600 on a 2.0l CDB?
30 July 2010, 04:15 PM
#1
600 on a 2.0l CDB?
Hi people
Im in two minds of either buying a well sorted Evo 8 or doing a big build on a classic. If i do go ahead with the classic then im planning on the forged 2.0l CDB route. If i can run 550-600 on that engine then i would be happy to do so?
My main question is will the 2.0l support the above figures with standard STi V3 heads? I understand that spool up will not be the best & lag will play its part.
Also how would the 2.0l compare against the 2.1l? Im assuming there is not a huge huge difference between the two other than early spool, less lag & more torque on the 2.1?
Finally the cost of building a 2.1 works out to be way much more than building a 2.0l. The stroker is costing £1500 plus £400 for the rear thrust conversion, whereas the 2.0l is costing me far less including parts & labour. Therefore if there is not a huge difference i rather go with a 2.0l.
I look forward to everyones opinions.
Kas
Im in two minds of either buying a well sorted Evo 8 or doing a big build on a classic. If i do go ahead with the classic then im planning on the forged 2.0l CDB route. If i can run 550-600 on that engine then i would be happy to do so?
My main question is will the 2.0l support the above figures with standard STi V3 heads? I understand that spool up will not be the best & lag will play its part.
Also how would the 2.0l compare against the 2.1l? Im assuming there is not a huge huge difference between the two other than early spool, less lag & more torque on the 2.1?
Finally the cost of building a 2.1 works out to be way much more than building a 2.0l. The stroker is costing £1500 plus £400 for the rear thrust conversion, whereas the 2.0l is costing me far less including parts & labour. Therefore if there is not a huge difference i rather go with a 2.0l.
I look forward to everyones opinions.
Kas
Last edited by KAS35RSTI; 30 July 2010 at 04:18 PM.
30 July 2010, 04:33 PM
#2
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rear thrust conversion you can get it done cheaper engine tuner and i think mark at lateral can both do them for you for less than 400 quid.
your heads will need some work to make them flow better, valves and headwork and a few other bits might need to be done. as im sure sti heads cant flow to 600 bhp.
evo STOP IT you will get spanked on the strip by some little classic running less power, evos do look nice but they just dont cut it. even handeling wise look at time attack or even on the strip i cant remember the last time an evo won Time attack or a drag series.
2.1 is the way to go everyone is doing it have a look at the project section check out omers 2.1 build and im sure he might share costing ect with you.
why not buy a newage atleast you get a 6 speed box and avcs heads that will help further with spool.
your heads will need some work to make them flow better, valves and headwork and a few other bits might need to be done. as im sure sti heads cant flow to 600 bhp.
evo STOP IT you will get spanked on the strip by some little classic running less power, evos do look nice but they just dont cut it. even handeling wise look at time attack or even on the strip i cant remember the last time an evo won Time attack or a drag series.
2.1 is the way to go everyone is doing it have a look at the project section check out omers 2.1 build and im sure he might share costing ect with you.
why not buy a newage atleast you get a 6 speed box and avcs heads that will help further with spool.
30 July 2010, 04:43 PM
#3
Hi Mus,
I've spoken to a few people & i have been told that the STi 3 heads are ok upto 600 but then again its all just unconfirmed. If the heads are good for even 550 i probably would settle with that. I have spoken to Omar & boy he is spending the monies!!
If there is not a huge difference between the two i dont see the point of going through all that hassle only for 100cc.
PS: How did you change your username?
I've spoken to a few people & i have been told that the STi 3 heads are ok upto 600 but then again its all just unconfirmed. If the heads are good for even 550 i probably would settle with that. I have spoken to Omar & boy he is spending the monies!!
If there is not a huge difference between the two i dont see the point of going through all that hassle only for 100cc.
PS: How did you change your username?
30 July 2010, 05:03 PM
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Evo is a better choice IMHO...
Start with one with a five speed box and mechanical rear LSD (rather than AYC), and all it needs in strengthening terms is a clutch and conrods to run 550 BHP, and turbo/cams/inlet/intercooler/exhaust/injectors/pump/reflash to get the air and fuel through.
2.0 Evo engine with MIVEC spools up a turbo of a given size much like a 2.5 in a Classic Scooby, but is so much tougher.
Start with one with a five speed box and mechanical rear LSD (rather than AYC), and all it needs in strengthening terms is a clutch and conrods to run 550 BHP, and turbo/cams/inlet/intercooler/exhaust/injectors/pump/reflash to get the air and fuel through.
2.0 Evo engine with MIVEC spools up a turbo of a given size much like a 2.5 in a Classic Scooby, but is so much tougher.
30 July 2010, 05:17 PM
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a 550 evo wont cut it against a classic running less power
aladdin
ali the mod is a legend lol
2.1 some funky fuel mix good mapping will net you some good spool
2liter is great but around 600 you will need to run lots of meth/e85, in the envoirment you will be using the car for which i wont discuss right now, few hundred rpm can make a diffrence as you already know.
aladdin
ali the mod is a legend lol
2.1 some funky fuel mix good mapping will net you some good spool
2liter is great but around 600 you will need to run lots of meth/e85, in the envoirment you will be using the car for which i wont discuss right now, few hundred rpm can make a diffrence as you already know.
30 July 2010, 05:23 PM
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scoob
i bought a fairly well known 2.1 forged highish power scoob and do indeed agree with the fact that its laggy compared to my s205 powered evo,but it is faster-it handles better too-but has had an absolute fortune spent getting it that way,and to cope with the power[sti 6 spd box-every suspension component,etc]
i reckon the cheaper car to do would be the evo,less lag too-go long rod,s205,geekmap and you have 500 plus bhp,loadsa rpm .
i bought the scoob ready done-i"ve done a few evos myself-ablet mostly evo 5
again it depends on your chosen mount...
i reckon the cheaper car to do would be the evo,less lag too-go long rod,s205,geekmap and you have 500 plus bhp,loadsa rpm .
i bought the scoob ready done-i"ve done a few evos myself-ablet mostly evo 5
again it depends on your chosen mount...
30 July 2010, 05:38 PM
#7
I love the Evo 8's however i dont want to go out & spend grands on a sorted 8 & in the end realise its not something i wanted performance wise. I have already had many classics & my last one being a Type R with 2.5/MD321T which was punchy but it did not meet my requirements performance wise. The cost is not a huge factor here but i would prefer to work with my budget.
Last edited by KAS35RSTI; 30 July 2010 at 05:39 PM.
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30 July 2010, 09:44 PM
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i bought a fairly well known 2.1 forged highish power scoob and do indeed agree with the fact that its laggy compared to my s205 powered evo,but it is faster-it handles better too-but has had an absolute fortune spent getting it that way,and to cope with the power[sti 6 spd box-every suspension component,etc]
i reckon the cheaper car to do would be the evo,less lag too-go long rod,s205,geekmap and you have 500 plus bhp,loadsa rpm .
i bought the scoob ready done-i"ve done a few evos myself-ablet mostly evo 5
again it depends on your chosen mount...
i reckon the cheaper car to do would be the evo,less lag too-go long rod,s205,geekmap and you have 500 plus bhp,loadsa rpm .
i bought the scoob ready done-i"ve done a few evos myself-ablet mostly evo 5
again it depends on your chosen mount...
30 July 2010, 09:54 PM
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There are some astonishing 30-130 times from Evos without extraordinary power levels, so I wouldn't dismiss them so lightly, yet the most powerful 4G63s are over 1400 BHP and do some incredible drag racing times.
30 July 2010, 10:30 PM
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Look on the MLR for 30-130 results and compare to Scoobies
The drag races didn't happen when you were watching so they didn't happen?
http://www.dragtimes.com/Mitsubishi-...ag-Racing.html
The top 5 cars are all the 8s.
The fastest DSM with the same 4G63 engine design is 6.9 at 198mph. Gotta love iron blocks.
Fastest Subaru is nearly 2 seconds slower.
One engine is a drag racing legend, the other isn't.
30 July 2010, 10:35 PM
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Only a fool would underestimate the 4G63. Incredible engine, anyone that knows one end of an engine from another knows it.
Buschur Racing was running 9s on a stock RS drivetrain, reliably.
How many Subarus run 9s on a stock drivetrain?
Buschur Racing was running 9s on a stock RS drivetrain, reliably.
How many Subarus run 9s on a stock drivetrain?
Last edited by john banks; 30 July 2010 at 10:38 PM.
30 July 2010, 10:45 PM
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UK drag racing is rubbish though. Only the R35 GTRs are remotely competitive with times from the US on similar spec because of the gearbox/launch control, but even then the very best times are by those with regular access to well prepped tracks and suitable weather - ie Florida in the autumn seems a great combination.
The right Evo drivetrain doesn't break on launch. Saying Evos routinely break on launch is like saying all Subaru gearboxes break with 300 lbft just because the GC8 5MT does.
The original poster given equal spend, equal engineering and driving skill will likely do far better with an Evo. He will have to remove the engine far less often because it will break less often, and when it does it can often be fixed with the engine in place. Ask me how I know, my Subaru engine was in and out like a tart's knickers, the Evo engine never came out. One did ring lands and headgaskets and liked to knock, the other just made power and held together.
One engine is a legend of strength, the other is a weak bit of alloy with wobbly bores that can be made fast with a lot of care and skill.
How many Subarus can run 500 BHP on an unopened engine and make 2 bar of boost at about 3000 RPM from 2 litres?
How many Subarus can make 400 BHP on an unopened engine with stock turbo and make full boost at 2400 RPM from 2 litres?
The right Evo drivetrain doesn't break on launch. Saying Evos routinely break on launch is like saying all Subaru gearboxes break with 300 lbft just because the GC8 5MT does.
The original poster given equal spend, equal engineering and driving skill will likely do far better with an Evo. He will have to remove the engine far less often because it will break less often, and when it does it can often be fixed with the engine in place. Ask me how I know, my Subaru engine was in and out like a tart's knickers, the Evo engine never came out. One did ring lands and headgaskets and liked to knock, the other just made power and held together.
One engine is a legend of strength, the other is a weak bit of alloy with wobbly bores that can be made fast with a lot of care and skill.
How many Subarus can run 500 BHP on an unopened engine and make 2 bar of boost at about 3000 RPM from 2 litres?
How many Subarus can make 400 BHP on an unopened engine with stock turbo and make full boost at 2400 RPM from 2 litres?
Last edited by john banks; 30 July 2010 at 10:49 PM.
30 July 2010, 10:59 PM
#19
UK drag racing is rubbish though. Only the R35 GTRs are remotely competitive with times from the US on similar spec because of the gearbox/launch control, but even then the very best times are by those with regular access to well prepped tracks and suitable weather - ie Florida in the autumn seems a great combination.
The right Evo drivetrain doesn't break on launch. Saying Evos routinely break on launch is like saying all Subaru gearboxes break with 300 lbft just because the GC8 5MT does.
The original poster given equal spend, equal engineering and driving skill will likely do far better with an Evo. He will have to remove the engine far less often because it will break less often, and when it does it can often be fixed with the engine in place. Ask me how I know, my Subaru engine was in and out like a tart's knickers, the Evo engine never came out. One did ring lands and headgaskets and liked to knock, the other just made power and held together.
One engine is a legend of strength, the other is a weak bit of alloy with wobbly bores that can be made fast with a lot of care and skill.
How many Subarus can run 500 BHP on an unopened engine and make 2 bar of boost at about 3000 RPM from 2 litres?
How many Subarus can make 400 BHP on an unopened engine with stock turbo and make full boost at 2400 RPM from 2 litres?
The right Evo drivetrain doesn't break on launch. Saying Evos routinely break on launch is like saying all Subaru gearboxes break with 300 lbft just because the GC8 5MT does.
The original poster given equal spend, equal engineering and driving skill will likely do far better with an Evo. He will have to remove the engine far less often because it will break less often, and when it does it can often be fixed with the engine in place. Ask me how I know, my Subaru engine was in and out like a tart's knickers, the Evo engine never came out. One did ring lands and headgaskets and liked to knock, the other just made power and held together.
One engine is a legend of strength, the other is a weak bit of alloy with wobbly bores that can be made fast with a lot of care and skill.
How many Subarus can run 500 BHP on an unopened engine and make 2 bar of boost at about 3000 RPM from 2 litres?
How many Subarus can make 400 BHP on an unopened engine with stock turbo and make full boost at 2400 RPM from 2 litres?
Last edited by KAS35RSTI; 30 July 2010 at 11:02 PM.
31 July 2010, 12:08 AM
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UK drag racing is rubbish though. Only the R35 GTRs are remotely competitive with times from the US on similar spec because of the gearbox/launch control, but even then the very best times are by those with regular access to well prepped tracks and suitable weather - ie Florida in the autumn seems a great combination.
The right Evo drivetrain doesn't break on launch. Saying Evos routinely break on launch is like saying all Subaru gearboxes break with 300 lbft just because the GC8 5MT does.
The original poster given equal spend, equal engineering and driving skill will likely do far better with an Evo. He will have to remove the engine far less often because it will break less often, and when it does it can often be fixed with the engine in place. Ask me how I know, my Subaru engine was in and out like a tart's knickers, the Evo engine never came out. One did ring lands and headgaskets and liked to knock, the other just made power and held together.
One engine is a legend of strength, the other is a weak bit of alloy with wobbly bores that can be made fast with a lot of care and skill.
How many Subarus can run 500 BHP on an unopened engine and make 2 bar of boost at about 3000 RPM from 2 litres?
How many Subarus can make 400 BHP on an unopened engine with stock turbo and make full boost at 2400 RPM from 2 litres?
The right Evo drivetrain doesn't break on launch. Saying Evos routinely break on launch is like saying all Subaru gearboxes break with 300 lbft just because the GC8 5MT does.
The original poster given equal spend, equal engineering and driving skill will likely do far better with an Evo. He will have to remove the engine far less often because it will break less often, and when it does it can often be fixed with the engine in place. Ask me how I know, my Subaru engine was in and out like a tart's knickers, the Evo engine never came out. One did ring lands and headgaskets and liked to knock, the other just made power and held together.
One engine is a legend of strength, the other is a weak bit of alloy with wobbly bores that can be made fast with a lot of care and skill.
How many Subarus can run 500 BHP on an unopened engine and make 2 bar of boost at about 3000 RPM from 2 litres?
How many Subarus can make 400 BHP on an unopened engine with stock turbo and make full boost at 2400 RPM from 2 litres?
I agree with the above however it's great making all the power but what does it all equate to? time attack was dominted by zen and rcm. rc developments could barely get a podium finish while Norris design was rebuilding his engines lol
on strip andy f got an 8 with a road car, zen, rcm and mark at lateral have all got in to the 9 second runs. now how many evo do you know can match the above.
the op will be using the car to race not to compare boost plots ect... to be honest I've looked at buying an evo like an evo 6rs but fornwhat I'll be using it for it just won't cut.
31 July 2010, 06:58 AM
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UK drag racing is rubbish though. Only the R35 GTRs are remotely competitive with times from the US on similar spec because of the gearbox/launch control, but even then the very best times are by those with regular access to well prepped tracks and suitable weather - ie Florida in the autumn seems a great combination.
The right Evo drivetrain doesn't break on launch. Saying Evos routinely break on launch is like saying all Subaru gearboxes break with 300 lbft just because the GC8 5MT does.
The original poster given equal spend, equal engineering and driving skill will likely do far better with an Evo. He will have to remove the engine far less often because it will break less often, and when it does it can often be fixed with the engine in place. Ask me how I know, my Subaru engine was in and out like a tart's knickers, the Evo engine never came out. One did ring lands and headgaskets and liked to knock, the other just made power and held together.
One engine is a legend of strength, the other is a weak bit of alloy with wobbly bores that can be made fast with a lot of care and skill.
How many Subarus can run 500 BHP on an unopened engine and make 2 bar of boost at about 3000 RPM from 2 litres?
How many Subarus can make 400 BHP on an unopened engine with stock turbo and make full boost at 2400 RPM from 2 litres?
The right Evo drivetrain doesn't break on launch. Saying Evos routinely break on launch is like saying all Subaru gearboxes break with 300 lbft just because the GC8 5MT does.
The original poster given equal spend, equal engineering and driving skill will likely do far better with an Evo. He will have to remove the engine far less often because it will break less often, and when it does it can often be fixed with the engine in place. Ask me how I know, my Subaru engine was in and out like a tart's knickers, the Evo engine never came out. One did ring lands and headgaskets and liked to knock, the other just made power and held together.
One engine is a legend of strength, the other is a weak bit of alloy with wobbly bores that can be made fast with a lot of care and skill.
How many Subarus can run 500 BHP on an unopened engine and make 2 bar of boost at about 3000 RPM from 2 litres?
How many Subarus can make 400 BHP on an unopened engine with stock turbo and make full boost at 2400 RPM from 2 litres?
