rewarding there. One other thing all owners of S4 hope to see improved on with the RS4 is a pretty bad cabin trim rattle/noise situation as no one seems to have thought that harder sports suspension and big wheels and tyres would expose a number of little snags which were totally inaudible on other, more civil versions of the same car. Roadholding, steering, brakes - all extremely good in every respect, but, again, the car feels completely differently from all Imprezas, Lancers or similar types of cars.

Unlike most others, I will not go into the 'value for money' discussion. Price has nothing to do with these things (as far as I am concerned) and it is a question of how much is there and what each one of us wants. I would never expect many Impreza followers to like something like an S4 and RS4 will (thankfully) be no less sophisticated, smooth and, at the same time, as wild as it's driver wants it to be (and even sharper performer than the S4)

Another example of comparisons which should never have taken place as one can only realistically compare creations and things of same or similar kind.

q.

PS. If anyone thought this was an attempt to present the S4 in a better light than what has been said above or 'defend' something someone did not like, it is, of course, nothing of the kind. As you know, I never do that.

PPS. Mark Champion asked is it faster than the Scooby? Well, Mark, apart from occasional few tenths of a second slower 0-60 (which I know everyone checks on a daily basis) it is as fast as the STi Impreza and you can still hear the radio at 175mph (de-limited).



[This message has been edited by quattro (edited 05-12-1999).]

jeremy

Quattro,

Did you ever drive a real Quattro (Ur)? How did that compare with your new audi's?