Ian Cook

I am flabbergasted by the way one of my friends has been treated by our judicial system, and thought you should all know about it ! Hope i dont bore you, and moderators please feel free to move it !

Earlier this year my friend was stopped for exceeding the speed limit by an unmarked Volvo, the officer in the car (on his own, no video evidence) claimed she was doing between 90 and 99 mph on the M42! She doesnt argue the fact but there were extenuating circumstances, namely her mother had fallen at home and she was rushing to see her !

She gets a summons through about 8-10 weeks after the event, consults and employs Serghis (sorry if spelt wrong) the motoring specialist from Brighton (i think)and lets the court know she wishes to appear to defend herself, and asks (in writing) for calibration certificates and copies of the officers log book etc.

Receives a court date, this approaches with no sign of the documents requested, contacts the liasion people, who adjourn the case, re-request the docs, and wait for a new court date !

New court date comes through, still no sign of docs etc, so contact liaison office who say they will adjourn again. This is where it gets messy !

Prosecutor goes into court to request a new adjournment for the documents etc, this is over ruled by the clerk of the court? the prosecutor then goes onto say that he knows my friend wishes to be present in court ! this is also over ruled by the clerk of the court ! and they try the case without my friend even knowing it has gone ahead ! a few days later she gets a letter from the DVLA asking her to send her licence in, so she calls them up to enquire why, and is told to receive the 5 points she received in the court ? she says what 5 points as the case was adjourned ? they say it wasnt adjourned it was tried in your absence ? now bearing in mind my friend hasnt received notification that this happened yet ? Various phone calls and letters to witness liaison follow ! Still no notice to say that the case had been tried from the court, no notice to say how many points or how much fine she got ??????

Now 2 weeks on she has received a notice to say that she has a warrant out for her arrest for failing to pay a fine she didnt even know she had been given ? Further phone calls and letters have now been sent and made and we are awaiting the results of this ! appararently there has been a **** up and she should have been given 28 days, the date the fine was due was the 11th, the case was held on the 4th, she received notification that the case had been heard today the 17th!!!! She now has a mark on a clean criminal record that says she has failed to pay a fine, that she didnt even know had been issued ? Obviously complaints are going to be made, but to appeal would mean a visit to crown court and probably 5K over a few years !

During one of the conversations today, she was told it was up to her to fight and prove otherwise and she was guilty until she could prove herself innocent ? i always thought you were innocent until proven guilty ?


Sorry this is long, but i needed to get it off me chest !

Well, i await comments, and apologise for ranting ! and hope it makes sense !


[Edited by Ian Cook - 4/17/2002 7:40:51 PM]

Yorkie

Ian,

Sorry to hear about this, but I am afraid it just doesn't surprise me one bit. If some un employed (doesn't want to work) toerag thief in his council flat (free rent of course) gets stopped in his untaxed uninsured vehicle he simply gets a warning. Thats what really annoys me, pay your way in society and be a normally law abiding citizen and break the ludicrously low 70 mph motorway speed limit and woe betide you ! It stinks [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] Speeding is simply another form of backdoor taxation: Speed tax.

Yorkie

nigelward

Didn't realise that the Police State had been introduced already. Guilty or not seems a little underhand to me.

Looks like the courts are getting through the 'minor' cases by making everyone guilty and forcing them into costly and prolonged appeals in the hope that no appeal will be made or the guilty party can't afford it.

Should your friend be in the unfortunate position to come before a court again I'm sure the judge will be more than happy to take the previous unpaid fine into account, without knowing what happened .

Hope something positive comes out of this for your friend, it is not a wonder no one has any confidence in the courts anymore.

Nigel

NoAngel

Thats a bummer, what a nightmare.

Hope it all works out for your friend Ian

boomer

First step for your friend is to get in touch with "Serghis" to start whatever legal process is required to contest this ridiculous charge. Surely legal aid is available if needed?

Second, contact the local AND national press to publicise and highlight the way OUR taxes are being used to prosecute potentially innocent (or at least less guilty) people.

Thirdly, try contacting the ABD to see if they can assist.

Why, oh why, do the authorities seem to chase generally law abiding citizens, yet let thugs go free???? [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

mb

Yorkie

They don't make any money out of thugs and scum, cos they can't pay fines etc. [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

tarmacterrorist

Yorkie, well said.
Where do you think the money comes from to pay for the TV, DVD, games console etc that we give to the toe rags responsible for crime.

BOB.T

what a pile of stinky poo[img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img][img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

Ian, I think you should take your car into court and unleash the antilag on them

Bob

Mark Underwood

She can appeal and from I know of Andreas Serghis he will get it sorted. She might have to go before a Judge In Chambers etc. She'll get hers costs back and more than likely win the case if it goes for a Judge.

SHE HAS TO ACT SUPER PRONTO QUICK

Robertio

iTrader: (1)

I'd be more than a little upset [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] and get an appeal in ASAP, might even be worth looking at putting a charge against the clerk, etc. for slander (or similar) As they have accused her of being guilty of a crime which has never been proven (would be on very dodgy ground, but anything that can cause those involved hassle has to be worth looking into) (would not be possible if she has already admitted guilt of course)

Best of luck to her.

catflap

seems like a good cause of charity for the fight, get all scooby netters to send a quid in the name of fredom, AND FIGHT THE SYSTEM.

Sala king ould make car stickers fight the good fight

the system sucks

pmortlock

crap one, good luck. is there chance of appealing? I'll get me coat.

Ian Cook

Thanks for the responses guys, a letter has gone to the court with copies of all the letters exchanged between my friend and witless liason, and all the other letters sent, we are awaiting a response, although they seem to be pretty slow at doing that ! Its stratford magistrates by the way !

Serghis said he would take it on straight away, but that it would cost thousands and probably several years, and if you dont have this much spare cash floating around it is difficult !

Just need to state its not the actual speeding we are contesting, its the fact they tried it without even letting her know they had ? the first she heard was from the DVLA a week after the date of the case (which was supposed to have been adjourned) asking for her licence ! it was over a week later that Stratford actually decided to write, and that was to say a warrant had been issued for failure to pay a fine ! They didnt even bother to write and tell her that the case had happened and she was given 5 points and a fine !!!

Still seething, sorry about ranting !

Mark Underwood

Ian

I bet your seething and so would I. Is she a scoobynetter? If she were then perhaps a case of us "friends" clubbing together a quid each to help fight the injustice...it would have my vote!

Sue

Ian,
Thanx for writing this all up for me.
I felt so overwhelmed by everything that has been happening to me that I wasnt able to put it all into words in any coherent way.
Under normal circumstances I would come out of all this fighting. I hate injustice in any shape or form,and while I accept that I had initially broken the law by travelling on a motorway at 90 in an Impreza,I don't feel that I deserved to be treated in the manner meted out to me by the Judicial system.
The latest update is that I received a call from the Magistrates Court this morning to be told that the Warrant issued for my arrest for non payment had been recinded,and the date for payment extended to its correct date of 3rd May.I am only grateful that the Police had not acted promptly upon the warrant,as I doubt that my protestations at the time of arrest that there had been "an administrative error" would have gone down very well...or carried much weight.
Having talked to Andreas Serghis at some length on this matter I feel that I have no alternative but to let the matter drop.He has assured me that there is a Human Rights case that could be proven,but that to do this would involve a large legal bill which would have to be funded in an on-going manner before compensation was finally available,and that it could take up to 3 years to prove.His advice to me was quite chilling...."Sue,I have to tell you that the system sucks,and that justice in this country is only available to the very poor and the very rich,I think that you will simply have to be pragmatic"
I am currently going through a marriage break-up with no idea what finances I will have available to me over the next few months notwithstanding the next few years,and don't feel strong enough to be able to cope with the emotional strain of a prolonged court case.
In 3 words...I feel broken
Many many thanks to everyone who has commented on this because your words have given me a lot of comfort at a time when I am very low.I know nothing can be done,but good wishes from people who share my feelings of despair and anger at the system in which we all have to operate,helps.
Once again Ian,thank you for your help x

Neanderthal

iTrader: (6)

This just highlights everything thats wrong with the "system" in this country [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

All I can offer is my deepest sympthies Sue

YHM

Matt

Jeff Wiltshire

On occasions like this I really begin to wonder where this country is going too...

This has to be worth spreading around the national press, write to your MP maybe. It's such a complete miscarriage of Justice that you wonder if one of the charities might take it on.

Sue, chin up and best of luck.

Jeff

ChrisB

[img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

Not a lot I can say Sue other than join the other guys and offer my best wishes.

Maybe start by speaking to the local paper? A miscarriage of justice might get their attention for a little bit of press coverage? Echo Jeff's idea and definately write to your MP.

[Edited by ChrisB - 4/18/2002 1:56:03 PM]

Jon1T

Sue -why don't you contact someone at the Daily Mail - it sounds like something they'd be interested in......the only way to get rewultys in this country now is to do something like this.

I am horrified at what you've gone through - is there no complaints system - ither against the Police for what must amount to withholding evidence, or against the court themselves?

Sue

The Court tells me that the only thing that they have been at error with,is a breakdown of communication between the Witness Liasion Department and themselves...they had not received any of the letters that I had sent through to the Police requesting information and therefore had no knowledge of why adjournments were being requested.My argument is why a Department called Witness LIASION wasnt able to liase at even a basic level,and why I was not kept informed of the situation as it progressed.Why was I given misleading information by the Police who informed me that the case had been adjourned when patently it hadnt been,and why was I not telephoned on the morning of the Court case that my case was to be adjudicated after the Prosecutor had made it plain that I wished to be present and legally represented.
I am awaiting a response now from a formal letter of complaint that I have sent to the Administrative Officer of the South Warwickshire Courts,and will then start writing further letters when I have heard his reply.
The Police have told me that I have the right to re-open the case,but have added that this may change the outcome of the original judgement of 5 points and £210 fine,Serghis has advised me that this is a reasonable outcome for the speeding offence that was being considered and that re opening the case may not prove in my favour,he would only consider a further case as a separate issue to deal with an infringement of Human Rights in the manner in which I was dealt with,so appeal on the original case seems not to be an option.

MichelleWRX1994

Sue

go to the papers [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

This is appalling [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

Fortunately I seem to be a little bit luckier with my situation though I am disputing one thing [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

Why do the police and justice system wonder why we have no faith in them?

Continuous cases like this are driving our confidence in them down.

Sue, email me sometime.......

Take care,

Michelle.

yoza

Hello Sue,
Did your solicitor hint on how much£ it would likely cost you to pursue the case to deal with the infringement of human rights?If so how much,if you dont know ask him for a ball park figure,and post it on this thread.Im quite sure that the people who read this will help you out as I am willing to do.Obviously if you dont feel like pursuing this matter,dont let others pressure you into it,but if you do then go for it.Like it has already been pointed out,your not going to get the penalty quashed,but you deserve the justice system to be used properly,and not in the slap dash fashion it has been in your case.It sounds like you had no representation at all,not a difficult day for the prossecution was it!

Si James

Any lawyers out there who could act for free?


Si

The law's an ***.