the_dr38

Hi guys, after much thought i have decided to sell my XR2 and upgrade to something with a bit more power. I would like to spend around the 8K mark and have been looking at various TT'2 (the 225) EVO's and of course Imprezzas on the web. There seem to be So many variations of Imprezza, STi's, WRX's, pro-drives, P1's. Basically i would like to get one with low mileage. I know nothing really about these cars other than the ones ive been in i loved. The problem is that i do around 80 miles a day on the M25 which means i am often stuck in traffic, when i told the people on the EVO forum this they said that EVO was the wrong car and has to be serviced every 4,500 miles therefore would be a bad choice. The TT would cope well with this type of journey plus they are very comfy inside. The Imprezzas look quite basic inside but im sure they are a lot quicker than a TT. How would the 2 compare in terms of handling and for 8K what differences in performance could I expect to see? Basically i would like some general information about them and what would you go for in this price range?

Many thanks

L.Dudley

El Cat

the TT is a sack of wee!!
my mates 1.8 8valve golF GTI mark two was quicker than a 225bhp model, all it had was a full stainless exhaust, panel filter and kent cam
plus they are girls cars and all ur mates will rip it out of u for having one
EVO's are a lot more expensive to service( well thats what my mate says when he is always forking out loads on servicing on his)
GET THE SCOOBY
you will notregret it and the boxer rumble just does not have anything else that can compete with it in the world!

dnc

Would argue that impreza is not the car for M25 traffic jams. Your budget would see an 03 WRX?, poss v early new-age STi with higher milage? Could get a decent type r for that money, tho certainly not what you'd call a motorway muncher.

Think you may need to think again?

dnc

the_dr38

Is the sti-i the fastest model, what's the difference between this and the WRX? There are plenty of 02/03 plate sti's around on autotrader for around the 8K mark with anything from 34,000 miles up to 60+. Only thing with Imprezas is the interior is quite basic. But I suppose the performance, looks and sound make up for this. Is an sti as quick as say an EVO 7? I'm not actually too bothered about the M25 as there are other ways I can go plus I dont really want to have a car just for the weekend, I want a car I can drive every day. Def dont want a type-R, they dont do it for me.

crf450r

iTrader: (1)

i cant find an 03 sti antwhere for 8k let me know where there is one please,,
also when your tired of seeing cars that are not what they seem you might start to look elsewhere!!!!!!!
i have around 11k and cant find the one i want

Blueblaster

Thank God I'm here! Let's cut to the chase. Assuming you do 80 miles a day on the M25 for 48 weeks a year then you're going to do 19,200 commuting miles a year. Let's add another 5,800 non-work miles to give a total of 25,000. At a generous 25mpg and £5 per gallon you're looking at £5000 on fuel. Road tax next year will be £410. You're going to need 2 services which will be a minimum of £500 and insurance will probably be something like double that of your Fiesta. On top of that you're going to need a least one set of tyres per year at £500 and a set of pads all round costing something like £200. You'll probably also go through a set of discs and require at least one set of new shocks all round for which we could budget another £500. So totting all that up comes to an annual running cost of (fanfare) £7110 excluding insurance. Now if we put that into perspective it is going to cost you the same amount to run it EACH YEAR as it is going to cost to buy it.

Get yourself something else!

Hope that helps

Blueblaster

Without wishing to sound confrontational...are you prepared to take a bet on that statement? I have cash waiting for anyone who is prepared to offer odds on an 8V 1.8 Golf GTI with those mods being slower than a 225bhp TT. This is based on the assumption that each car weighs the same as it did the day it left the factory.

fivetide

iTrader: (1)

Bit sour - how do you know he can't afford it??

I've got an 03 WRX and it is a good car. I do a 60 mile commute each day through standing traffic and motorway and the car is spot on. I get 300 miles to a tank so 28/29mpg. Not great but not a disaster for the performance either.

Servicing isn't the cheapest but i had both the biggies done for £300 Cambelt at local Subaru MAin Dealer and then 60k at local specialist for £27 all in.

I do need brakes though (comning for £300 again) and i've monstered a set of tyres over 20,000 miles so set of those coming at £70 a corner.

Compared with the evo at 45000 for servicing (and each one a major service) you are laughing.

You will probably want to modify it a bit though, i did and ended up getting a remap at £500 to really let the potential of the car through. That said, if you go for a bugeye model youm might be able to find one that has been sensibly modified and still see good mpg (mine still does 28mpg even after the map)

If you want opinions on any specific cars you've seen post up a link and i'm sure people will be happy to comment.

5t.

El Cat

unfortunately said golf is now in the breakers yard in the sky, she eventually had more mods done such as tsr spec head, that much torque it used to spin in 3rd gear, seen it embarrass many cars on the road! only problem was it used to max out at 120mph due to the gearbox ratios! eventually put a passat diesel boxs in it, lasted a month and shot most of it out of the side casing!! ther was no stripping out on the golf either just a set of 15 inch split rims and a front splitter the only external mods!

Blueblaster

Sour maybe, but I never said he couldn't afford it. However, it's seriously odds-on that someone with an 8 grand budget won't be able to afford annual running costs of a further 8 grand. And it looks like fuel is probably going to hit £1.50 per litre given the forecasts for oil prices so my fuel estimate is probably conservative.

FWIW I think it is necessary for my posts to be blunt and to the point because so many other members are going to use evocative language to bolster the pro-Subaru case. This is especially true in this case where this chap is going to see his running costs at least double at a time when he is either going to empty his savings account or take out a big loan.

ATB

Edited to say, I am happy to be corrected if someone would like to point out any mistakes in my STI running costs. I thought I was being conservative.

fivetide

iTrader: (1)

No fear chap, Out for a SIDC run the other week and couldn't believe how low some people's mpg was. However, in my experience of my own car i get 28mpg no problem so not aqll doom and gloom. I can't afford a more expensive car but i can afford to run this one to work and back 300 miles @ £50 and then servicing on top. £500 services are for those being ripped off by their dealer!

My point is it is easy doable but you are right to point out things like the higher tax coming in and potentially the higher insurance over his other choices.

With all that in mind, if it makes sense then go for it.

5t.

Blueblaster

5t, I can see what you are trying to say, I was just trying to make my reply directly applicable to the original poster. I see you live in Scotland and will therefore enjoy slightly less crowded roads than the rush hour M25. I think he'll be lucky to get 28mpg. I know 20-22mpg doesn't look that different to 28mpg but when you multiply it by the number of miles this chap is doing it really adds up. Also, when I said £500 for servicing I was anticipating 2 services per year at £250 each.

All in all this guy is going to be changing from a car with little or no finance and low running costs to a car which will either make a big dent in his savings or require finance and have probably the highest running costs of any car he could choose save the Evo. An £8k loan costs about £250 per month over 3 years which when added to £666 running costs (£8000/12) means £916 per month to run the Scoob. That's the same as the repayments on a £180k mortgage!

I am not anti-Scoob. In fact if I lived where you do and did not also enjoy the delights of the M25 on a regular basis I may even still have one. I just want this chap to know exactly what he is letting himself in for.

bighead

iTrader: (1)

depends what he want from the car really ........if its for fun as well as commuting ,a STi or a classic Type-R , a P1 if he can stretch abit more on the funds wise,
on the other hand if he want a car for commuting just buy yr average rep mobile

we all know which one we would buy

the_dr38

Wow, thanks for all the replies. Some really strong opinions there. I should explain, I prob only work about 8 months of the year and 80 miles a day is worst case although every day at the moment and for the next 2 months. I have posted a link to an autotrader search, if u go to keywords and type in sti then lots seem to come up or could these just be imposters trying to sell their non sti models??? Anyways what are the performance differences between the wrx/sti/P1?

Cheers

L.Dudley

P.S I dont mind spending a bit more than 8K if i REALLY have to.....

dnc

As earlier poster said, you will not get an 03 STi for 8K unless it is cat D or whatever, pretty certain you wont get an 02 either. Good compromise for you might be a WRX PPP (c 5 secs 0-60), relatively comfortable for M-way journeys and you should get an 03 for 8Kish.

STi has better suspension, brakes, lsd (f and r), stronger, more tunable engine as std than the wrx. STi is pretty focused whereas WRX is a better all rounder (though there are many WRXs that are highly tuned and seriously quick). The P1 is a classic shape limited edition 2-door coupe that is very highly rated - quick and very good on uk roads.

Performance wise as std P1>STi>WRX (assuming STi and WRX are newage models). If you go for the STi, the PPP or similar package will have it equal or quicker than std P1. Could go on for ages tbh mate........there are so many options for you
dnc

Blueblaster

Seems like my warnings are falling on deaf ears. Never mind, it's a free country and you won't be the first or that last to ignore my advice on this forum. Just one final suggestion that I often make. It doesn't look like you are about to rush into a purchase so for the next month or two when you spend any money on your car take the same amount of money out of your current account and put it in a jar or a high interest savings account. That will give you some idea of what the extra costs FEEL like and even then you're going to have to add the finance payments or start building up your savings again. So many people think they can afford to run one, but don't realise that the costs are constant and inescapable. Don't worry, I won't say I told you so.

the_dr38

Finance payments? Who said anything about finance. I think you seem to have assumed I cant afford to have an Imprezza due to the amount i first said i wanted to spend. I know this car is not going to be cheap to run. I dont really feel the need to have a jar to put money into to gauge how expensive running it is going to be either.

Anyway some useful info never the less, thanks guys

Blueblaster

Only trying to help. If you just wanted a load of positive replies from the Scoobynet "Yes" men then you should have said so. My comments were proportionate and valid given you are currently driving an ancient old Fiesta and were worried about the running costs of an Evo. Go ahead and rack up a load of miles in an STI, I really couldn't give a toss, it'll be your money going up in smoke on a congested M25.

the_dr38

Are you for real? Is this the type of advice given here? Maybe I shouldnt get an impreza because it makes people really bitter? Great advert for this forum

Flaps

iTrader: (1)

Blue, I think what you were saying is spot on. The amount of times someone on here sells up because they can't afford to run it surprises me. Wasn't there someone a while back who lasted about a month?

I worked out recently that to change mine for an STI would cost an extra £200 per month (tax, petrol and insurance). I wasn't prepared to do that for an extra 40hp.

JimmyBFC

Ive always said, unless you have money to burn, the Impreza or other performance cars alike, are best suited to runs out and week-end use.

I know there will be lots of people jumping down my throat at those comments but I just wouldn't want to use a car with the performance of an Impreza to do 80 mile a day on the motorway.

Im in no way assuming you can't afford to run one and do 80 mile per day, im just saying let common sense prevail, buy something with a great MPG and use the rest top fund something to have fun in.

Plenty on here use them daily, and are probably very happy doing so, but obviously thats just my take on it.

Just for the record, i don't think ppl are being pessimistic or anti Subaru, its just that the costs are very real, your going to be making a good few stops per week at the filling station, it might not be what you want to hear but its the truth, Ive owned 2 upto now so I feel I can vouch for the running costs and bills that mount up, plus you might not be happy with an sti, which will then lead to you wanting to uprate and tune everythign (which is also very, very real and WILL happen)

Just my 2 penneth though bud.

RJM25R

iTrader: (1)

I've got my impreza as a second car for weekends and run outs. I'm lucky enough to have a company car (VW Eos 2.0 TDI Sport :-0) and do around 20,000 miles a year, 3,000 in the scoob. I couldn't live with the impreza like I do my 46mpg diesel, knowing that it's costing me a fiver to drive 20 miles...... BUT it makes perfect sense as a fun car. Gordon Brown can F8CK OFF! I for one (lifelong labour supporter and former party member) will not be voting for that f8ckwit. . . . . . . .

JimmyBFC

Im the same mate, the works van suffices for running errands and the Scoob comes out at week-ends, very rarely more than 2-3 times per week unless im off work.

Gilesdwrc

Right!!

I don't have an STI just a 2l sport but, i find it great for the daily commute, 15m a day e/w on A roads, B roads, & M'way. LOVE IT!! not sure it'd be right for the M25 though and the in-sewer-ants for an sti in that London will probably render you spechless. BUT! If you want it and it wont rob you of your life, go for it, get a blob WRX to start and then work on up.

Good luck

bmfcrash

iTrader: (14)

I run a classic STI, Costs pretty much as explained and I use it as my daily yoke. Main difference for me is the milage covered to work (8 miles each way). No Motorways or even mainroads and love every morning when driving to work. That said when I need to go anywhere in it, usual to a race meet of some description (hillclimbs/santa pod) then the car is not very forgiving or 'fun' to use on a major road. Gearing to short, 3" 5zigen decat, suspension and general ride harsh. UK or WRX would be better suited for longer runs. Not cheap to run by any means, but you already knew that. Get one and you will love it, if it means you have to miss out on a night on the pi$$ now and then so be it !!!.

the_dr38

Well that does seem to be the general feeling. I could be sensible and get an impreza for weekend use only but then i still want something newer and more reliable than my fiesta to go to work in which means getting 2 new cars. I can afford to run an impreza to work but my other question is how reliable would it be when doing these sorts of miles? Remember though it wouldn't be all year round.

bmfcrash

iTrader: (14)

If you dont drive it like you stole it all the time, they are no more unreliable than alot of cars out there. Plenty to go wrong on one hand, but on the other there are plenty of places around the country that will make you smile again.
I wouldnt say trouble free motoring by any stretch, but a good one will eat all the miles you throw at it provided it is looked after. There will be many highs and a few lows thrown in for good measure. Depends what it is you are after, a reliable oil burner or german plain jane just doesnt do it for me though, a trade off only you can decide on.

JimmyBFC

Id think a scooby will drive forever if you keep it well kept, serviced, oil change between servcies, every 5k or so, and also keep it under that 3k rev limit (when communting to work) mine will do a steady 80mph just on 3k revs if needs be, obviously anything over 3k and your running on boost and p1ssing out petrol.

If your going to be doing those miles, then really take your time picking one out, and really get stuck in when looking at one, rear shocks and knocking is very common on some newages, especially sti's - its not a major problem, and can be sorted, but just be wary.

the_dr38

Great, and may be a stupid question but what do you mean by cat D sti?

jaytc2003

iTrader: (1)

shocks arent a yearly replaceable item, and neither are discs. Tyres and pads maybe but depends on how its driven. If the original poster can use spanners then there is no reason he cannot service it himself.

Agree with you being a bit conservative on the fuel cost though