Andy Winskill

I picked up a copy of GTA the other day. Am I alone in thinking that a computer game where the main aim is to pull people out of their cars and drive off in them and the recent spate of car jackings could be linked?

Pitty I didn't pick it up from a store with a favourable returns policy...

RichS

I suppose it's in poor taste, particularly for those who have been victims of car crime.

However, I'm not convinced there's a link.

Are you suggesting that some people who play GTA or watch films like Gone in 60 Seconds might then decide to go out and steal cars?

If so, this is very worrying.

Rich

Little Miss WRX

This has been a well discussed debate and one that I know remains undecided and is still continuously rowed about by many groups. Especially on the subject of violence linked with kids - take the Bolger killing for instance. Many said that TV prgrammes and violent games were to blame.

What we do need to bear in mind is that these jackings are not merely one guy driving around crashing into things and jacking people's cars as in GTA.
More an organised gang that have spent months planning to take certain cars.
They certainly aren't opportunists IMHO.

I think the film Gone in 60 seconds could be criticised more heavily for giving people ideas than the game.

I think you have a very valid point, but we need to make sure that rather than issuing blame, work out how we can solve the issue. If it involves banning games like these, then the action should be taken. Lots of research needs to be done about it in order to prove the link first. I believe this would end up inconclusive.

Michelle.

Edited to to some cracking spelling errors

[Edited by Little Miss WRX - 3/5/2002 2:46:04 PM]

fast bloke

I know you've all heard it before, but my favourite argument is that my generation grew up with pacman, and we didn't end up hanging around dark rooms munching pills

Little Miss WRX

That is open to interpretation of course FB

DJ Dunk

iTrader: (5)

Especially when astraboys around

GazP

I have played GTA3 for months and not got the urge to go out and car jack anyone. Nor have I had the police, army and the mafia after me.

So I would say that theory is a load of rubbish.

The fact is the scum that car jack do it for the car, not because they have played a computer game.

P1Fanatic

I watched Terminator as a kid - doesnt mean I grew up to start hunting every person in the UK called Sarah Conor with a high powered assault rifle does it?

I think we need to get a grip on reality people. If people can be influenced to steal cars by watching a film or TV then thats more down to the individual.

dosenöffner

How about the new PS2 game where you are sup[posed to create riots and public disorder.

Would not say there is a link but there is growing public acceptance of crime.

DJ Dunk

iTrader: (5)

I just played "Hooligans - Storm Over Europe".

That game has warped my fragile little mind

Wey-o-wey-o-weyo-weyo

Markus

GTA causing people to car jack? hmm, don't think so. If that was the case then I'd have been out and done it by now, being an impressionable type.

This is the kind of thing the government and lobby groups put out, "oooh, people will copy it" Well, some might, but they aint exactly going to be the model citizen.

As for Hooligans, hehehehehe, ok, subject matter is a bit dodgy, but a gem of a game, glad that darxaber had the ***** to actually produce it.

moral decline, that's what it's all about, moral decline I tell you. when I was a lad..........

JohnMcC

I think the argument suggests that those who are already psychologically warped/affected etc will be affected by such tv programmes, games etc....not that any one who plays GTA is going to get the urge to run out, steal a tank and drive it over a mafia boss' car.

I think there is some validity to this argument, but do we really want to live in a society with that degree of censorship? I know i don't...

Gordo

There has to be a link - every time I watch a dirty movie I get a very real urge to replicate the actions of those on screen and have been known to approach the girlfriend in an agitated way because of them.....

Dream Weaver

If thats the case, then we should ban Formula 1, Rallying, PS2's, DVD's, Beer, Drugs, Sex and everything else that may cause another person (already disturbed) to replicate the behaviour they see.

I dont think films or computer games can EVER be blamed for these sorts of incidents - I grew up playing games and watching films I shouldn't but it has never turned me into a crim. These people are brought up like that. [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

You just have to get on with life, be careful, and not get too paranoid. I think this car jacking thing has got out of hand recently, due to the media reporting on something more than usual. Gets everyone panicking for no reason.

Just take sensible precautions and stay happy.

DW

DazW

iTrader: (1)

Car jacking is a result of improved car security pure and simple.

divecon

Hmmm..this is a very sensitive area and one that has been talked about for months/years. The situation varies constantly and can be driven by public perception at any given time mainly by the mass press.

I work in computer entertainment, in fact I've been making computer games for over eleven years now. There has been many, many conversations about the morality of making games that allow the user to do things that they would never do in the real lives. We are in the industry of 'escapism' allowing the game buying public to get an experience they would never normally achieve whether that be driving fast expensive cars; playing the part of an alien or assaulting beaches in WW2.

Of course levels of morality can be and are different from person to person, their lives and the lives of their loved ones and family affect how they feel about the specific game in question. EA had all sorts of questions to ask when they made the PC game 'Medal of Honour'. would the public appreciate being put into the middle of the Omaha beach landings, is that morally correct? That one is debatable.

Personally, would I work on a game I found morally offensive, probably no but this industry pays my way in life and allows me to enjoy things like my Impreza, would I refuse to work on a specific title? Maybe, that one I have yet to decide on.

As for GTA, does a computer game affect someone so deeply that they are required to go out and commit a crime in the same manner as the game? I would say no, they would have to be mentally so open to suggestion that they are unfit for public life. I cannot believe that the low-lifes who car-jack are so mentally inconsistent with real life that they don't know the difference between a game and the real thing.

This arguement will run and run, will it make a difference, probably no. If anyone wants to discuss this further I can be found at most of the Sussex meets from now on, please feel free to come down and verbally abuse me and my work!

Neil
Sussex

DJ Dunk

iTrader: (5)

divecon, we shall be coming down to give you some abuse in Bolney

DavidBrown

You're joking right?

1. You're 4 years late, as GTA was a hot potato with the media back in '98

2. The game is called "Grand Theft Auto", what did you expect it to contain ? A daisy chain making simulator ?

If you're of the mind to go car jacking, I don't think this game is more likely to inspire you to do so.

CELL

The game has an 18 certificate, therefore people under 18 who MAY be influenced by the game shouldn’t be playing it anyway

Adults who are influenced by this and don’t know the difference between a game and reality should be wiped from the face of the earth in my opinion.

Ian Griffiths

Blaming behaviour like that on external influences is sheer poppycock. Take either a poor upbringing or genetic evilness. I have neither and don't steal things. Spot the trend?

JohnBarnesAndHisGloves

The game dosenöffner was talking about is "ENEMY OF THE STATE" and it makes GTA3 look like a barbie shopping simulator...

Same viewpoint/graphical style as GTA3 but more detail. But its a very different game, more action, less thinking.

2 modes- "revolution", which, i must say, is a bit poo (like a poor copy of GTA3, and then theres....

CHAOS MODE! (this is where it gets disturbingly fun...)

In chaos mode there are over 150people on screen at one time at points, everybody is running the streets (or the shopping mall, on the first, not so good level) looting, running round carrying stolen tv's, cash registers, beer barrels, hi fi's, etc, the police are also there giving people a clout round the head with clubs for nicking stuff!
To score points you blow up cars, smash shop windows (using anything from bullets to park benches you can pick up n lob through), fire bomb (or just fully demolish!) buildings, massacare the police, and the various gangs in the area.
You can cut peoples heads clean off with meat cleavers etc and use dismembered heads n arms etc to beat people to death with.
There are weapons like bats n clubs, knives, grenades, petrol bombs, pistols, various machineguns, shotgun, through to flame throwers, grenade n rocket launcers, to everyones favourite, the mini-gun.
Unlike GTA3 police/army/secret agents go for whoever is causing the most trouble be it you, looters or gang members.
Also they react differently depending on how much damage you doing, most of the time they try to minimise civilian casualties, but when you been going real mad the cops will happily shoot straight through 100+civilians with rockets n miniguns just to get you on the other side of the subway station/street etc. When this kind of thing happens on narrow corridors or even on escalators its pretty brutal.

The games pretty messed up, but ive got to say, chaos mode is amazing fun, and ive not gone on the rampage toting a machine gun n a dismembered leg, yet...

Apart from people with severe mental problems/learning dificulties nobodys gonna be influenced by this kinda stuff. Anybody with an ounce of imagination or knowlege know that these weapons/activities/whatever exist, they dont need a game to tell them that its posible to pull someone out of a car stopped at a red light and nick the bloody thing...

Cheers

JBAHG

NumptyScrub

I listen to quite a lot of metal (Deicide, Slayer etc.), this has not as yet caused me to sacrifice my family to Satan and go on a Manson-esque murder spree, or hang myself in my bedroom.

I play violent computer games and have not yet gone on a rampage in the local shopping center.

I watch HK action films and have not run around trying to emulate any of the stunts on these films.

I listen to techno (have done since the early 90's), this has not caused me to go on a self destructive drug binge and drop out from society entirely.

However, should I ever do one of those things, no doubt it will be reported that it is because of one of those aformentioned pasttimes. Scare mongers in the media and government can rest assured that if I do snap, they have plenty of excuses to pin it on rather than face the fact that either:

a) I had a breakdown brought on by stress (job/home life/society/everything combined)

or b) I always was unfit to participate in society and should have been cosseted away in an institution well before now.

Neither of which give them an easy answer or a tidy scapegoat (and in one of those, actually costs them money).

This whole cause-and-effect argument stems from the inability of a few people to see that each individual is responsible for their own actions... they would rather believe that the cause of an individuals actions lies in some external source, that can then be censored to "stop it happening again". A viewpoint that seems to me to be a lot like a certain antipodean flightless birds sand antics [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

"I stole that car because GTA3 told me to, your honour."

"Oh, in that case you are free to go. The computer game manufacturer will serve your sentence instead."

Yeah, right... they stole it because they wanted to steal it. Their decision, their punishment. Which should be removal from society to some crim-only Shangri-La, where the only people they can hurt are others with the same lax attitudes to personal property and other violations of "basic human rights".

Derek

PS In view of my listed pasttimes, I like to think I am a useful and productive member of society. Even if I do work in IT...