The Zohan

Hi there,

I have checked FS and cannot see a sticky re buying and selling good practice - if there is one then i am blind and ignore this.

If not how about one, this isn't meant to make IB or SN liable but more a proactive knowledge base of scams and how to avoid them, this could/will in turn also cut down on people being ripped off and scammers think twice.

List the scams, including the overpayment scam and the Pay Pal loophole of paying as a gift with no recourse for the person paying, etc.

Let additions be made as new scams surface

It is really 'buyer beware' but we can also help those who are not so aware of what to look for or less scam savvy.


Your thoughts

timmyajmy93wrx

iTrader: (27)

Great idea Paul

Just don't pay via 'Gift' on paypal - as i have just learned

jura11

iTrader: (7)

If you really want something buy why don't travel and buy with cash,i never trust PP or eBay,these sites are full of scammers(i learn on my faults,when i brought mobile and after 2 week mobile been banned).
Pay via PP its sometimes good idea,but at most cases its only horendous experience,which cost money and lots of energy.If you pay via Gift,you are not protected,but if you are pay aka normal transaction you are protected,but if this guy(seller)just create PP account for just one reason make scamm,thats the problem,because create PP account its simple and easy and you don't need ID or whatsoever....
Everybody learn on own faults(sometimes i pay via PP,but to trusted people aka M44GY@RuislypTyres,Neil@Slowboy Racing).Sorry guys for my english,but this is my thoughts.

Myles

iTrader: (40)

There is a thread on NASIOC called Scammer Central or words to that effect, seems to work well.

Myles

iTrader: (40)

Oh, and to echo Jura above, go in person and see the part before you pay, with cash.

L.J.F

iTrader: (31)

whats the overpayment scam?

Marx Mcrae

iTrader: (4)

should also have a list of known scammers and if possible all there users names for ebay and other forums that they use!

99greenwagon

iTrader: (39)

yes but you do need a valid landline telephone number,paypal is good and safe and you are protectd well,but not as gift payment.

timmyajmy93wrx

iTrader: (27)

totally agree, should have a list of people to stay away from & have it as a sticky in the wanted & for sale sections

The Zohan

http://netcred.co.uk/security/overpa...ment-scam.html

variations on the above, often used to pay for cars, vans, etc.

fivetide

iTrader: (1)

Had this idea myself yesterday. At least that way people can't say they didn't have the chance to be warned even if they are a bit trusting/have a common sense fail.

5t.

phil739

iTrader: (30)

i say always collect if its alot or your concerned

sold a few bits on here and even as a seller i try and get the buyer to collect

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

Lets not forget that we do already have an iTrader Feedback system to help spot reliable sellers to scammers.

The Zohan

I have been on here for 10 years, not sold anything since the system was introduced, would that make me more trustworthy, i guess so but who knows as my score is zero.

This is more about spotting the scammers and their tricks and scams and should compliment the traders score system

CAT2

iTrader: (3)

i-trader is fine if people bother to use it, which lots don't. I got ripped off by an SNer 18 months or so ago (£100) and I've been much more careful since, but I'm shocked at how many members (usually noobs obviously) are getting ripped off now. I think the OPs idea is a good one as it could help to stop this, most don't seem to know about a scam until it's been performed on them.

Mind you, I've just been through 2 weeks of worry after blowing £800 on brakes via ebay - did get in touch with the guy, who initially appeared not to be able to communicate properley (despite 100+ all positive feedback), which got me worried, but he turned out to be really helpful and it was RM who messed up. Got my brakes yesterday and breathed again.....

Let's be careful out there (and use a bit of common).......

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Well there is, kind of : https://www.scoobynet.com/private-fo...t-members.html

I agree though, as it does need to be updated with more info about scammers/fraudsters and made more noticable. And maybe amend into a subsection or link it in the main forum rules.

The problem with stickies is we tend to get so many that the place gets littered with them, and people end up ignoring it. Prime example is we still get people who don't realise they need to pay to post in the sales sections, even though they are established users.

I mean as an example of issues that need to be highlighted; some less than honest users are using the private mail (PM) system to trade. Any users conducting a trade using the PM system without taking their own extensive safegaurds (payment in person etc.) are allowing themselves to be put in a very vulnerable position.

Just really need to get some peeps together to pen it and put it all together into something thats useful.

I too am sick and tired of people getting ripped off. OK maybe I'm more savvy to these kinds of things, but we really need to make people more aware that there are load of liars, cheaters, scammers, fraudsters and bedroom traders that use the internet as means to gain a dishonest income. Scoobynet is most certainly not immune to it in any shape or form.

I can't stress this enough.

Steve Whitehorn

iTrader: (13)

In my experience
The wanted section is the most dangerous place to post.
As scammers definately lurk there.

Pauls Idea is a good one, a big sticky perhaps at the top of Private for sale and Wanted sections with the dos and donts and a blacklist of user names.

Steve Whitehorn

iTrader: (13)

OK to get the ball rolling - Here is a start point below
Perhaps others on here can copy it and hone it untill we have something that is about right
More needs adding to the last payment section perhaps
Steve

__________________________________________________ _________

STICKY - ADVICE FOR NOT BEING SCAMMED WHEN BUYING FROM SNET FORUMS

Firstly most buyers and sellers on here are guenuine. However scammers are present sometimes goods are paid for and they dont turn up or when they do they are not as described as in faulty.

Here are some tips to avoid being scammed

THE MEMBER - Who are you dealing with?

1. How long has the member been a member of the site?
Obviously New members have to start somewhere so dont discount them but trading with established members lessens your chance of being scammed.
2. What post count have they? A larger post count often dictates a genuine interest in Subarus?
3. Have they a decent itrader rating?
4. Do they readily hand out contact details and information or just a mobile number that never seems to be answered?

THE ITEM - Does the description ring true?

1. Description. Is it of a decent length? is it full of detail? Are there photographs? If a for sale item has had time and thought put into the listing then it is more likely to be genuine.
2. Research what you are buying. Knowing the value and the ins and outs of a part and what it does helps you to spot bullsh_t when a buyer replies. If a part is way under priced this may also hint at a scam, find out the actual used value of what you buying.

PAYMENT/COLLECTION/DELIVERY - Some ways are safer that others!

1. If possible collect in person
2. If you pay through PayPal making a payment as a gift means that you cant not gain a return of funds via Paypal.
3. If something is posted get a tracking number and the details of the company being used to post the item.

Use the itrader rating system it is there to help and protect all the honest memebers of this communbity.
__________________________________________________ ____________

The Zohan

bump!

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

They have an 'unreliable' and 'scammer' list on the 205 forum. But saying that to join the forum in the first place takes some doing. This does deter the *********, trolls and scammers some what. The end product is a forum with a real quality membership about it and a very safe for sale/wanted section to boot.

I think part of the problem is some Scoobs are so cheap now, the chavvy element are getting hold of them more and more. These are the types who are more likely to scam or be dishonest in transactions. If a product is being picked up by an increasingly more undesirable type of person, then the chances of dishonest trade shoots up imho.

JdcTypeR

iTrader: (19)

Cannot there be like a middleman as such who can hold the payment until goods are received? Obviously it will probably a bit more involved than that ie proof of delivery etc.
Just an idea.

BIG FUD

iTrader: (84)

Ive been thinking of offering this service on here but there is loads involved.So its just floating in my head at the minute.

Send me the money then when everyone is happy i then re send it to the seller.But there is many many complications involved,Could end up being the death of me.

JdcTypeR

iTrader: (19)

Thats the thing, it sounds simple but a big responsibility.
Would Scoobynet themselves maybe get involved in something like this?

The Zohan

Why exactly, what responsibility?

By posting up a warning a how to/how not to you do not make yourself liable or responsible for any scams or fraud.

Surely the 'responsibility' is to take a proactive approach towards this issue It is scoobynet's very own for sale section and surely it would make sense

I would be more concerned that by charging to use the service you are more likely taking some responsibility/liability surely?

JdcTypeR

iTrader: (19)

Fair enough
But what i was saying was if someone like me for example( i'm not saying thats what i was getting at)was to do it i would not be able to commit enough time to do it and would need a more professional approach.
If you know what i mean?

Lisawrx

iTrader: (1)

https://www.scoobynet.com/scoobynet-...-scammers.html

Here is another thread where ideas are welcomed and tie in with this one to a point.

I too support this idea, if we can make up a good, comprehensive guide to help both buyers and sellers. I pick up on something Ali said which is, I feel a subsection would be best. As he says, stickies are ignored. If, once a good guide was formulated, we could set up a new section that would be much more 'in your face'. Hopefully encouraging members to take a look and be a bit more armed against scams and a bit more careful.

What could also be incorporated into such a section are any 'scammed/ripped off' threads that may come up. That way, an easy look would flag up problem members (we are doing our best, but some could always pop up).

What I will stress is, sometimes people think they have been scammed and naturally become alarmed/angry/upset and therefore post up about it but it can turn out to not be the case. Sometimes things that appear that way are genuine misunderstandings or lack of communication which end up resolved. Also sometimes things turn out not to be as they first appeared. If a section like this was created, for it's absolute success, it relies on the members concerned giving a final outcome. For example, if an assumed scam turns out to be resloved and the 'victim' is either reimbursed or goods turn up, then that needs to be posted along with some amount of details of the problems along the way (without too much description if a private issue). That whole element relies on people updating, as it's not fair for someone to have a black mark against them if they aren't in fact a scammer.

EH52WRX

iTrader: (16)

Also name & shame. Public flogging. I have plenty of old tatties, spuds, what you want to call them, i have loads. Its about time people on here stood up for them selves.

Richard.

Will

Like I said in Harvey's thread:


I'd put the for sale/wanted area private, just like Fight Club and the Adult Forum and allow it for paying members. That way you keep scammers away from seeing threads and PM'ing the seller.

harvey

iTrader: (48)

I fully support your initiative Paul and I was unaware of your thread when I started mine. I can see the pit falls and problems to Scoobynet in running such a section and right now I cannot think of an easy system that can be operated comprehensively.
Making it only possible for vendors to be full members is a step in the right direction because as Lisa already pointed out, there is the beginning of a paper trail where the vendor has to register and make a payment.
I havn't yet had a chance to look at NASIOC but will do so. If the Americans can operate something satisfactory, bearing in mind their culture for suing each other, then there is no reason why Scoobynet can't do the same so I will come back later when I have considered it more.
What is for sure is there are too many scammers on Scoobynet and they are unfortunately feeding off a number of naive Subaru owners. Even the wary can be taken in. The situation is quite complex because while we have someone prepared to sell the same engine several times over which was done quite deliberately from the outset, we might also have someone genuinely intending to sell something else, often because they need the money and then as circumstances change during the timeframe of the deal, decide to pocket the money and not send the goods.
As regards deliberate scams or serial scammers or these with bad history I think it is quite simple. Block their IP addresses. I know the software allows for this and the amusing consequence is that if the scammer has been using other people's computers they are also blocked. This actually happend with our TTS website and caused some mirth. It certainly showed who were hob nobbing with each other. But I digress.
It could be a condition of a sale that nothing be sent by Paypal as a gift and in advance of any sale the vendor has to provide the purchaser with their name, address, including post code and landline phone number. The purchaser can then phone that land line telephone number to verify the vendors details. At that point any vendor deliberately being deceitful is open to prosecution if they take money by deception and when scammers realise this they will find it easier to migrate to less tightly managed sites.
This will help but won't eradicate the practice in total but it also helps where the deal has gone sour during the time period of the transaction.
PS: No Paypals to mates accounts etc for obvious reasons.
No Paypals as a gift.
Beyond a certain amount consider bank transfer as opposed to Paypal because if the Paypal account is emptied of the money you have just send you are on a sticky wicket with Paypal if you operate in credit or if the deficit is not fully supported by your credit card company.
A further advantage is that with a bank transfer you have to have the full name of the receipients bank account so you are setting up a paper trail.

harvey

iTrader: (48)

Add to the list above, all items sent by post either Recorded or Special Delivery.
All items sent by Carrier/courier with a tracking number.
Make it a condition of selling on Scoobynet that all dispatched items can be tracked via the Royal Mail receipt or courier manifest number. At a stroke you have removed a major area open to dishonesty with claims that items have been sent which have not and there is a paper trail to trace missing items, receipt signature etc. This takes care of the lost in the post business and any vendor unable to provide tracking detals will give a full refund to the buyer and if this is not done expediently IP address removed.