Insurance increase for an air filter!?
21 February 2001, 06:03 PM
#1
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I know this isn't exactly the right forum, but I also know lots more people read this...
I've just told Admiral that I've fitted a new air filter (Piper X) to my MY98 WRX and they've put up my insurance by £30 - just to take me up to renewal at the end of August! Is this normal? They said it would be about the same increase if I fitted a performance exhaust which sounds a bit silly to me as this would increase performance and attract attention in greater measures.
My brother has a Renault 19 16v and got no increases when he fitted a K & N filter and a Magnex exhaust and he's also with Admiral! Where's the justice in that? My last renewal was about £1500 which is high enough (27, 3 years NCB, no points) but this is adding insult to injury. Are all insurnace companies treating minor upgrades in a similar fashion, or is it time to move on?
I've just told Admiral that I've fitted a new air filter (Piper X) to my MY98 WRX and they've put up my insurance by £30 - just to take me up to renewal at the end of August! Is this normal? They said it would be about the same increase if I fitted a performance exhaust which sounds a bit silly to me as this would increase performance and attract attention in greater measures.
My brother has a Renault 19 16v and got no increases when he fitted a K & N filter and a Magnex exhaust and he's also with Admiral! Where's the justice in that? My last renewal was about £1500 which is high enough (27, 3 years NCB, no points) but this is adding insult to injury. Are all insurnace companies treating minor upgrades in a similar fashion, or is it time to move on?
21 February 2001, 07:31 PM
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I would phone and tell them you will change to another company. How long can they get away with it ...?? FOR AS LONG AS WE LET THEM.
I wonder if you put a 12.month T/Disk on a car would it be worth more than if you only had 6. months on it. ?? How about if you use SUL rather than normal unleaded?? That makes the car perform better.......
Maybe some one should contact the large Insurance companies and ask them "WHO REALLY WANTS OUR MONEY" If about 300 owners said they would move to a company that treated us with some respect and common sense,A company would love that amount of business
Luke
I wonder if you put a 12.month T/Disk on a car would it be worth more than if you only had 6. months on it. ?? How about if you use SUL rather than normal unleaded?? That makes the car perform better.......
Maybe some one should contact the large Insurance companies and ask them "WHO REALLY WANTS OUR MONEY" If about 300 owners said they would move to a company that treated us with some respect and common sense,A company would love that amount of business
Luke
21 February 2001, 08:04 PM
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Scooby - had similar with mine recently. Fitted Magnex centre + bb and told them about fitting new Corbeau road seats. This increased my premium by £70 for the remaining 9 months.
I did check before fitting the exhaust that it would be possible. At that time they said two mods were allowed. The silly thing is that they didn't really want the details of the exhaust, only asked whether "it was performance enhancing".
The real p1ss take is when I asked about fitting 17" wheels and they said it would be a further £240 for the rst of the year!
There don't seem to be any rules to insurance - some people have modifications done with no increases, others get shafted!
I did check before fitting the exhaust that it would be possible. At that time they said two mods were allowed. The silly thing is that they didn't really want the details of the exhaust, only asked whether "it was performance enhancing".
The real p1ss take is when I asked about fitting 17" wheels and they said it would be a further £240 for the rst of the year!
There don't seem to be any rules to insurance - some people have modifications done with no increases, others get shafted!
21 February 2001, 08:56 PM
#4
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Luke
Don't bother. The whole motor market is losing money hand over fist. Ambulance chasing compensation companies advertising everywhere, NHS casualty bills being charged back to insurers, the last thing any of them want is another 300 performance cars distorting their book of business.
It's all about risk and probability of loss.
Mrs Housewife aged 40-50, no kids, with a 1.1 Fiesta is what they want.
All companies have different rules to each other, and it depends on the individual, postcode, usage of car and a whole host of other things.
Just renewed mine (UK MY00) with full Scoobysport exhaust, ITG filter, 17" Prodrive P1 wheels and STI5 rear wing, and although they did not want to do the wheels at first I broked them into doing the whole lot at nil additional premium - and on Carolyn's similar car.
And not bothering to tell your insurer is not an option - as will be found out when you have a £200,000 third party injury claim which your insurer is legally liable to pay under the Road Traffic Laws who then decide to refuse to pay you for your write off plus decide to sue you for the TP costs back because they were insuring a different car to the one they agreed to!
[This message has been edited by Dave T-S (edited 21 February 2001).]
Don't bother. The whole motor market is losing money hand over fist. Ambulance chasing compensation companies advertising everywhere, NHS casualty bills being charged back to insurers, the last thing any of them want is another 300 performance cars distorting their book of business.
It's all about risk and probability of loss.
Mrs Housewife aged 40-50, no kids, with a 1.1 Fiesta is what they want.
All companies have different rules to each other, and it depends on the individual, postcode, usage of car and a whole host of other things.
Just renewed mine (UK MY00) with full Scoobysport exhaust, ITG filter, 17" Prodrive P1 wheels and STI5 rear wing, and although they did not want to do the wheels at first I broked them into doing the whole lot at nil additional premium - and on Carolyn's similar car.
And not bothering to tell your insurer is not an option - as will be found out when you have a £200,000 third party injury claim which your insurer is legally liable to pay under the Road Traffic Laws who then decide to refuse to pay you for your write off plus decide to sue you for the TP costs back because they were insuring a different car to the one they agreed to!
[This message has been edited by Dave T-S (edited 21 February 2001).]
21 February 2001, 09:35 PM
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Go with GreenLight Insurance next time ( 01277 263030) .... no extra charge for de-cat SS system and ITG filter.They wanted £40 extra for the sti 5 spoiler mind, but i guess thats livable 
21 February 2001, 10:21 PM
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I found NFU were reasonable on mods. Basically for my 94 UK car with 16" gold MY00 wheels, Scoobysport mid and back and MY00 spoiler they simply moved the car from group 17b to 18b. They were only worried about 'serious' performance upgrades (they cited a PPP ECU as an example) and as a result were the best quote I had by over £100.
21 February 2001, 10:35 PM
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Hit me with £25 for a wr sport backbox (although the policy schedule does say exhaust system/manifold 
) and even had the cheek to tell me in the event of a claim they would only replace it with a standard silencer 
What can you do ??
) and even had the cheek to tell me in the event of a claim they would only replace it with a standard silencer What can you do ??
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22 February 2001, 08:06 AM
#8
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Accept it.
The motor insurance industry is not registered with the Charity Commissioners. They are there to make a profit. They aren't. They are selling a product at a fixed price in advance and do not know what that product will have cost them until a year or more later. Not the ideal way to have to budget. If they sell for less than the product cost them, the price has to go up. Blame the Labour government for the latest costs to hit the industry - NHS A&E costs being charged back to insurers - the cost of a fatal road accident is put at an average of around £1 million.
If your vehicle is damaged and the repairer has to source non standard like for like parts the repair cost will go up - and in an industry that is already making a loss, the customer will have to pay.
The motor insurance industry is not registered with the Charity Commissioners. They are there to make a profit. They aren't. They are selling a product at a fixed price in advance and do not know what that product will have cost them until a year or more later. Not the ideal way to have to budget. If they sell for less than the product cost them, the price has to go up. Blame the Labour government for the latest costs to hit the industry - NHS A&E costs being charged back to insurers - the cost of a fatal road accident is put at an average of around £1 million.
If your vehicle is damaged and the repairer has to source non standard like for like parts the repair cost will go up - and in an industry that is already making a loss, the customer will have to pay.
22 February 2001, 01:45 PM
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Dick White
"no extra charge for de-cat SS system"
No wander. You might as well burn your insurance money. Your insurance company will turn around and tell you your insurance is void if you are driving a de-catted car on the public roads. Its illegal!
Yes we all do it, but do not tell the insurance company it is de-catted, just the BHP increase. It is almost impossible for them to find out.
Insurance companies are b@st@rds. You can tell them everything, they will take your money, but when it comes to claiming, they will do anything not to pay out.
The person on the end of the phone is only there to get your money. Its the accident inspectors that decide whether your car was correctly insured.
I think most scooby drivers will pay around £30. Its based on your annual premium and the % increase in performance. Put your car on the rolling road and check the real BHP gain, if its less than you thought you may save money, if its more, then be quite. Most of us pay between £1000 - £1500 a year.
Some luckey so and so's pay less.
"no extra charge for de-cat SS system"
No wander. You might as well burn your insurance money. Your insurance company will turn around and tell you your insurance is void if you are driving a de-catted car on the public roads. Its illegal!
Yes we all do it, but do not tell the insurance company it is de-catted, just the BHP increase. It is almost impossible for them to find out.
Insurance companies are b@st@rds. You can tell them everything, they will take your money, but when it comes to claiming, they will do anything not to pay out.
The person on the end of the phone is only there to get your money. Its the accident inspectors that decide whether your car was correctly insured.
I think most scooby drivers will pay around £30. Its based on your annual premium and the % increase in performance. Put your car on the rolling road and check the real BHP gain, if its less than you thought you may save money, if its more, then be quite. Most of us pay between £1000 - £1500 a year.
Some luckey so and so's pay less.
22 February 2001, 01:54 PM
#11
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sgould
quote
Insurance companies are b@st@rds. You can tell them everything, they will take your money, but when it comes to claiming, they will do anything not to pay out.
unquote
Lloyd's has been in existence fo over 300 years. In that time it has NEVER failed to pay a valid claim. So, basically, you are talking out of your ****. Stick to IT support.
BTW,
quote
Most of us pay between £1000 - £1500 a year.
Some luckey (sic) so and so's pay less.
unquote
1) are you over 30
2) do you have full NCB
3) do you have a clean licence
Answer no to any, and you have your answer!
quote
Insurance companies are b@st@rds. You can tell them everything, they will take your money, but when it comes to claiming, they will do anything not to pay out.
unquote
Lloyd's has been in existence fo over 300 years. In that time it has NEVER failed to pay a valid claim. So, basically, you are talking out of your ****. Stick to IT support.
BTW,
quote
Most of us pay between £1000 - £1500 a year.
Some luckey (sic) so and so's pay less.
unquote
1) are you over 30
2) do you have full NCB
3) do you have a clean licence
Answer no to any, and you have your answer!
22 February 2001, 02:14 PM
#12
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Of course, anybody that thinks they can do better is free to start up their own motor insurance company.....
All you need is DTI authorisation, capitalisation (say, £10 million to start), appoint bankers, hire an underwriter and support staff, premises, IT equipment and systems, advertising, credit control systems, design all your own forms and policy wordings, set up a list of agents or set up a website to direct sell, set up a list of loss adjusters, set up a list of approved repairers etc etc...
Any takers??
All you need is DTI authorisation, capitalisation (say, £10 million to start), appoint bankers, hire an underwriter and support staff, premises, IT equipment and systems, advertising, credit control systems, design all your own forms and policy wordings, set up a list of agents or set up a website to direct sell, set up a list of loss adjusters, set up a list of approved repairers etc etc...
Any takers??
22 February 2001, 05:32 PM
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Dave,
So do you believe it's totally fair to increase my insurance by £30 pounds over 6 months for an air filter which is not visible outside the vehicle and has so little (if any) effect on performance it's not noticeable? I can't really see how that makes me a higher risk and believe I'm being ripped off just a tad. Also, why would a performance exhaust cause the same increase in premium when obviously it should cause more, being both visible and more performance enhancing? Just think how much money these companies make out of us Scooby drivers alone - looking at it from a premium to claim perspective. Why should performance car drivers like us be penalised so heavily - yes we're higher risk, but are such premium increases over slower cars really justified or are we paying disproportionately high because we're easy targets? No fair.
So do you believe it's totally fair to increase my insurance by £30 pounds over 6 months for an air filter which is not visible outside the vehicle and has so little (if any) effect on performance it's not noticeable? I can't really see how that makes me a higher risk and believe I'm being ripped off just a tad. Also, why would a performance exhaust cause the same increase in premium when obviously it should cause more, being both visible and more performance enhancing? Just think how much money these companies make out of us Scooby drivers alone - looking at it from a premium to claim perspective. Why should performance car drivers like us be penalised so heavily - yes we're higher risk, but are such premium increases over slower cars really justified or are we paying disproportionately high because we're easy targets? No fair.
22 February 2001, 05:41 PM
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I sat at home yesterday waiting for a surveyor and had the TV on. Every advert break (and I mean every one!) had an advert saying,
"At home? No job? No money? Sue someone and have an easy life! Remember, it won't cost you a penny, just call freefone NoScruplesOrMorals!"
Normally just after a "consolidate all your debt into one place and we'll have you by the knackers" advert, too.
No win no fee is a good thing if it opens the courts to those who need it, but if it encourages the chancers then it's a Bad Thing.
This is why insurance goes up IMHO.
"At home? No job? No money? Sue someone and have an easy life! Remember, it won't cost you a penny, just call freefone NoScruplesOrMorals!"
Normally just after a "consolidate all your debt into one place and we'll have you by the knackers" advert, too.
No win no fee is a good thing if it opens the courts to those who need it, but if it encourages the chancers then it's a Bad Thing.
This is why insurance goes up IMHO.
22 February 2001, 05:53 PM
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I can't believe I am about to stick up for insurance companies 
, but never mind.
I honestly don't think that £30 is a fair increase for just an air filter, however, when you look at the fact that some companies can charge £10 as an admin charge for a change of address, because of the paperwork involved, it does make slightly more sense as it is probably £10 for the modification to the car and £20 admin (I'm just guessing here
)
As for insurance on performance cars being high, well if you look around this board, the rate at which Scoobies get written off does sort of explain why my insurance is not a million miles off the £2k mark.
I also agree with Chiark on the sue whoever adverts, grrrr and Dave on the NHS billing insurance companies, which will only get worse, IMHO.
It is painful, but as we choose to own the cars, I suppose we choose to pay all the associated costs
One very very poor Scooby owner.
, but never mind.I honestly don't think that £30 is a fair increase for just an air filter, however, when you look at the fact that some companies can charge £10 as an admin charge for a change of address, because of the paperwork involved, it does make slightly more sense as it is probably £10 for the modification to the car and £20 admin (I'm just guessing here
)As for insurance on performance cars being high, well if you look around this board, the rate at which Scoobies get written off does sort of explain why my insurance is not a million miles off the £2k mark.
I also agree with Chiark on the sue whoever adverts, grrrr and Dave on the NHS billing insurance companies, which will only get worse, IMHO.
It is painful, but as we choose to own the cars, I suppose we choose to pay all the associated costs
One very very poor Scooby owner.
22 February 2001, 06:02 PM
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£30 is half a tank of petrol.
I'm with Dave T-S on this, I don't like paying insurance either, but these guys make little money on car insurance so they have to make it somewhere.
Common sense would tell me to ask my insurance company before making the mod.
Equally I don't like paying tax either, but that's another topic.
Dave
I'm with Dave T-S on this, I don't like paying insurance either, but these guys make little money on car insurance so they have to make it somewhere.
Common sense would tell me to ask my insurance company before making the mod.
Equally I don't like paying tax either, but that's another topic.
Dave
22 February 2001, 06:15 PM
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sgould, when i filled in my proposal, i quite clearly stated SS de-cat exhaust, and ITG performance filter.Now if they are happy to accept that, and take my money, then asfar as i`m concerned, i am fully insured, reguardless of wether my car would pass an imissions test or not.
If they werent happy with the possibilty of my car producing extra power, i`m sure they would`nt have had any second thoughts as to adding and extra couple of hundred quid on my premium to cover the risk....which they did`nt. ( And i think it`s pretty obvious to all that my car will now be producing a few more horses than a bog standard car, don`t you?? )
If they werent happy with the possibilty of my car producing extra power, i`m sure they would`nt have had any second thoughts as to adding and extra couple of hundred quid on my premium to cover the risk....which they did`nt. ( And i think it`s pretty obvious to all that my car will now be producing a few more horses than a bog standard car, don`t you?? )
22 February 2001, 08:47 PM
#20
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Scoobysnacks
In all honesty I totally agree with you - £30 for a filter alone is over the top. There is an admin cost involved however. Trouble is all motor insurers have their own rules - as you all will have found out.
Chiark
Spot on!
Robertio
Nicely put also.
The only way we will get motor insurance premium costs down is to get the frequency/cost of claims down. Unfortunately that is not happening. There are also an estimated over ONE MILLION uninsured drivers on the road in the UK today - and that loads the honest like us....
It's about driver training - but the government is not interested - for instance instead of educate them to not speed the government's answer is to put zillions more speed cameras in and screw the motorist, again, instead....
In all honesty I totally agree with you - £30 for a filter alone is over the top. There is an admin cost involved however. Trouble is all motor insurers have their own rules - as you all will have found out.
Chiark
Spot on!
Robertio
Nicely put also.
The only way we will get motor insurance premium costs down is to get the frequency/cost of claims down. Unfortunately that is not happening. There are also an estimated over ONE MILLION uninsured drivers on the road in the UK today - and that loads the honest like us....
It's about driver training - but the government is not interested - for instance instead of educate them to not speed the government's answer is to put zillions more speed cameras in and screw the motorist, again, instead....
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