Engineering/Technical Statement - Subaru UK
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Engineering/Technical Statement - Subaru UK
http://subaru.co.uk/general/engineer...ical-statement
Originally Posted by Subaru UK
You will have been referred to this statement from your contact with several social networking sites.
Due to the fact that there has been quite a large amount of inaccurate and misleading comment on a number of these sites, we felt it appropriate from an engineering and technical perspective to outline the design brief of the 2.5 litre Subaru Boxer engine fitted to 2008/2009 Impreza WRX/STI and further explain some facts that will help your understanding.
Subaru is an environmentally conscious company that seeks to build products that are thoroughly engineered for the purpose for which they are intended with regard to delivering class leading performance whilst still meeting the very stringent environmental control standards demanded from modern day vehicles; not only by customers but also by the European Union.
The Subaru team of Engineers, who we believe to be the most capable and knowledgeable in the business have designed the 2.5 litre unit with lighter weight and lower friction materials, giving higher power without sacrificing current emission and CO2 outputs.
The expectation therefore, is that provided the engine is operated within design criteria, using correct fuel grades (97 RON) and serviced within the manufacturer’s guidelines, the engine will prove its durability in keeping with Subaru traditions.
From a statistical viewpoint, to date 1,044 Subaru Impreza WRX STI 08/09 model year vehicles have been supplied into the UK market through our distribution network and only a small percentage of those have suffered any kind of engine failure. It was recognised very early that a modification to the fuel cut off parameters at maximum engine revolutions was required to reduce impact stresses to the piston land area, therefore an ECU map re-write was introduced on all production vehicles. Also vehicles held in UK stock were modified and a Service Campaign was issued to the UK Subaru network for vehicles already placed in the market.
From the information gathered through Fuji Heavy Industries’ Engineering Teams, our Regional Service Managers and warranty information, it has been determined that engine failures have occurred due to one, or a combination of the following points:
Engine rev limits being constantly exceeded due to over speeding
Vehicles being un-officially modified outside the design brief of the engine (unit is designed for around 300 BHP or 330 BHP in the case of the STI 330S, not more)
Track use (racing, time trials, rallying etc)
Incorrect maintenance procedures, causing engines to be run with insufficient or contaminated lubricating oils
Use of incorrect fuel grade (RON)
Unofficial “grey” Imports of undetermined specification, ie. not supplied by Subaru (UK)
As previously stated, our engines are designed to be operated within the design brief. Where owners have decided to unilaterally modify their vehicles, it can be expected that failures will almost certainly occur.
The view taken by our warranty staff has been to investigate thoroughly each case presented, and where evidence is in any way inconclusive, we have always covered those units under the terms of the new vehicle warranty.
As customers should rightly expect, the engine will rev freely throughout its complete range, without fault, as long as the points above are observed.
You may be aware of a recent joint venture between Subaru (UK) and Cosworth in the development of the Impreza CS400 producing 400 BHP and 375 ft/lbs of torque. This engine has been entirely re-configured from the bottom up to ensure reliability at these power and torque outputs. The high degree of testing and engineering expertise employed by both Subaru (UK) and Cosworth on this project serves to highlight our belief that simply adding performance componentry without an exhaustive development programme will undoubtedly compromise reliability – as other performance tuners have found to their cost.
To benchmark the project, a standard WRX STI engine unit was run on a Dynamometer for 50 hours non-stop at varying power and speed settings to replicate the most extreme usage and to highlight any areas of concern; needless to say, no problems became evident despite being operated under these intense conditions. Cosworth Technical Director, Bruce Wood, confirmed the WRX STI OE specification unit passed Coworth’s test regime.
“We were encouraged that the standard STI engine passed our 50 hour continuous test, which we consider to be rigorous, as this indicated that the starting point for the CS400 programme was suitably robust.”
Our views are shared by the international motor service community and to present an independent engineering statement from an internationally recognised motor service organisation, MSI Motor Service International GmbH (www.ms-motor-service.com) which clearly states the following regarding piston failure:
“Material faults are not the reason for ring land fractures, even though they are often the suspected cause. This type of fracture always results from overstressing the material.” (Piston Damages – Recognising and Rectifying, section 3.4.4)
Our stance is clear and consistent on these issues; where customers are prepared to modify and/or operate their vehicles outside the design parameters, this will invalidate our warranty agreement because it can be expected that failures will occur through no fault of Fuji Heavy Industries or Subaru (UK) in regard to faulty manufacture or improper design, always remembering that the 08/09 STI is designed to be completely reliable at around 300 BHP (and 330 BHP for the STI 330S) but not at 350, 380 or even 400 BHP - power levels at which some owners claim to be running their vehicles. Where any doubt exists, the warranty available through Subaru (UK) is there to support any engine and vehicle defect reported.
Should any customer/owner require assistance with engine or indeed any vehicle related issue, the initial approach would be to discuss the problem with your selling/servicing dealer who will involve the services of Subaru (UK) if required. Customer satisfaction is at the heart of everything we do and it is absolutely not in Subaru (UK)’s interest, either financially or reputationally, to decline fair and proper warranty claims. We will not do it.
Delivery of excellent customer support is our goal, and our award-winning performance in this area over a period of more than 30 years is no coincidence.
We would like to thank you for choosing Subaru and ensure you of our endeavour to make your ownership experience a good one.
Subaru (UK)
8 October 2010
Due to the fact that there has been quite a large amount of inaccurate and misleading comment on a number of these sites, we felt it appropriate from an engineering and technical perspective to outline the design brief of the 2.5 litre Subaru Boxer engine fitted to 2008/2009 Impreza WRX/STI and further explain some facts that will help your understanding.
Subaru is an environmentally conscious company that seeks to build products that are thoroughly engineered for the purpose for which they are intended with regard to delivering class leading performance whilst still meeting the very stringent environmental control standards demanded from modern day vehicles; not only by customers but also by the European Union.
The Subaru team of Engineers, who we believe to be the most capable and knowledgeable in the business have designed the 2.5 litre unit with lighter weight and lower friction materials, giving higher power without sacrificing current emission and CO2 outputs.
The expectation therefore, is that provided the engine is operated within design criteria, using correct fuel grades (97 RON) and serviced within the manufacturer’s guidelines, the engine will prove its durability in keeping with Subaru traditions.
From a statistical viewpoint, to date 1,044 Subaru Impreza WRX STI 08/09 model year vehicles have been supplied into the UK market through our distribution network and only a small percentage of those have suffered any kind of engine failure. It was recognised very early that a modification to the fuel cut off parameters at maximum engine revolutions was required to reduce impact stresses to the piston land area, therefore an ECU map re-write was introduced on all production vehicles. Also vehicles held in UK stock were modified and a Service Campaign was issued to the UK Subaru network for vehicles already placed in the market.
From the information gathered through Fuji Heavy Industries’ Engineering Teams, our Regional Service Managers and warranty information, it has been determined that engine failures have occurred due to one, or a combination of the following points:
Engine rev limits being constantly exceeded due to over speeding
Vehicles being un-officially modified outside the design brief of the engine (unit is designed for around 300 BHP or 330 BHP in the case of the STI 330S, not more)
Track use (racing, time trials, rallying etc)
Incorrect maintenance procedures, causing engines to be run with insufficient or contaminated lubricating oils
Use of incorrect fuel grade (RON)
Unofficial “grey” Imports of undetermined specification, ie. not supplied by Subaru (UK)
As previously stated, our engines are designed to be operated within the design brief. Where owners have decided to unilaterally modify their vehicles, it can be expected that failures will almost certainly occur.
The view taken by our warranty staff has been to investigate thoroughly each case presented, and where evidence is in any way inconclusive, we have always covered those units under the terms of the new vehicle warranty.
As customers should rightly expect, the engine will rev freely throughout its complete range, without fault, as long as the points above are observed.
You may be aware of a recent joint venture between Subaru (UK) and Cosworth in the development of the Impreza CS400 producing 400 BHP and 375 ft/lbs of torque. This engine has been entirely re-configured from the bottom up to ensure reliability at these power and torque outputs. The high degree of testing and engineering expertise employed by both Subaru (UK) and Cosworth on this project serves to highlight our belief that simply adding performance componentry without an exhaustive development programme will undoubtedly compromise reliability – as other performance tuners have found to their cost.
To benchmark the project, a standard WRX STI engine unit was run on a Dynamometer for 50 hours non-stop at varying power and speed settings to replicate the most extreme usage and to highlight any areas of concern; needless to say, no problems became evident despite being operated under these intense conditions. Cosworth Technical Director, Bruce Wood, confirmed the WRX STI OE specification unit passed Coworth’s test regime.
“We were encouraged that the standard STI engine passed our 50 hour continuous test, which we consider to be rigorous, as this indicated that the starting point for the CS400 programme was suitably robust.”
Our views are shared by the international motor service community and to present an independent engineering statement from an internationally recognised motor service organisation, MSI Motor Service International GmbH (www.ms-motor-service.com) which clearly states the following regarding piston failure:
“Material faults are not the reason for ring land fractures, even though they are often the suspected cause. This type of fracture always results from overstressing the material.” (Piston Damages – Recognising and Rectifying, section 3.4.4)
Our stance is clear and consistent on these issues; where customers are prepared to modify and/or operate their vehicles outside the design parameters, this will invalidate our warranty agreement because it can be expected that failures will occur through no fault of Fuji Heavy Industries or Subaru (UK) in regard to faulty manufacture or improper design, always remembering that the 08/09 STI is designed to be completely reliable at around 300 BHP (and 330 BHP for the STI 330S) but not at 350, 380 or even 400 BHP - power levels at which some owners claim to be running their vehicles. Where any doubt exists, the warranty available through Subaru (UK) is there to support any engine and vehicle defect reported.
Should any customer/owner require assistance with engine or indeed any vehicle related issue, the initial approach would be to discuss the problem with your selling/servicing dealer who will involve the services of Subaru (UK) if required. Customer satisfaction is at the heart of everything we do and it is absolutely not in Subaru (UK)’s interest, either financially or reputationally, to decline fair and proper warranty claims. We will not do it.
Delivery of excellent customer support is our goal, and our award-winning performance in this area over a period of more than 30 years is no coincidence.
We would like to thank you for choosing Subaru and ensure you of our endeavour to make your ownership experience a good one.
Subaru (UK)
8 October 2010
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From: England somewhere
makes interesting reading especially the over revving, wrong fuel, not carrying out proper services , and no mention of the 2.5 haweyes that have had problems headgaskets,bottom ends......... 
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From: Disco, Disco!
Funny they mention the environment and co2 and forgetting the processes involved in creating Ally pistons over forged ones.
More about the cost of everything over the value.
I wonder how many owners of these cars are going to see a good return when time comes to sell given that the cars faults are common knowledge and not a cheap fix for anyone.
Subaru have a damaged reputation in the UK and with good reason and shame on them!
More about the cost of everything over the value.
I wonder how many owners of these cars are going to see a good return when time comes to sell given that the cars faults are common knowledge and not a cheap fix for anyone.
Subaru have a damaged reputation in the UK and with good reason and shame on them!
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,884
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"Our stance is clear and consistent on these issues; where customers are prepared to modify and/or operate their vehicles outside the design parameters, this will invalidate our warranty agreement because it can be expected that failures will occur through no fault of Fuji Heavy Industries or Subaru (UK) in regard to faulty manufacture or improper design, always remembering that the 08/09 STI is designed to be completely reliable at around 300 BHP (and 330 BHP for the STI 330S) but not at 350, 380 or even 400 BHP - power levels at which some owners claim to be running their vehicles. Where any doubt exists, the warranty available through Subaru (UK) is there to support any engine and vehicle defect reported."
From what I have read it is mostly standard and ppp'd cars which have gone pop otherwise they wouldn't have had all the rebuilds under warranty. Smells like corporate bull. Disappointing.
From what I have read it is mostly standard and ppp'd cars which have gone pop otherwise they wouldn't have had all the rebuilds under warranty. Smells like corporate bull. Disappointing.
Scooby Regular
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From: Telford
I think the percentages may be lower than what is actually happening. Those knowingly have upgraded parts (except pistons) to gain those extra horses would have had failures and repaired it themselves knowing that they sit outside the warranty safezone.
I havent even had a failure and Ive sent my hatch in for forged pistons. Thats 2k Id rather have not spent....
I havent even had a failure and Ive sent my hatch in for forged pistons. Thats 2k Id rather have not spent....
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Scooby Regular
Joined: Feb 2010
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From: Telford
I think the percentages may be lower than what is actually happening. Those knowingly have upgraded parts (except pistons) to gain those extra horses would have had failures and repaired it themselves knowing that they sit outside the warranty safezone.
I havent even had a failure and Ive sent my hatch in for forged pistons. Thats 2k Id rather have not spent....
I havent even had a failure and Ive sent my hatch in for forged pistons. Thats 2k Id rather have not spent....
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From: Slowly rebuilding the kit of bits into a car...
Is that whinny noise the synchros on an early six speed or a corporate excuse ?
I can't quite tell over the knocking noise coming from the rear struts...
dunx
I can't quite tell over the knocking noise coming from the rear struts...
dunx
I am very pleased that Subaru have come out of hiding and released a statement. I fully accept that if we modify the engine we take our chances.
In saying that, is a 7% rate of failure something we should accept as good enough on a non modified car ??
My answer will always be no !!
Would i buy the new model no !!
Am i convinced by Subaru's explanation no !!
In saying that, is a 7% rate of failure something we should accept as good enough on a non modified car ??
My answer will always be no !!
Would i buy the new model no !!
Am i convinced by Subaru's explanation no !!
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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 32,398
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From: Old Codgers Home
"As previously stated, our engines are designed to be operated within the design brief. Where owners have decided to unilaterally modify their vehicles, it can be expected that failures will almost certainly occur"
What have I been saying for a Decade now????
**** about with your car and expect it to bite your bum .... so stop your sobbing ...
Nice one Subaru!
What have I been saying for a Decade now????
**** about with your car and expect it to bite your bum .... so stop your sobbing ...
Nice one Subaru!
They are just getting more and moe arrogant as time passes. The majority of failures I have read about have been on standard or PPP cars. Some have failed more than once so are we really to beliive that after the first failure the owners are ragging the **** out of them.
£28K on an STI and they tell you to drive it like Miss Daisy.
Bye bye Subaru UK, sooner the better IMO
£28K on an STI and they tell you to drive it like Miss Daisy.
Bye bye Subaru UK, sooner the better IMO
Subaru dont like it up them,nearly 100 engines failed in 1 year so they say,what about all those that have failed previously,should have built engines with dropped forged pistons few extra £ maybe but reliable.They should have stuck with JDM v7 engine altered externals to get emissions down!
Funny they mention the environment and co2 and forgetting the processes involved in creating Ally pistons over forged ones.
More about the cost of everything over the value.
I wonder how many owners of these cars are going to see a good return when time comes to sell given that the cars faults are common knowledge and not a cheap fix for anyone.
Subaru have a damaged reputation in the UK and with good reason and shame on them!
More about the cost of everything over the value.
I wonder how many owners of these cars are going to see a good return when time comes to sell given that the cars faults are common knowledge and not a cheap fix for anyone.
Subaru have a damaged reputation in the UK and with good reason and shame on them!
Scooby Regular
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,491
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"Our stance is clear and consistent on these issues; where customers are prepared to modify and/or operate their vehicles outside the design parameters, this will invalidate our warranty agreement because it can be expected that failures will occur through no fault of Fuji Heavy Industries or Subaru (UK) in regard to faulty manufacture or improper design, always remembering that the 08/09 STI is designed to be completely reliable at around 300 BHP (and 330 BHP for the STI 330S) but not at 350, 380 or even 400 BHP - power levels at which some owners claim to be running their vehicles. Where any doubt exists, the warranty available through Subaru (UK) is there to support any engine and vehicle defect reported."
From what I have read it is mostly standard and ppp'd cars which have gone pop otherwise they wouldn't have had all the rebuilds under warranty. Smells like corporate bull. Disappointing.
From what I have read it is mostly standard and ppp'd cars which have gone pop otherwise they wouldn't have had all the rebuilds under warranty. Smells like corporate bull. Disappointing.
Can anyone name any production road car or motorcycle that comes from the factory running at performance levels that are at the highest level the engine can handle reliably? This must be a first as production tolerances will undoubtedly result in a significant number of vehicle failures if this were the case.
Let's face it, all production cars/motorcycles are built with a large safety margin to accomodate things such as different driver behaviour, varying enviromental factors (must work in Alaska and Saudi), fuel quality, poor servicing etc.
So here we have Subaru, who have been happy for years to sell most of their Imprezas off the back of a vibrant modifying/tuning scene knowing that only a minority will remain in standard condition, now trying to blame the engine failures on the 2.5 engines on owners who have taken liberties and altered their vehicles from OE spec.
Do me a favour, we're not talking about the Nissan Micra here (although I expect that you could comfortably increase the power of the Micra by 50% and run reliably on standard internals), if the Impreza is now a car that you daren't de-cat without first shelling out on a fully forged motor then there aren't going to be any more new Imprezas on the road.
Utter corporate garbage.
Subaru need to accept they've made a mistake and stop digging.
Kevin
"As previously stated, our engines are designed to be operated within the design brief. Where owners have decided to unilaterally modify their vehicles, it can be expected that failures will almost certainly occur"
What have I been saying for a Decade now????
**** about with your car and expect it to bite your bum .... so stop your sobbing ...
Nice one Subaru!
What have I been saying for a Decade now????
**** about with your car and expect it to bite your bum .... so stop your sobbing ...
Nice one Subaru!
It's down to the Japanese Market not standing for substandard engineering, I would never buy another non JDM Subaru again.
Scooby Regular
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 477
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Yes....
Subaru UK ... what a load of absolute bo***ks ! 
To think that anyone believes such 'utter crap' is beyond belief
7% official figures reads double 'unofficial' figures I reckon....
I guess they know that too, but will never admit it.
A
To think that anyone believes such 'utter crap' is beyond belief
7% official figures reads double 'unofficial' figures I reckon....
I guess they know that too, but will never admit it.
A
the rest was yanks hitting the gas instead of the brakes, they found out from the ecus and that was from the u s dept not from toyota.
back to topic - what a load of bollocks, you over engineer everything if you want it to last, you would think the newer cars would be stronger than the older ones cos they would learn about possible problems with certain designs look at th evo 10 for instance, i know someone who was running 480hp on standard engine and box.
So where did the 7% figure come from? I can only see 1044 sales?
As for this quote, is it from a specific report on Subaru failures, or just a quote from a generic report?
""Our views are shared by the international motor service community and to present an independent engineering statement from an internationally recognised motor service organisation, MSI Motor Service International GmbH (www.ms-motor-service.com) which clearly states the following regarding piston failure:
“Material faults are not the reason for ring land fractures, even though they are often the suspected cause. This type of fracture always results from overstressing the material.” (Piston Damages – Recognising and Rectifying, section 3.4.4)""
If its a specific report to IM then perhaps they would like to release any analysis by MSI on the design of the piston crown supports as a cause for the over-stressing?
If its a generic report then does anyone have access to it?
It would be interesting to following on their investigations into the reasons for over-stressing.
IM are keen to stress that modifications are to blame, without identifying how many warranty claims are on standard cars.
Its odd that they are perfectly happy to have a 3 yr/60k warranty on 330 hp, but raise it to 350 hp and suddenly the car WILL have a failure.
That suggests 330 hp is right on the limit of the design performance for the engine.
As for this quote, is it from a specific report on Subaru failures, or just a quote from a generic report?
""Our views are shared by the international motor service community and to present an independent engineering statement from an internationally recognised motor service organisation, MSI Motor Service International GmbH (www.ms-motor-service.com) which clearly states the following regarding piston failure:
“Material faults are not the reason for ring land fractures, even though they are often the suspected cause. This type of fracture always results from overstressing the material.” (Piston Damages – Recognising and Rectifying, section 3.4.4)""
If its a specific report to IM then perhaps they would like to release any analysis by MSI on the design of the piston crown supports as a cause for the over-stressing?
If its a generic report then does anyone have access to it?
It would be interesting to following on their investigations into the reasons for over-stressing.
IM are keen to stress that modifications are to blame, without identifying how many warranty claims are on standard cars.
Its odd that they are perfectly happy to have a 3 yr/60k warranty on 330 hp, but raise it to 350 hp and suddenly the car WILL have a failure.
That suggests 330 hp is right on the limit of the design performance for the engine.
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 11,479
Likes: 27
From: MY99UK-MY02STi-MY99Type R-MY06 T20-MY11 340R-MY05 TYPE25
Anthing that goes wrong Blame the owners
Everyone was blaming 2002STi owners that "MODs" were to Blame for Engine failures. "Boost spikes" from fitting a silencer
I had my PPP'd Car taken to Prodrive to get it ECU replaced as a check engine light fault with the piggyback chip. My mate was to take his Car aswell but he went 2 weeks later. His Car was completely standard, Serviced and Fueled as Prodrives recommendation
At warwick, on the high speed run with two Prodrive engineers in his Car the Engine blew up. Prodrive had the engine rebuilt for him. This was the reason for the PPP fuel pump upgrade.
Tony
Everyone was blaming 2002STi owners that "MODs" were to Blame for Engine failures. "Boost spikes" from fitting a silencer
I had my PPP'd Car taken to Prodrive to get it ECU replaced as a check engine light fault with the piggyback chip. My mate was to take his Car aswell but he went 2 weeks later. His Car was completely standard, Serviced and Fueled as Prodrives recommendation
At warwick, on the high speed run with two Prodrive engineers in his Car the Engine blew up. Prodrive had the engine rebuilt for him. This was the reason for the PPP fuel pump upgrade.
Tony
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 11,479
Likes: 27
From: MY99UK-MY02STi-MY99Type R-MY06 T20-MY11 340R-MY05 TYPE25
Thats why there is only a small 7% showing because they dismiss the others as
"Incorrect maintenance procedures, causing engines to be run with insufficient or contaminated lubricating oils"
because the engine "Drank" the Oil !!!!!
"Where owners have decided to unilaterally modify their vehicles"
Cop out
"Incorrect maintenance procedures, causing engines to be run with insufficient or contaminated lubricating oils"
because the engine "Drank" the Oil !!!!!
"Where owners have decided to unilaterally modify their vehicles"
Cop out
This figure quoted to me by I.M's Managing Director this week. I have extracts of the MSI report and i cannot see anything to suggest it is vehicle specific. I believe it is just a generic document.
Last edited by mickp; Oct 9, 2010 at 10:31 AM.