DJB

Totally agree.

Get the impression that they're running out of things to say, so they just pick faults. The overall tone of the recent test drive was very negative despite the fact that it is obvious from the spec that this is the best Impreza yet, if not the fastest. Fastest isn't always best.

D.

[Edited by DJB - 2/1/2002 7:54:49 PM]

Pooder

Whilst I am new to this forum, I am not new to the Impreza Turbo. I have owned one from new for 4 yrs now. I have a new WRX STi on order for a March/April delivery from Lancaster in Sevenoaks.
I have ordered the car blind, having never seen or driven one and am interested to hear form any of you who have run yours in about the performance. Have any of you thought of removing the catalytic converters?
There have been some excellent write ups in various mags, particularly EVO about the machine, but AutoCar really annoys me and has done for some time with their ridiculous comparison tests.
They have just put the STi up against a Porshe 911Turbo and surprise, surprise Tiff Needel (don't know how to spell it)that famous failed racing driver decides he likes the Porsche better.
The Porsche costs 89,000 v 26,000 for an STi.
Last week they described 4.9 secs to 60 as respectable but mainly due to traction and not grunt, how bloody stupid!!!! This car has the same torque output as a Ferrari 355.

SPANGEL

I read the article by Tiff Needell in Autocar and agree with you totally. He should have tested the cars in price order with the lowest priced first. I also thought the article in EVO was great as it was not a comparison of the cars but looked at each car individually. I will be buying the EVO magazine in future and passing on Autocar.

Pooder

Thanks Spangel glad someone agrees with me the whole Autocar tone recently has been anti STI

carl

Originally posted by SPANGEL:I figured this out about a year ago... Now I rely on Autosport for my weekly read, Evo monthly.

Pooder

Carl
What is it with autocar and the Scooby they said some really strange things about the STI handling when every other Mag is raving about it

melpaul2002

he did say its the best value sports saloon of the year, surely that offsets the price difference in the testing of the cars

Neil Smalley

Autocar do, do some odd things.
STI=Best Ever Impreza=4 stars
MY01
MY00
RB5 All get 5 stars

Go Figure..

Also when Skoda souped up an Octavia RS so that it had around 220Bhp and not 180 they did'nt use the results of a subsequent test, they use the one with the non standard car

I suspect, although cannot prove that Autocar have a 'it's new it must be better' attitude and that, in reality they should go for a proper road test system rather than what appears to be an adult version of top trumps.

Yorkie

Know what you mean about Autocar being off the mark. I have noticed how they have nit picked with the new Impreza since it arrived. They used to rave about Imprezas and issue 5 stars everytime one was tested since 1994. Suddenly they have a downer on them; they say "drinks fuel at a worrying rate" for the std WRX. Hang on a minute, the Lexus IS200 got a similar figure to the Impreza in their hands but they never mentioned it [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] I read EVO and take it as my magazine of choice for the enthusiast. After all it has all the old school of road testers on board (John Barker, Peter Tomalin, Richard Meaden et al) not some glorified newspaper journalists.

Squizz

Not only all the above points, but they suddenly think the Skoda Rapide was air-cooled...

What a fool I was lugging that metal radiator and all that water about for years, eh?



Can't even get the simplest facts correct. [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

carl

Originally posted by squizz:I think that's the crux of it. Facts often appear to be made up (particularly on 'scoop' articles), lots of computer-generated impressions of how things 'could' be, and multiple-page reviews of cars they haven't even driven. Evo started to do it (there was about four pages once on how a 'hot' Jaguar X-type might be developed, along the lines of "it'll probably be supercharged, because there isn't enough room to get a V8 in") but they appear to have got back on track. I think the essential difference is that Evo is (or should be) a magazine about driving rather than cars. If Autocar was a golf magazine it would be entirely about clubs, with little actual mention of what they feel like to play with

drumsterphil

iTrader: (1)

Autocar also takes a pop at Scooby drivers as well. Proof - check out the top 10 cars of 2001 article and read the last paragraph on the EVO vii review, totally unnecessary comment IMHO!

As I've said before - if it's not an EVO or 911 then Autocar doesn't like it!

DP.

justing

I read autoexpress every week instead of autocar as it is cheaper, and both magazines tend to cover the same subjects ,this week they pitted the sti against the clio v6 same money ish and they thought the sti was the best evolution yet ,the yet being the opreative word .

Pooder

Interesting now that against some very serios oposition it has been voted top drivers car of 2002 by Top Gear. Maybe the Autocar journos cant drive

Joseph

I completely agree.
I own the first STI 7 to be tested and each time they tested it they gave different figures and and cocked up the specs too.
One minute they love the brakes the next they don't.
Then they love the power and torque spread then it comes in too late.

One guy says he thinks the gear shift is spot on the other it's sloppy.

One report says the brake discs are 330mm at the front another 304mm at the front.

ALL THESE REPORTS WHERE OF OR ON THE SAME CAR (MINE).

STRANGE DON'T YOU THINK!?

I don't think they have been very kind to the STI. In fact far more critical than they have been on the EVO.

As you have rightly mentioned they always seem to ut it up against cars of much more cost and power.

Then they say that the Scoob is a much better all round car and better made than the Evo but end up by saying they prefer the latter.

Whilst I am sure the Evo is a fabulous car I can not see where it seems to be so superior to the STI. If all roads where straight then power would be the only issue but the scoob handles that power very well and more predictably on all sorts of roads and conditions.

The difference wouldn't and couldn't be that great between the two.

Pound for pound these have to be the best cars on the market, bar none. It's just a question of which style and colour you prefer.

Similar to the on going battles between say BMW and Merc or Ford and Vauxhal.

J.

sasman

Saw that today 4.9 RESPECTABLE "excuse me" IDIOTS.

RPG7

The fact that they pitted the Sti7 against a 911 Turbo is about the best compliment any car can get.Obviously anyone would go 911 route if $$$ allowed and nobody would even expect the Sti to compete.I think that using a 911 turbo shows that they found it difficult to find a same price range car.The STi keeps very GOOD company.

Pooder

Joseph
I have driven an EVO 7 the car is very fast and capable but I do a lot of driving, I could not live with the ride. Its like a mobile roller skate. I hear the ride is good on the STI.

You where brave letting yhe hacks drive your car

clubby

Personally I think Tiff Needel has been something of a joke for a long time now. Some of the stuff he says about handling is ridiculous.
I recall the BMW (Z3 or similar) sports hairdresser car winning "best handling car" on Top Gear or some other programme last year featuring Mr Needel last year. Given the weather conditions in this country giving that award to a rear wheel drive car is frankly laughable.
I think two things we have to remember - Firstly who supplies the free company cars to the broadcasting company creating these programmes. I bet it's not Subaru or Mitsubishi, who between them are making the best handling cars around at this time.

I thing the Impreza is now becoming bad news for some sections of the motoring press. What more can they say about it, it's all been said before. I think this car will put some motoring/motorsport journalists out of work. Reports saying "Yes the Impreza is still the best value sports package available in the £20,000 - £30,000 bracket, with superb even better handling than before and performance rivalling more expensive machinery" - will not sell car magazines.

There has to be an angle for them, it has to be worse or it's so much harder for them to write about now. If it's not worse they'll pretend it is, because it will sell magazines, same as negative stuff always sells newspapers. Regardless whether the story is based on fact or otherwise.

Just my own humble opinion is all.

Hoppy

Clubby, you're wrong, mate

While there is no excuse for getting 'facts' wrong (eg size of discs etc) what this thread is really debating is the subjective opinions of various journalist road testers. And they often have differing views. Long may it continue. That's the name of the game.

There are no free company cars given to journalists in any media. I work for one of the biggest automotive magazine publishing companies and haven't seen one yet. Bribery is not in anybody's interests. There are long-term test cars - usually for six months or sometimes a year. And Subaru supply these cars, as do almost all other manufacturers.

And as for negative reporting selling magazines, that's absolute rubbish. Magazines are not newspapers. If anything, there is strong pressure to say good/positive things in order to keep the manufacturers happy and attract advertising. That it is resisted in the interests of fair play should surely be applauded.

No offence intended. Just a few 'facts' IMHO !

Richard.

[Edited by Hoppy - 2/2/2002 2:08:24 PM]

Pooder

So the first real oposition to this comes from someone in the industry-------Funny that. You guys in the industry better wake up and smell the coffee as judging by what is said hear the only mag we will all buy is EVO

nigelward

Yeah I must admit that Evo mag has been a far better read over the last few months than AutoCar, although the Rally Gods article a week ago was pretty good.

I'm surprised Tiff went for the Porker and not the TVR, due to his bias for RWD over everything else.

A dull point I know, but if I remember correctly in the summing up of the long term WRX, Autocar complained about the 7,500 mile intervals.

I have yet to see too much mentioned about the 4,500 mile service intervals for the Evo VII.

There doesn't seem to be that much consistency in the reporting, at least they mention the silly sized petrol tank.

Carlos The Jackel

LOL - The artical is a comparason between different values of cars and how much fun they are for the money! God the Scoob gets a wee bit of stick and you throw the toys out of the pram! The artical is not bad but its not in-depth at all, and no-where near Evo std. Try reading the artical again and understand what its about first! But the conclusion is different depending on how much cash you've got!! And Tiff Needell has lots!!

robman

And don't forget why you own the car you do - it's not just about the cash. If you drive around anywhere outside of Chelsea or Guildford in a 911 you tend to find people saying things other than, "Gosh my friend, what a nice car. I really respect you and think I shall give it a little polish for you as I walk by."

Not saying that you shouldn't buy a 911 if you want, nor that they are not mighty fine cars (which they undoubtedly are) but it is just plain wrong to assume that we all buy a Scoob because we cannot afford a 911.

Disclaimer: I cannot afford a 911. But even if I could, I wouldn't. I love wagons, and the Scoob is about as good as it gets.

Joseph

I will second that Robman.

I have been thinking of buying a more expensive car (mainly for image and status than anything else) but I do like to drive and the STI give me the same, if not maore driving pleasure than a 911 Turbo at a third of the cost and that really makes me grin when I drive passed on or any other car in that bracket.

It shows frugalness wouldn't you say.

Anyway I too am in publishing and will say that there are times when knocking one car is more apropriate than times and the Journos know this.

If journos weren't at least a little confrontational or picky then the mags would be boring and the Journos' reputation bland.

This they put down to honesty. It is sometimes easier to criticise than to praise or complement. Just look at some of the threads on this site.
J.

elondan

What do expect from a magazine that lets an Impreza hater (he says so) test the STI?!
In 23 January issue Autocar had an article called "Evolution of the species" by Steve Sutcliffe.
in that article he tests the new STI and he writes the following:
"Choosing between Evo and Impreza has become a bit like the Blur versus Oasis battle the tabloids dreamt up a few years back. Inadvertenly you find yourself coming down firmly in one camp or the other and enp up feeling entirely irrataional dislike for the 'opposition' as a resault. I'm ashamed to admit that I'm a bit like this with Imprezas in that I simply prefer the Evo way of life..."

robman

I've also been a writer for magazines for nearly seven years, looking at a totally different kind of product though. Sometimes when reviewing you just want to get an angle on something and don't always pick up on every positive nuance that doesn't add much to the overall article. Also the editor can often chop and change to give it a bit more punch, so if the ed thinks it is possibly a negative review, before you know it you end up sounding like an evil S.O.B who hates the thing!

Don't believe everything you read...

[Edited by robman - 2/3/2002 9:08:52 AM]

golfturbo

He wasn't comparing the cars directly
and if you read further on they do slag off the 4500 service intervals and a mitsubishi dealer.....
They had 2 £500+ service bills in the space a month
for virtually nothing except and oil and plugs change and getting some pads put on (i think)



[Edited by golfturbo - 2/4/2002 1:04:24 PM]