Borat_Drives_A_Scooby

The old Subaru rally car that the new version has replaced was a consistent performer in a lot of rallies but it was always miles off the pace and had to rely on things going wrong with the other top teams cars to get a respectable finish, i wasn`t expecting miracles from the new car at this early stage but i wasn`t expecting it to be still a couple of minutes off the pace which was the same as the old car was.

A couple of minutes in the WRC is a lifetime away, i was expecting the new car to be maybe around a minute off the pace which is still an eternity away but it would give the team something to work with, the new car has to rely on retirements or things going wrong with the other top teams cars to get a decent finish at the min. If all the top teams cars finish with very little going wrong then the new Subaru WRC will be a long way off the pace, light years away really.

I`m a bit dissapointed personally, i was expecting a bit more at this stage after a few rallies now and i would think that the team are a little dissapointed too at how far off the pace that the new car is overall.

172sport

iTrader: (6)

The old version has reached the end of its development cycle, the new has merely began. Give it chance, the others have 2-3 years evolution on it so far.....

Soon as they sort the crap paint scheme things will look a whole load better and times will tumble. As the old saying goes 'if it looks right it goes right' LOL

abc

If I was running a team and had a new car on a new surface, I'd want to get as much data as possible on how the car runs in a competitive situation. Given that goal, I'd be content with two solid finishes. Plus, the car has already shown that it's got the raw speed -- it's already put in some fastest stage times.

Borat_Drives_A_Scooby

Thats solid finishes after other leading cars retired or had problems, the old car set fastest stage times and i would have been very suprised if the new car had not set at least a few fastest stage times along the way.

Lets face it the subaru world rally team has a huge budget and this car had plenty of testing prior to making its debut so its not like you were throwing any old car into a rally, i`m just alarmed that over an entire rally the new car seems to be over a couple of minutes off the pace which is a heck of a lot.

Germany finishing positions, if Latvala hadn`t have problems you would have been looking at even lower finishing positions. + 2:35 is the best one car could manage.

1. Sebastien Loeb (Fra) Citroen 3hrs 26mins 19.700secs
2. Daniel Sordo (Spa) Citroen + 47.700 secs
3. Francois Duval (Bel) Ford 1:20.000
4. Mikko Hirvonen (Fin) Ford 1:30.100
5. Petter Solberg (Nor) Subaru 2:35.300
6. Chris Atkinson (Aus) Subaru 4:45.900

duds64

iTrader: (2)

dont forget the new car was put into racing earlier than expected

superstar1

It's the new colour scheme that puzzles me, they have affectively kicked themselves up their own ***** and destroyed the brand thats recognised the world over. It brought home to me how much the brand is loved when i was behind Petter Solberg driving up into the Hills at the Welsh rally a couple of years ago. Every little village we drove through, people came out of the little terraced houses wearing SRT shirts and waving Subaru flags. Imagine what the reaction would be if Ferrarri anounced that they were no longer painting the F1 cars red and turned out something that was all corporate and boring.

Borat_Drives_A_Scooby

It wouldn`t have been put into any rally if it wasn`t ready at around £500,000 per car and they must have been confident the car was ready as it made its debut on one of the toughest, car wrecking rallies in the WRC.

Mikkel

Who gives a monkeys what it looks like, it's a rally car man.

I agree, it is worrying that it is so far off the pace. It was to be expected to be slower as needs a year or two development, but the gap must surely be bigger than was hoped for at this stage.

superstar1

Wrong......... image, branding, PR or whatever you want to call it is everything in todays world. Why build up a successful brand thats recognised worldwide to replace it with a colour scheme that looks like it's advertising a summertime special edition at your local Dawoo/General Motors dealer.

Alan MaC

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mike2.5subaru

The new car seems to be very consistant finishing fifth & sixth regulary, somthing the old one didn't, but the new Focus was up there from day one. IMO its the branding that put most of us (other than farmers) on here, oh and the sound. Looking at the fans clothing at events you'd think Subaru were winning and Citroen were fifth & sixth.

abc

Well, I knew I was rising to a bait, but by "solid finish" I meant "finish, preferably without resort to Superally rules". That has nothing to do with other cars retiring and everything to do with getting plenty of data and the drivers having competitive time in the car.

burbling1

iTrader: (1)

You sant say its just the car

Rob_Impreza99

iTrader: (3)

In my opinion Ford havn`t got the greatest driver line up in the world but they are still getting very solid results because of how good and reliable the Focus is and it was virtually like that from day 1, i would say its around 90% car and 10% driver at this level.

As an example Sebastian Loeb wouldn`t have done much in last years Impreza as the car simply wasn`t upto the job, if you had put Loeb in this years impreza i doubt he would have done much better with a car that simply isn`t on the pace of a full rally like some have pointed out.

The car is way off at the min, i have no idea why but even a driver change at present wouldn`t change much. Personally i do think Subaru should freshen up the driver line up anyway as Atkinson is far too inconsistent and makes a lot of mistakes and Petter seems to have gone backwards in recent years albeit a lot of that is down the equipment he has had to work with.

A driver line up of something like Loeb (Tempt him with a big offer) and maybe one of the up and coming drivers as a team mate that could learn from Loeb just like Danny Sordo has.

vindaloo

Dunno if Loeb would go....

He seems pretty much the patriotic Frenchman.

The Trooper 1815

iTrader: (31)

The new car is incorporating the mods and rule changes of next seasons cars. These will level the playing field when the other manufactures put them into their cars. They must contain more engine parts from the normal factory cars, use less engines per season and abide by some new homologation rules.

Next year should see a difference.

By the way Rally GB is in October next year too!

scooby L

You'd have a better chance pulling an elephant from your *** than getting Loeb out of a French car.
especially when it's so damn quick...

They keep telling us the 2008 WRC car is still being developed, it's a better platform everyone agrees, so hopfully we'll have some solid results later in the season.

The Focus was awesome on it's debut... but I think Ford was as surprised as we were!

SirFozzalot

Germany is the first competitive rally for the new car on asphalt and you have to remember that Solberg has never been strong on asphalt and has only ever won once on asphalt (Corsica).

Having just returned from watching the cars in Germany I think they performed well and looked positvely more agile on the stages compared to the old car.

SirFozzalot

But that's all part of rallying, whats the point of setting blistering stage times but then breaking the car or crashing?


Not as big as Ford and Citroen.

You mean if he didn't crash his car

ReggieMY99

In the meanwhile lets all enjoy the classic and how it set everyone in place in the old days (reason i bought my impreza)

put a couple of 99/00 on the track today and trash the newages.. that should win subaru the title again sadly..

Enjoy the private with the red lipspoiler at the last half of the video.. can he drive? i rest my case..

here goes :

YouTube - Subaru Impreza WRC 1998

SirFozzalot

Burns won the world title in a bugeye, Solberg won the world title in a blobeye

Borat_Drives_A_Scooby

Here is the million dollar question, how long do you think it will take for the new shape impreza wrc to deliver its first win ? Do you think it will ever deliver a win ? From what i have seen so far the only win this car is capable of in the near future is if the top 4 cars don`t finish. I maybe talking out of my backside here but i just have no confidence in this new car in any, way, shape or form from that it will become an dominant car in the wrc in the future.

SirFozzalot

I understand where you are coming from I really do and I find it frustrating too. The Ford and Citroen are such great cars at the moment that I think it will be hard to compete but I also think it's a bit early to be completely writing them off. Citroen took a whole year out of competition to develop the C4 before returning to competition, Subaru are doing it mid-season!

This happens in motorsport though, just look at F1 and how different teams totally dominate whole seasons (remember how long Williams dominated F1, where are they now?), Subaru dominated WRC for some time in the past, then it was the turn of Citroen, now Ford are very strong. We will just have to wait and see if the Subaru develops over the remainder of the season and hope for the best.

Borat_Drives_A_Scooby

Its not so much the taking time out and developing a new car syndrome in my eyes as its more something doesn`t feel quite right with prodrive and the subaru world rally team, i think its since the Lapworth falling out thing along with Dave Richards not being so hands on as he was in the early days when Subaru had great success in the wrc.

I don`t know what it is about this new car but it just doesn`t feel or look like a possible dominant car of the future, if subaru wanted to go into the hatchback scene then they should have done that seperate away from rallying. I still think a shorter wheel base 2 door car is the way to go like the citroen, it looks far more nimble and seems to accelerate a lot quicker to the naked eye and in the wrc these days thats the way to go as rallying is more of a 3 day sprint in this era rather than a 5 day endurance test of car and driver. I maybe talking nonsense here with this point but who knows, time will tell.

SirFozzalot

The Prodrive/Subaru contract is up for renewal. I believe the current contract expires at the end of next season.

We will have to wait and see if it's renewed, maybe Prodrive will want to concentrate on F1 instead.

bioforger

iTrader: (1)

Ah that vid brings back fond memories, the cars were so much more sideways in those days, makes me think when watching the WRC now, it just isn't as exciting as it use to be

Borat_Drives_A_Scooby

It was proper rallying back then without the aid of things like advanced gearing on a paddle etc, modern rallying is a 3 day sprint these days and its becoming a bit like Formula 1 where its a procession and you know the winner will only come from one of the top 2 teams.

Dspeed

I wana know who the **** is building Loeb and co's cars. It cant be citron for god sake. Wish they still had to make a road car in at least the same configuration as the rally car.

Borat_Drives_A_Scooby

It is Citroen mate, here he is one of Loeb`s mechanics getting to work on Seb`s car for next year, Sebastian Loeb doesn`t know yet that the powers that be have asked Citroen to tone it down a bit to let Subaru catch up so Schhhhhhhhhh.

Alan MaC

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