PhilHulse

Looks like this could be of great benefit to P1 owners.

Adam M

Are the P1 owners, going to spur away from the rest of us and form a rival group. I am detecting wedges forming between the ranks,
hope it doesn't end up like lord of the flies.

NeilR

Ian Sutton

Lord of the flies i rememberthat book.

"Kill the P1g kill the P1g"

...he he he (bad sign when you laugh at your own jokes)

...Ian

NeilR

Yes, "Kill the P1g, Spill it's 22Blood"

Neil F

I have just e-mailed Kurt to ask him if his site is to include all STi's, although I personally dislike elitism.......

Adam M

No P1g is gonna spill any 22Blood. I defy any owner, P1 or STi to argue with that.

As if anyone is gonna prefer a blatant boring old type R, to a wide arch, wide track, 2.2 litre beast with a whopping poiler and complete admiration from all imprezaphiles.

Mike Tuckwood

Small, Red text on a black background, my eyes must be going, I found it all but unreadable?

Neil F

I own a proper STi, and even though it's got a WRC spoiler, I'm afraid I have to agree with Adam; the 22B is just the coolest looking car.

One day maybe....

Neil.

[This message has been edited by Neil F (edited 02-06-2000).]

chuckster

22B's are just too common, I see one everywhere I go these days, sometimes 2!
At least thanks to SUK's 'interesting' delivery techniques P1's are still rare.
Chuck
Escort 1.6L, GTI rear spoiler, 6 spoke alloys, Air-con

Beef

Jeez chuck - must be such a drag seeing them all over the place. You must think they're really common now! Still, I bet you wished you had one instead of that 'orrible Escort of yours...

DavidBrown

I welcome any site that supports the Scooby community, and congratulate the P1 boys on their launch. Well done.

I don't think this site will be divisive; on the contrary, I think it will unite P1 owners who find the excellent Scoobynet a little too generic.

And as more and more Scoobies are in circulation there are plenty of people to frequent both sites.

(and a little friendly competition can only be a good thing)

- start of techie nonsense ->

Blue text on black is a bad combo though IMO.

The top image forces a width of at least 890 pixels (600 pixels is the industry standard - see excite/yahoo).

Frames - ugh, big no-no for many reasons !

+ lots of other unsavoury things

<- end of techie nonsense

May the P1 site live long and prosper !

Blow Dog

2 pence worth.

800 x 600 is now standard (760 x 420 if you want to compensate for scroll bars and toolbars) The web design industry is pretty much fed up with the restrictions imposed upon them by substandard machines and benchmarks and hence are no longer catering for the gipos.


Frames are used in the construction of the most complex and attractive sites in the world. They are neccassary in order to provide users with the most intuitive and understandable navigation.

Cem

DavidBrown

Without getting too techie..

Frames are NOT used in high profile sites.

Top sites in the world include, Yahoo, Lycos, MSN that spring to mind, none of which use frames.

A framed site will always return you to the home page if you hit refresh. BAD

A framed site makes it nigh-on impossible to bookmark selected pages. BAD

And while 800x600 is the industry standard screen size, you definitely don't want your top image exceeding that (as in the case of the P1 site) and ideally you would like some bordering, which is why 600 is the industry standard webpage width for a 800 industry standard screen. Not to mention those more advanced users who run their browser as a non-fullscreen window.

Frames are advocated by people who are too lazy to program an intuitive interface with tables/CSS & templates.

Many search engines such as Infoseek do not spider framed sites, hindering your chances of being listed.

This is all well documented in HTML guidelines:

FRAMES:

Blow Dog

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[This message has been edited by Blow Dog (edited 03-06-2000).]

DavidBrown

Checkout

PAUL GEE

Steve,
having driven around the North West for 18 months now flashing most scoob turbo's i've encountered I think its important to let you know that its quite possible that 22B owners have stopped flashing other scoobs because they too get ignored. Evo's always flash, but very few Subarus. It's puzzled me for ages. It's almost like they prefer to pretend you're not there. Very strange!!??

Blow Dog

Deleted

[This message has been edited by Blow Dog (edited 03-06-2000).]

DavidBrown

This is not fun, this is tiresome.

Did I say I had done 3 sites in 6 years ? No. You made that bit up to suit your argument.

I said that I OWN 3 sites. (of which one of the mockup originals was done by Mike for UKBanners, and that template was used for Splut - ergo, don't believe everything you read)

"I am just fed up of people who put HTML together and suddenly think they are professional web designers".

Couldn't have put it better myself.

You list 5 sites.

One of which doesn't work under the latest version of IE5 (or isn't finished).

The others don't use traditional framesets in the context of the original post, or the fall into the un-bookmarkable and search-engine unspiderable category (points as yet unaddressed by you).

3 of the "major" sites you list (which aren't major sites) are not in production and appear to be mock-ups held on your company's server, that were done for existing or prospective clients, namely:

*********************************************
Webmaster: The URLs have been edited. This is off direct consequence to a owner of the websites.

If anybody has problems with this then please feel free to mail me offline.
*********************************************
Nice job.


[This message has been edited by DavidBrown (edited 03-06-2000).]

[This message has been edited by webmaster (edited 06-06-2000).]

Blow Dog

Deleted

[This message has been edited by Blow Dog (edited 03-06-2000).]

rsquire

Fight....! Fight....!

In the playground!! now coz there's a fight!!!



But Hey WTF would I know?

Richard

Oh Yeah and I'm with Chuck on this. Every bloody time I come to the UK all I see is damned 22Bs' Sheeesh!! Common as muck!!

Oh Children... Just checked you little ole homepages and ...

gisjob fragemented and may one ask what search criteria.

blowie Duuuh Mate. Any page that opens that many windows on my desktop gets instantly KILLED...

[This message has been edited by rsquire (edited 03-06-2000).]

Marcos

Just to put my pennith in:

Frames are bad.
Very bad.
Oh ....they are so bad.

I can back it up as I was the first online producer on the team that developed the europes biggest and still most successful website - BBC ONLINE -gasp! - I left after a year as I was sick of it... (we had to use frames only once on a live children-in-need site for 'what's coming up next!' - but that's another story).

One of our golden rules was not to use frames...I wonder if they do now?

I sure I'm going to get flack for this...:-).

In the games industry now - so I don't need to keep argueing with people about frames....

cheers

marcus

rsquire

Dude... The BBC sites are a great example of how NOT to create a website.

Just check out

Steve_Yeowart

2 points

1. When all the P1's are delivered there will be more than there were 22b's made (which is common now!!)

2. I totally agree with the separate ways feeling my experince of Scoobies is that the majority of drivers out there give a wave or a headlight flash to fellow owners. How ever I have not yet had a single response from the driver of any 22b I have seen, Are they superior to the rest of us and are you P1 drivers gonna go the same way? (please don't)

Steve_Yeowart

couple of points

1. When all the P1's are delivered there will be more of them than there ever were 22b's made.

2. Regarding a parting of the ways, P1 drivers please don't go the same way as the majority of 22b' drivers I have encountered. The majority of fellow scooby drivers out there resond with waves or flashes when we see each other. Not one of the 22b' s I have ever encountered has even acknowledged the fact I was there. Staring straight ahead inm some superior gaze as if to say what are you to do with me. Rather tragic really just because you payed a bit more (well £20,000 in some instances!!!) for your car. I ackwonledge sport owners when I see them some come on 22b's lighten up guys!!!

Lee

heh heh i do like a good thread <chuckles>

I kinda fall somewhere in the middle. I don't personally use frames as I like to make maximum use of the display area.

The search-engine debate rages on..there are some who say they DO follow the frameset links, some who say they DONT. Frankly if I felt frames were great I'd find out for myself for sure.

Depends on how much you have to show I guess.

Have a look at

DavidBrown

Oh dear..

It seems to me "blowdog", that you are (as we say in the trade) full of ****.

However, I'm a fair guy, and I believe in giving someone a fair chance to prove me otherwise..

You are full of criticism and rhetoric, without any facts to substantiate your statements.

re: unbookmarkable pages, go to the P1 site, click on the "signup" link at the bottom of the page. Can you bookmark that frameset ? Sure, you can bookmark that page, but then you lose your navigation options, or you could do what your "average joe" would do, and select the Favourites > Add to Favourites menu, but then you'd bookmark the homepage. Not satisfactory at all. Can you prove to the contrary ?

You have not addressed the point re: search engine spidering.

You have not address the point that the major websites in the world do NOT have frames. Name some major sites that do ?

Some of the sites I listed are dated up to 1999, and still hold true today, even if they are a year old.

Can you give some up-to-date articles that advocates frames over non-frames without caveats ?

My original posting was to congratulate the P1 boys on their launch and offer my advice regarding their site. They can do what they will with that advice.

I have nothing to prove, at least not to you, and have no interest in your experience either.

My experience of the web and my achievements are well known to the regulars on this BBS, and it would be tasteless of me to detail them here. Not to mention taking an off-topic line of discussion, even more off-topic, beyond the purpose of this BBS.




[This message has been edited by DavidBrown (edited 03-06-2000).]

Blow Dog

Lee,

I have always liked your choice of colours and the layout of 22B.com, but I do have one very important criticism.

Why cant I have a 22B?

bob

Ops thought I wondered onto I-chat for a moment then.

leaskc

bugger. I knew I should have spent more time sorting out