matt_d

Hi, this is to anyone in the police force or with detailed knowledge of traffic laws.

Last friday evening I was at the front of a 3 lane queue of about 12-15 cars at a junction. The lights were red, and I heard a police car siren, then saw the car in my rear view mirror - it was in a side road and was blocked in by the queue of traffic. There were no cars crossing the junction, I looked to see if it was safe then decided to jump the light so that the queue could move forward and let the police car out. I accelerated in standard scoob fashion then drove off swiftly so that I got out of the way of the other cars and gave the police car the best chance to get out quickly. Anyway, as I was doing this I got flashed by a speed camera. I have a radar detector and I've driven that road several times so I knew it was there, but I thought it was more important to get away from the junction quickly so the other traffic & police could cross it quickly, so that is why I was above the limit. I was doing about 10mph above the speed limit, so nothing stupid.

My question is, what should I do about this? I have had a clean license since I started driving and am not too keen on getting a speeding ticket (which will cost me several hundred pounds a year extra in insurance costs). How does the law stand on exceeding the speed limit to get out of the way of emergency vehicles? Also, given that I had no way of getting the registration number of the police car (there were too many other cars in the way), is there any way I can prove that this is what happened? I did slow down after about 1/2 mile and took the number of a royal mail van which overtook me, but that is the only possible witness I'll have, assuming he saw/heard the police car and is willing to testify in court.

Is it better for me to wait until the ticket arrives, then reply in writing explaining the situation? Or should I call them up asap?
And if I do get a ticket, what steps should I take to challenge the decision in court (assuming I have a legal defence)?

Lastly, if it isn't possible for me to use the "emergency vehicle" defence, what are the pros and cons of refusing to say who was driving at the time? As I understand it, both speeding and refusing to give driver details are offences, so I would get fined either way. But I would rather pay a larger fine if I could avoid getting points on my license. If i refuse to say who was driving, what kind of fine would I expect, what is the maximum penalty, and will I get points on my license if I refuse to give details?

Thanks in advance.

Gaz555

That's a tough one eh ??!!
I'm not too sure about the laws, but if I was you I'd get down to the police station asap and explain the situation. Maybe they will see your side of the story but they might want you to prove it as well so it's probably good that you took the reg of that post office van.
If you do get the ticket through for speeding I'm not sure how the law stands now regarding not telling them who was driving, I'm sure that I read somewhere that you can't deny it anymore, wether that's true i don't know maybe someone else on the BB knows??? there's still some cases that have gone to court regarding the matter and a few have won!
I was in court a few months ago for 108mph in a 60 zone while racing another car, and I told my solicitor that I would rather pay a large fine like yourself than to get banned cause I was expecting a year ban, but I did lose my licence for 6 months and was fined £250, I think that it would all depend on how good your solicitor was and who was the judge that day, I was pretty lucky I think!
Hope you get it all sorted out mate!



[This message has been edited by Gaz555 (edited 17 January 2001).]

matt_d

Cheers. What i meant about not giving them details was that it might be impossible to endorse my license if they can't prove I was driving. I would be fined for failure to provide the details, but hopefully retain a clear license. I don't know how the law stands on this so hopefully someone can inform me or point to a URL I can check.

H

I think the legal view is that there is no exceptable reason to speed....

I would be ready for 6 months and a fine

Richard F

6months????

Not sure about that for 10mph over the limit. I think you'll be looking at the standard £40 plus 3 points. Whilst it's a p1sser, I can tell you that it should make no difference to your insurance as most companies will let you have one, maybe two, speeding tickets before the premium increases.

Stuart H

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Gaz555:
<B>I was in court a few months ago for 108mph in a 60 zone while racing another car....[/quote]

matt_d,

There are ways around this but first a few questions if I may:

a)Did the camera flash once or twice?
b)Was it a standard GATSO or was it one on a traffic light controlled junction?
c)Did the Police vehicle go through the camera as well?

If you were only 10mph over the posted limit and it was a speed enforcement GATSO I would guess you would be offered the FPN of £60.00 and 3 penalty points. The fine for failing to disclose details would be much larger and necessitate an appearance in court & the hire of a solicitor etc.

If you can pop the answers to those 3 questions up I should be able to point you in the right direction.

Cheers

S

DavidRB

Interesting question. I wonder what would happen if I crossed in front of a traffic light camera (setting it off in the process) to allow an emergency vehicle to pass?

Presumably having the exact (or near enough) time of the incident would help too when comparing the emergency vehicle's log?

I would be very miffed indeed if I ended up in trouble.

matt_d

1) I'm not 100% sure, but I think the camera flashed twice.
2) I think it was a standard gatso - I didn't get flashed as I broke the red light at the first junction. The camera that flashed me was near a set of lights further down the road (which were green) where I got flashed.
3) I'm not sure since there were literally 20 or 30 vehicles between me and the police car. The road was fairly congested behind me which is why I was speeding up (to allow some space to develop). The police car didn't catch up with me, so I assume it either stopped or left the road I was on. At the time I got flashed I could hear its siren behind me and I was fairly sure it was still on the same road either behind or amongst the traffic.

Hope that helps.

The "fail to disclose" option looks fairly complicated and time consuming - I am self-employed so court would be a major pain in the neck, so I think I'll forget that option. As for the ticket - I would be interested to know if there is a defence for trying to make room for/avoiding emergency vehicles. Or are you supposed to follow normal highway code rules, which in this case would have meant the police would have been stuck for a minute or so while the light was red? I just assumed it would be ok to jump the light and speed up to get out of the way of an emergency vehicle - does anyone know the legal position here?

fast bloke

Matt - you would probably be best to wait and see if you get any post from plod. Your excuse is starting to sound a bit lame when you say the police car didn't cath up. You should have had plenty of time to slow down. You are (well.. used to be) allowed to exceed the speed limit by 10% in the event of short emergency or evasive action, but most gatso's are set at 10%+2-3MPH, so you would probably get done even if you could show that the police car was on the same road.
On the bright side, I've been flashed loads of times, but I haven't had a FPN yet

Andy Porter

Hi Matt,

I'd only worry IF the ticket arrives.......
Andy P

Stuart H

1)Bugger
2)Sounds like an ordinary speed enforcement GATSO
3)This is where your argument may come unstuck. But anyway, you only need worry when/if the NIP turns up

Cheers

S