No it’s not April 1st
29 September 2000, 12:08 AM
#1
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Jason,
Hope you've got a good flame proof suit
Previous cars of mine include Astra GTE, Golf GTi, Cavalier GSi, 309 GTi(with stiff shocks). The 309 would go round corners as if on rails. The others handled reasonably.
However my MY93 WRX handling is in a completely different universe. Yes, it understeers, but the speed you are going when it starts understeering is much faster than anything else I've driven. With a heavy right foot, oversteer can be achieved also.
I'm not saying you're wrong, just that I'm suprised you are so disappointed with the handling.
Anyway, can you elaborate on what constitutes 'correctly' in terms of handling.
Jerome.
Hope you've got a good flame proof suit
Previous cars of mine include Astra GTE, Golf GTi, Cavalier GSi, 309 GTi(with stiff shocks). The 309 would go round corners as if on rails. The others handled reasonably.
However my MY93 WRX handling is in a completely different universe. Yes, it understeers, but the speed you are going when it starts understeering is much faster than anything else I've driven. With a heavy right foot, oversteer can be achieved also.
I'm not saying you're wrong, just that I'm suprised you are so disappointed with the handling.
Anyway, can you elaborate on what constitutes 'correctly' in terms of handling.
Jerome.
29 September 2000, 12:10 AM
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Quote:
"Ask yourself this question!
When was the last time you were out in your standard Impreza and came out of a corner doing 90 or a 100+, when the limit on that corner for a normal car is say 60. Be honest with yourself, and if you have never done it ask yourself why?"
Because that would be breaking the law.
And I'm a good boy
Rich
[This message has been edited by RichS (edited 29 September 2000).]
"Ask yourself this question!
When was the last time you were out in your standard Impreza and came out of a corner doing 90 or a 100+, when the limit on that corner for a normal car is say 60. Be honest with yourself, and if you have never done it ask yourself why?"
Because that would be breaking the law.
And I'm a good boy
Rich
[This message has been edited by RichS (edited 29 September 2000).]
29 September 2000, 12:20 AM
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Jason,
I own an STI5 and prior to that a MY98 UK Turbo and compared to two cars described in terms of handling as 'all time greats' by the motoring press, (205GTI and Porsche 968) I would say that both Imprezas are the equal of the 205 and streets ahead of the 968 on the road.
CW.
I own an STI5 and prior to that a MY98 UK Turbo and compared to two cars described in terms of handling as 'all time greats' by the motoring press, (205GTI and Porsche 968) I would say that both Imprezas are the equal of the 205 and streets ahead of the 968 on the road.
CW.
29 September 2000, 12:21 AM
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When deciding upon all these wonderful suspension changes you should ask yourself how you would like the car to handle.
My Prodrive setup with Anti-Lift kit had the back end snapping out all the time on the track. The instructor who drove the car loved it commenting that the Prodrive setup was best in his opinion for road/occasional track use.
I put anti-roll bars on front and rear and loved it. Simon De Banke drove the car around Mira's wet circuit before and after the bars were fitted and preferred it without the new roll bars.
I liked it and felt more comfortable with the car after the bars were added.
I personally feel the handling issue is a very personal one and hope this thread gives productive arguments relating to the individuals style of driving.
I have owned an unmodified GSi2000 4x4 and found it quite entertaining too.
My Prodrive setup with Anti-Lift kit had the back end snapping out all the time on the track. The instructor who drove the car loved it commenting that the Prodrive setup was best in his opinion for road/occasional track use.
I put anti-roll bars on front and rear and loved it. Simon De Banke drove the car around Mira's wet circuit before and after the bars were fitted and preferred it without the new roll bars.
I liked it and felt more comfortable with the car after the bars were added.
I personally feel the handling issue is a very personal one and hope this thread gives productive arguments relating to the individuals style of driving.
I have owned an unmodified GSi2000 4x4 and found it quite entertaining too.
29 September 2000, 12:31 AM
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Nice choice of cars you have had. Was the GSi standard, if it was you wouldn’t understand the difference the Koni Kit makes to them?
The problem with the standard imprezas is that the suspension is to soft, causing boby roll, they also have a problem coming out of corners, being that the power is not transferred quickly enough from back to the front (mechanical transfer box, unlike the ones they rally) Also they don’t give much feedback, so they’re difficult to drive on the limit, as you don’t know what’s happening with the car. Also those 15” wheels & Yoko tyres cause a lack of traction. The wheels also tramline, however this is probably due to 17" wheels, and he wishes he had tried 16" ones.
Anyhow put short my 16vSRi will get from one end of a B road, just as fast (if not faster) then my brothers Impreza. Does that constitute bad handling to you?
And remember I’m comparing my SRi to one that’s running competition suspension, not standard!
The problem with the standard imprezas is that the suspension is to soft, causing boby roll, they also have a problem coming out of corners, being that the power is not transferred quickly enough from back to the front (mechanical transfer box, unlike the ones they rally) Also they don’t give much feedback, so they’re difficult to drive on the limit, as you don’t know what’s happening with the car. Also those 15” wheels & Yoko tyres cause a lack of traction. The wheels also tramline, however this is probably due to 17" wheels, and he wishes he had tried 16" ones.
Anyhow put short my 16vSRi will get from one end of a B road, just as fast (if not faster) then my brothers Impreza. Does that constitute bad handling to you?
And remember I’m comparing my SRi to one that’s running competition suspension, not standard!
29 September 2000, 12:43 AM
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My GSi was standard and I was not slating its setup. By entertaining I meant fun. For me. I can understand the difference as friends of mine all either have or have owned cars which have been fine tuned to suit them over periods of time.
Do/Have you and your brother swopped cars and done the same run to see if the Astra is better in the hands of another driver?
This thread is going to deteriorate rapidly.
Do/Have you and your brother swopped cars and done the same run to see if the Astra is better in the hands of another driver?
This thread is going to deteriorate rapidly.
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29 September 2000, 12:50 AM
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Jason,
Before my MY99 Impreza, I had a Clio Williams, a 1.3 Rallye and a 1.6 Rallye. In the dry, nothing (at that time) could touch the Williams on the country roads. In the wet, the Williams was found lacking, the 1.3 Rallye having less power was much more stable in the wet. The 1.6 Rallye had the LAD suspension fitted and this improved the car no end. However after taking out a standard UK Impreza on a test drive in the wet along the country roads, there was no comparision. The Impreza being the best car I have driven. I also test drove a 306 Rallye and this in my opinion was still behind the Williams.
In the dry, the Subaru does enter the corners at a much higher speed that the Williams and I have never had the car on the limit (yet), depends on your driving style. And in the wet, the Impreza gives you so much confidence that you don't even know it is raining heavily. I've never had that feeling in any other car.
So how is your Cavalier in the wet?
You may say it can beat an Impreza in the dry? but the 4 wheel drive of the Impreza in the wet would give a much safer, more confidence inspiring drive and dare I say quicker time that the Cavalier!
Before my MY99 Impreza, I had a Clio Williams, a 1.3 Rallye and a 1.6 Rallye. In the dry, nothing (at that time) could touch the Williams on the country roads. In the wet, the Williams was found lacking, the 1.3 Rallye having less power was much more stable in the wet. The 1.6 Rallye had the LAD suspension fitted and this improved the car no end. However after taking out a standard UK Impreza on a test drive in the wet along the country roads, there was no comparision. The Impreza being the best car I have driven. I also test drove a 306 Rallye and this in my opinion was still behind the Williams.
In the dry, the Subaru does enter the corners at a much higher speed that the Williams and I have never had the car on the limit (yet), depends on your driving style. And in the wet, the Impreza gives you so much confidence that you don't even know it is raining heavily. I've never had that feeling in any other car.
So how is your Cavalier in the wet?
You may say it can beat an Impreza in the dry? but the 4 wheel drive of the Impreza in the wet would give a much safer, more confidence inspiring drive and dare I say quicker time that the Cavalier!
29 September 2000, 12:50 AM
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Jason
Your post is interesting, but I have to dissagree with you.
You say the car is on AVO dampers. I understand that AVO supply the kits with 300 front and 200 rear springs. This would not help turn in and would amplify the car's natural tendancy to understeer. I have no knowledge of the bump and rebound rates the AVO is set with, but again these would greatly influence the handling and driver's confidence in the car.
You make no mention of geometry. Post something here and ask if people have improved the standard set up with geometry changes. You will get hundreds of positive responses.
Combine suspension that has been through a proper R&D programme, like the Leda kit, DMS or the P1 units, with geometry tuned for that set up, and you will have a car that handles beyond your wildest dreams.
And yes, you will be able to take that corner, with huge margins of safety, in the wet or dry. I know a piece of road where I can pull enough distance on an STi5, on one bend, that he will not catch me by the end of the 1 mile straight that follows it. That's in my humble UK car, with sorted suspension.
The car on Top Gear was a dog. 15" wheels, who knows what tyres, lets not even think about the geometry or condition of the dampers.
As an example, I recently provided a car for the filming of Clarkson's Christmas video. The format was that they would put the most powerful Escort Cossie in the UK up against the Impreza that we brought along. They drag raced all these Escorts down the runway and one was substantially faster than the others. So fast in fact that I didn't think we would stand a chance. We were giving away well over 100 bhp and 130lb of torque, so were relying on the Impreza's suspension set up to be massively superior to the Escort's (it had Koni's).
The two cars were driven around a circuit, approx a mile long. Driven by Clarkson, VBH, the Cossie owner (a well known tuner of them), and Marty Becton (3 times Junior Aussie rally champion who did the British Rally Champs in a Scooby last year). I have respect for all four drivers.
The cars could not be split on the stopwatch, by any driver!!!
If Impreza's don't handle, perhaps you would care to explain how just this could have happened.
Then again, perhaps we were all very lucky that your Cavalier wasn't there
Your post is interesting, but I have to dissagree with you.
You say the car is on AVO dampers. I understand that AVO supply the kits with 300 front and 200 rear springs. This would not help turn in and would amplify the car's natural tendancy to understeer. I have no knowledge of the bump and rebound rates the AVO is set with, but again these would greatly influence the handling and driver's confidence in the car.
You make no mention of geometry. Post something here and ask if people have improved the standard set up with geometry changes. You will get hundreds of positive responses.
Combine suspension that has been through a proper R&D programme, like the Leda kit, DMS or the P1 units, with geometry tuned for that set up, and you will have a car that handles beyond your wildest dreams.
And yes, you will be able to take that corner, with huge margins of safety, in the wet or dry. I know a piece of road where I can pull enough distance on an STi5, on one bend, that he will not catch me by the end of the 1 mile straight that follows it. That's in my humble UK car, with sorted suspension.
The car on Top Gear was a dog. 15" wheels, who knows what tyres, lets not even think about the geometry or condition of the dampers.
As an example, I recently provided a car for the filming of Clarkson's Christmas video. The format was that they would put the most powerful Escort Cossie in the UK up against the Impreza that we brought along. They drag raced all these Escorts down the runway and one was substantially faster than the others. So fast in fact that I didn't think we would stand a chance. We were giving away well over 100 bhp and 130lb of torque, so were relying on the Impreza's suspension set up to be massively superior to the Escort's (it had Koni's).
The two cars were driven around a circuit, approx a mile long. Driven by Clarkson, VBH, the Cossie owner (a well known tuner of them), and Marty Becton (3 times Junior Aussie rally champion who did the British Rally Champs in a Scooby last year). I have respect for all four drivers.
The cars could not be split on the stopwatch, by any driver!!!
If Impreza's don't handle, perhaps you would care to explain how just this could have happened.
Then again, perhaps we were all very lucky that your Cavalier wasn't there
29 September 2000, 12:53 AM
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It's Cavaliers we have had, not Astras.
My brother had 3 SRi's previous to his Impreza, and says the Cavaliers with sorted suspension handle better and give more feedback than this Scooby.
He has also had a V6 Mondeo, and 2.5Vectra SRi, and these dont handle either.
I also have a SRi with Koni Kit, and find his Impreza lacks feedback. And this is with suspension that hard, if you press on the Impreza it don't move!
Just making to point here that the high handling claims of the Impreza are over rated thats all.
My brother had 3 SRi's previous to his Impreza, and says the Cavaliers with sorted suspension handle better and give more feedback than this Scooby.
He has also had a V6 Mondeo, and 2.5Vectra SRi, and these dont handle either.
I also have a SRi with Koni Kit, and find his Impreza lacks feedback. And this is with suspension that hard, if you press on the Impreza it don't move!
Just making to point here that the high handling claims of the Impreza are over rated thats all.
29 September 2000, 11:56 AM
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Now I know it’s hard to believe when I come on here and say that Scooby’s don’t handle, and that a Cavalier with decent suspension can but distance on a std one.
First off that Scooby Avo Kit is a 3-point kit, it has ride height, plus compression and re bound damping. My brother has also run difference springs setting with it and for all this efforts can not get the car to handle correctly. And remember this is after a £2k ProDrive kit!
This Scooby handled so bad standard, when he got it from the garage the first thing he did was get in a 4 wheel drift coming off a roundabout. This was back in 96, so he has had 4 years of driving this, so the excuse that he is not use to it does not stand. He has also had very fast cars, all modified, and finds the Impreza handling simply over-rated. However the power is very good.
I think what happens with cars is that the motor presses over rate them. Then people that are not use to driving a car fast buy one, and think it’s the dogs. The cavalier in standard form handles terrible, but with a complete Koni Kit it is simply transformed. The Scooby driver that was following me the other weekend, found this out the hard way!
Now I’m not saying ‘all’ Imprezas don’t handle, as that new P1 is probably good, just saying that standard ones are overrated that’s all.
Also that review was on TopGear. They were testing second hand cars, they had an Evo5, Lacier and Impreza. They slated the Impreza for it’s handling, and showed it under steering on a corner. Brother was please because this was the first time, someone had confirmed how bad his £26k Car was.
Don’t believe any off this?
Ask yourself this question!
When was the last time you were out in your standard Impreza and came out of a corner doing 90 or a 100+, when the limit on that corner for a normal car is say 60. Be honest with yourself, and if you have never done it ask yourself why?
First off that Scooby Avo Kit is a 3-point kit, it has ride height, plus compression and re bound damping. My brother has also run difference springs setting with it and for all this efforts can not get the car to handle correctly. And remember this is after a £2k ProDrive kit!
This Scooby handled so bad standard, when he got it from the garage the first thing he did was get in a 4 wheel drift coming off a roundabout. This was back in 96, so he has had 4 years of driving this, so the excuse that he is not use to it does not stand. He has also had very fast cars, all modified, and finds the Impreza handling simply over-rated. However the power is very good.
I think what happens with cars is that the motor presses over rate them. Then people that are not use to driving a car fast buy one, and think it’s the dogs. The cavalier in standard form handles terrible, but with a complete Koni Kit it is simply transformed. The Scooby driver that was following me the other weekend, found this out the hard way!
Now I’m not saying ‘all’ Imprezas don’t handle, as that new P1 is probably good, just saying that standard ones are overrated that’s all.
Also that review was on TopGear. They were testing second hand cars, they had an Evo5, Lacier and Impreza. They slated the Impreza for it’s handling, and showed it under steering on a corner. Brother was please because this was the first time, someone had confirmed how bad his £26k Car was.
Don’t believe any off this?
Ask yourself this question!
When was the last time you were out in your standard Impreza and came out of a corner doing 90 or a 100+, when the limit on that corner for a normal car is say 60. Be honest with yourself, and if you have never done it ask yourself why?
29 September 2000, 01:13 PM
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Pete
I don’t know what poundage springs he is running, but he has changed them to try and get them correct. He has also lowered the spring collars, but although the car is a lot better, it's still not much fun to drive. He spend 4 months with ProDrive trying to get it right, and them changing springs previous to this but no joy.
I'm talking about bog standard impreza here, wasn’t that impreza in the Clarkson video a STi5. Not the same thing.
Also that one on Top gear was a standard 94 model, and bad tires or not it should not have performed like it did.
All I know is that if I see a 'standard' uk spec car behind my Cavalier, then given the chance I can put distance on it on B road corners. I'm not talking about special models, just the basic spec £20k Scooby’s.
I don’t know what poundage springs he is running, but he has changed them to try and get them correct. He has also lowered the spring collars, but although the car is a lot better, it's still not much fun to drive. He spend 4 months with ProDrive trying to get it right, and them changing springs previous to this but no joy.
I'm talking about bog standard impreza here, wasn’t that impreza in the Clarkson video a STi5. Not the same thing.
Also that one on Top gear was a standard 94 model, and bad tires or not it should not have performed like it did.
All I know is that if I see a 'standard' uk spec car behind my Cavalier, then given the chance I can put distance on it on B road corners. I'm not talking about special models, just the basic spec £20k Scooby’s.
29 September 2000, 01:24 PM
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zzzzzzz. Another Max-Power goon in a baseball hat dons his flame suit and wades into Scoobynet. Anyone who "gets in a four wheel drift" whilst driving round a roundabout is driving like a cretin, it's as simple as that.
Begone forever, and take your dreary, sales-rep, garage magnet Vauxhall with you!
Begone forever, and take your dreary, sales-rep, garage magnet Vauxhall with you!
29 September 2000, 01:43 PM
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When your power sliding at 100 with confidence, Vauxhalls suddenly loose their rep appeal :-)
But anyway Pete what have you done then to get a standard UK spec car set correctly then. This is a serious question, and would like to know. Maybe my brother can fix his. What kit are you running on it?
But anyway Pete what have you done then to get a standard UK spec car set correctly then. This is a serious question, and would like to know. Maybe my brother can fix his. What kit are you running on it?
29 September 2000, 01:47 PM
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Hmmm.
Right what wheels and tyres are you running?
I ran a celica with Koni, and 3 oversize wheels (i.e. gain 3") yes the difference was amazing, but it was harsher (i liked this) it could be forced to rub in the arches, it did "outhandle" every other tweaked car that tried to race me. Did it handle better, Im not sure, because I absolutely knew 100% where the limit of the handling of that car was. If you wanted to race me, I would push 100%, and it would have to be a very confident driver who really knew his machine to keep up.
Now Ive had my scoob for 1 year (1st birthday next wednesday). Im not happy with the handling, in that It doesnt have the "feel" of the celica, so I dont drive anywhere near 100%. Im guessing at 80%, but Im so far off the limit that who can say for sure.
Now, the acid test. Most sunday nights I meet up with my mates at a friends house which for me is a short 20ish min country blast.
Its 20ish mins now that is, it used to be 25ish mins in the celica, it was 30ish before the celicas suspension mods (and brakes).
If I pushed harder, the time would fall. This isnt long straight roads either, its a fair amount of twistyish bits.
Before I sold the celica I removed the rims, and put the original ones back on, the ride was pants. The KONI wasnt making that much difference, it was the rims doing a lot, with the tyres, not the suspension, But, in the wet it was much easier to drive, seemed to grip much better, all be it much scarier as it felt removed from the road.
You say that the suspension is too soft on the scoob. But, you are talking about a 3-4 year old one, so are the shocks ok?
It sounds like your suspension must be very hard. The SRis and GSis that I have been in have had a fairly twisty chassis, so your would need hard suspension to cover this. So I am assuming this country road of your must have been nice and smooth, more like a track surface. Doesnt you SRi have a bad tramlining problem?
Try it out on a decently rough B road and it wont handle as the suspension will be too firm.
Plus, you claim the driver lost it, what do you mean lost it? At those speeds if he lost it he should have been in a hedge or ditch or something? Maybe he just backed off? I certainly do when I see someone who thinks he has a point to prove (or try to prove). Ive followed a car before that was literally on the edge, I was thinking **** hes going to loose that sooner or later (it was some limited edition or tweaked rover 25 thing). Seeing as he was in front of me, I backed off, once we entered a slow twisty bit, followed by a decent straight, I flew past him, then every village after he would come tearing up to the back of me not obeying the limits. Maybe your car didnt look as impressive from outside as you think it is inside? Its suprising what a car at 100% can actually do.
As has been said, that episode of top gear was a very poor one. So you say that all the magazines etc are wrong, but one episode of top gear is right?
robski
Right what wheels and tyres are you running?
I ran a celica with Koni, and 3 oversize wheels (i.e. gain 3") yes the difference was amazing, but it was harsher (i liked this) it could be forced to rub in the arches, it did "outhandle" every other tweaked car that tried to race me. Did it handle better, Im not sure, because I absolutely knew 100% where the limit of the handling of that car was. If you wanted to race me, I would push 100%, and it would have to be a very confident driver who really knew his machine to keep up.
Now Ive had my scoob for 1 year (1st birthday next wednesday). Im not happy with the handling, in that It doesnt have the "feel" of the celica, so I dont drive anywhere near 100%. Im guessing at 80%, but Im so far off the limit that who can say for sure.
Now, the acid test. Most sunday nights I meet up with my mates at a friends house which for me is a short 20ish min country blast.
Its 20ish mins now that is, it used to be 25ish mins in the celica, it was 30ish before the celicas suspension mods (and brakes).
If I pushed harder, the time would fall. This isnt long straight roads either, its a fair amount of twistyish bits.
Before I sold the celica I removed the rims, and put the original ones back on, the ride was pants. The KONI wasnt making that much difference, it was the rims doing a lot, with the tyres, not the suspension, But, in the wet it was much easier to drive, seemed to grip much better, all be it much scarier as it felt removed from the road.
You say that the suspension is too soft on the scoob. But, you are talking about a 3-4 year old one, so are the shocks ok?
It sounds like your suspension must be very hard. The SRis and GSis that I have been in have had a fairly twisty chassis, so your would need hard suspension to cover this. So I am assuming this country road of your must have been nice and smooth, more like a track surface. Doesnt you SRi have a bad tramlining problem?
Try it out on a decently rough B road and it wont handle as the suspension will be too firm.
Plus, you claim the driver lost it, what do you mean lost it? At those speeds if he lost it he should have been in a hedge or ditch or something? Maybe he just backed off? I certainly do when I see someone who thinks he has a point to prove (or try to prove). Ive followed a car before that was literally on the edge, I was thinking **** hes going to loose that sooner or later (it was some limited edition or tweaked rover 25 thing). Seeing as he was in front of me, I backed off, once we entered a slow twisty bit, followed by a decent straight, I flew past him, then every village after he would come tearing up to the back of me not obeying the limits. Maybe your car didnt look as impressive from outside as you think it is inside? Its suprising what a car at 100% can actually do.
As has been said, that episode of top gear was a very poor one. So you say that all the magazines etc are wrong, but one episode of top gear is right?
robski
29 September 2000, 02:20 PM
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Bloody ell is it half term already.
Jason - if your brother has kept the car for 4yrs it cant be that bad, I suspect its history may be dubious, perhaps two cars in one, or maybe he just cant drive.
Why not do a track day in your Cavalier, we would all like to see these 100mph power slides.
Did it not cross your mind the other w/e that the Scooby driver may have not wanted to drive like a prat putting other road users at risk.
Jason - if your brother has kept the car for 4yrs it cant be that bad, I suspect its history may be dubious, perhaps two cars in one, or maybe he just cant drive.
Why not do a track day in your Cavalier, we would all like to see these 100mph power slides.
Did it not cross your mind the other w/e that the Scooby driver may have not wanted to drive like a prat putting other road users at risk.
29 September 2000, 02:49 PM
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Robski
All our Cavs (mine and my brothers) have run this standard wheels. I currenty run 15" wheels with 195/60 Pirelli P6000 tyres. The secret is not in the wheels, but in the suspension and reducing that body roll.
Most standard cars bank on the limit, but get the suspension sorted and they simply slide.
Also tramlining on my Cavalier is no problem, it's the Impretza that tramlines. It's also very twitchy in a straight line, again due to those 17" wheels and PZero tyres. However the scooby is good in the wet.
I agree with you about not driving your Impretza 100%, this is the problem my brother has as the car gives little feed back, thus he can not drive it on the limit, unlike his Cavs.
I never said this scooby driver lost it when trying to keep with my cav, all I said is that he could not stay with me on coners. My car was totally controlled, and I was very relaxed, I even had time to watch the scooby in my mirror, and this is with me doing close on 100mph between corners.
I have no problems with bumpy roads on my cav, even with the dampers set full on, probably due to the fact i'm running 60 profile tyres.
Also my brothers Scooby was brought brande new 4 years ago, it it was bad from day 1. It's also had uprated dampers twice, so I dont think worn dampers are a problem.
All our Cavs (mine and my brothers) have run this standard wheels. I currenty run 15" wheels with 195/60 Pirelli P6000 tyres. The secret is not in the wheels, but in the suspension and reducing that body roll.
Most standard cars bank on the limit, but get the suspension sorted and they simply slide.
Also tramlining on my Cavalier is no problem, it's the Impretza that tramlines. It's also very twitchy in a straight line, again due to those 17" wheels and PZero tyres. However the scooby is good in the wet.
I agree with you about not driving your Impretza 100%, this is the problem my brother has as the car gives little feed back, thus he can not drive it on the limit, unlike his Cavs.
I never said this scooby driver lost it when trying to keep with my cav, all I said is that he could not stay with me on coners. My car was totally controlled, and I was very relaxed, I even had time to watch the scooby in my mirror, and this is with me doing close on 100mph between corners.
I have no problems with bumpy roads on my cav, even with the dampers set full on, probably due to the fact i'm running 60 profile tyres.
Also my brothers Scooby was brought brande new 4 years ago, it it was bad from day 1. It's also had uprated dampers twice, so I dont think worn dampers are a problem.
29 September 2000, 03:05 PM
#22
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Apart from being a total waste of disk space, are these postings just some form of self-therapy, to help you deal with the fact that you drive around in the world's most unfashionable car?
29 September 2000, 03:06 PM
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Lord Lucan
Well if this Scooby driver had not come tearing up from behind at well over a 100, and then driving his car of the bumper of my Cav I my not have done it on him.
It was a young driver in a Red P reg UK 4 door. Looked standard.
Luckily for me there were some nice fast roads just coming up ahead, and knowing how my brothers Impreza handled standard I decided to give him an education.
Kind of felt sorry in a way cuss he tried real hard. Watching him in my mirror, my car was so stable out of those corners, and this is at 90+ on some exits. To be honest I was under my limit. Must have been a shock to him, guess he's never had a car out handle him before, let alone a Cavalier.
He did eventually get past me on a straight bit, but since I’m running 136bhp not a big surprise. However I had already proved my handling point.
Well if this Scooby driver had not come tearing up from behind at well over a 100, and then driving his car of the bumper of my Cav I my not have done it on him.
It was a young driver in a Red P reg UK 4 door. Looked standard.
Luckily for me there were some nice fast roads just coming up ahead, and knowing how my brothers Impreza handled standard I decided to give him an education.
Kind of felt sorry in a way cuss he tried real hard. Watching him in my mirror, my car was so stable out of those corners, and this is at 90+ on some exits. To be honest I was under my limit. Must have been a shock to him, guess he's never had a car out handle him before, let alone a Cavalier.
He did eventually get past me on a straight bit, but since I’m running 136bhp not a big surprise. However I had already proved my handling point.
29 September 2000, 03:06 PM
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Having recently jumped from a mk2 golf gti 16v with a very cheap set of uprated springs and shockers into an impreza I was very disapointed with the handling.Too much body roll,wild understeer,unresponsive steering.
I have owned several quick cars and as much as I love my scooby I do think the handling has been totally overated by the press.
As for a cavalier outhandling it...er I dont think so!
I have owned several quick cars and as much as I love my scooby I do think the handling has been totally overated by the press.
As for a cavalier outhandling it...er I dont think so!
29 September 2000, 03:07 PM
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Jason,
Just thought I'd mention that if the Police caught you doing 100mph on the public road in an assumed 60mph limit, they would be less than impressed. You would be looking at a very long ban and possibly some jail time.
I'm no angel, but I would like to know where you can do 100mph on a twisty road and be guaranteed not to come round the corner and find a horse, cyclist, broken down car etc. Have you any idea of the stopping distance at 100mph in a straight line let alone when cornering?
Jerome.
[This message has been edited by Jerome (edited 29 September 2000).]
Just thought I'd mention that if the Police caught you doing 100mph on the public road in an assumed 60mph limit, they would be less than impressed. You would be looking at a very long ban and possibly some jail time.
I'm no angel, but I would like to know where you can do 100mph on a twisty road and be guaranteed not to come round the corner and find a horse, cyclist, broken down car etc. Have you any idea of the stopping distance at 100mph in a straight line let alone when cornering?
Jerome.
[This message has been edited by Jerome (edited 29 September 2000).]
29 September 2000, 03:19 PM
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I've been beaten on a twisty road section before by a standard Vectra, an estate company one. (don't think it was even a V6).
I don't think there's any question that my Impreza could go round corners faster (handling is subjective, I won't use that term).
The fact is he was willing to take *far* more chances than me and drive his car to the limit. The car's not better - he's just a bleeding nutter, and obviously not worried at all about the concealed entrance / horse / tractor that could be round the next bend.
I don't think saying 'I beat him etc etc' on public roads says much about the car, but more about the drivers abilities / fear of causing death by being a tosser.
Uhh lecture over. ;-)
Gary
I don't think there's any question that my Impreza could go round corners faster (handling is subjective, I won't use that term).
The fact is he was willing to take *far* more chances than me and drive his car to the limit. The car's not better - he's just a bleeding nutter, and obviously not worried at all about the concealed entrance / horse / tractor that could be round the next bend.
I don't think saying 'I beat him etc etc' on public roads says much about the car, but more about the drivers abilities / fear of causing death by being a tosser.
Uhh lecture over. ;-)
Gary
29 September 2000, 03:23 PM
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Col
Your almost there, correct about the Impreza, finally someone here that thinks there over rated.
Now all you need to do is find a Cav with a decent suspension setup on it.
Unlike the Impreza, Cavaliers with decent suspension are one of life’s most under-rated things.
Your almost there, correct about the Impreza, finally someone here that thinks there over rated.
Now all you need to do is find a Cav with a decent suspension setup on it.
Unlike the Impreza, Cavaliers with decent suspension are one of life’s most under-rated things.
