sandyRS16i

iTrader: (13)

Right folks, this would be funny if it wasn’t so pathetic and serious. Forgive me right now cos this is a bit of a long post, but please read, I’d like opinions and feedback from fellow owners.


Right, back in October I was stopped by Northern Constabulary (Inverness police) for having an excessively loud exhaust. (this is the 6th time in 2 years, I don’t even live there any longer I only return 1 or 2 times a month to see family). The car currently has a Scooby World center section and a Ninja backbox. The car is an Impreza STI V5 and is still running the standard Subaru downpipe, thus the exhaust is fitted as per manufacturer guidelines for use. The exhaust system itself is in good condition, with no damage or faults whatsoever. The car is regularly MOT’d and passes without any issues at all.


The basis for being stopped is that I was told its illegal to replace a vehicle exhaust system with one which is designed to increase noise output. The section in the Road Traffic act that I was quoted is Section 42 (b) and the Road Vehicle Construction and Use Act 1986, citing Regulation 54, Sections 41 (a) and 41 (b). The standard format for this is to produce a fixed penalty notice of £30, however as I understand that I have not broken any law, I have refused to pay, hence the escalation to a court date. (paying a fine would be an admission of guilt in my opinion, but max fine is now 2.5k)


The basis of the case is centred on it being illegal to modify any exhaust to increase noise or alter the flow path of exhaust gases (this I understand relates to the alteration of baffles, exhaust construction etc). When I argued the case that I have not modified an exhaust I had in fact replaced the OE part with an aftermarket item, I am informed that the law also covers this as illegal, specifically if the aftermarket item is designed to increase the noise output from said vehicle. (However I did try to argue that items such as Kwik-fit etc are also non-OE so should be prosecutable, without any success)


The basis of the argument is that having undertaken noise testing of the exhaust (the validity of said practise is in question) they have obtained readings at 2000 and 4000 rpm (again I am investigating if this is correct). This is then compared with the outputs the police allegedly have recorded from a standard (MY03 WRX STI (UKDM)) (again these are issues of contention here). The readings they have provided are produced below.



(MY99 STI V5) output in (dB)

2000rpm = 92.9
4000rpm = 99.4

MY 03 WRX STI output (dB)

2000 rpm =75.5
4000 rpm =81.7

So basically because my car is louder than there figures then its got an illegal exhaust, reasoning with the police is/was a waste of time I am of course seeking legal advice on its matter, but would welcome accurate info from tuners/suppliers/ lawyers/ coppers on here.


Information I’m trying to obtain includes

• ·The specification differences in engine and build that mean an Import MY99 STI cannot be compared to a UK MY03.

• ·What are the SVA requirements for noise at test. I think its 2/3rds max rpm and limit is 102dB can anyone confirm and the distances criteria for recording.

• ·Been looking on the Home Office site relating to approval of the sound equipment used, I can only find GATSO and speeding equipment, anyone know about sound equipment?

• ·Any other info or avenues that may be of use to give to my solicitor, I want to make sure I win and show the coppers for being the highly inept individuals they are.

Thanks in advance and sorry its such a long yarn

bluenose172

iTrader: (2)

I'm sorry I can't help, but this isn't the first time Inverness Police have done this, did someone with a PPP exhaust not have the same problem with them?

The Trooper 1815

iTrader: (31)

Yep. Do a search. Prodrive even took the car away and their lawyers sorted it out.

The Trooper 1815

iTrader: (31)

https://www.scoobynet.com/scoobynet-...l-exhaust.html

GC8

Do Inverness Police have any PPPd Traffic cars?

T5NYW

iTrader: (4)

Perhaps use a different Tack

1) Exhaust which was fitted when legally SVA Tested and Imported was replaced due to "leaking/rotten" and no increase in noise, you have changed like for like.


At trackdays they normally test 1 metre away at a 45 degree angle from exhaust Then to be fair 99.4db at 4000rpm then is quite loud and fair IMHO

but if the reading is taken with the stuck up the exhaust pipe then thats not loud at all. IIRC "noise readings" are never taken directly at source.

If you test an exhaust and move it varying distances and angles from the exhaust you WILL get very different reading. If there is no guide lines on how readings are obtained borrow a meter and video tape yourself replicated the test. You can prove you can get your care to Pass.

Try the "noise abatement Society" see if they have guide lines.

Tony

sandyRS16i

iTrader: (13)

The process used is to position the equipment 50cm from the exhaust and in direct line of gasses (so gets plenty low frequency resonance effects and gas buffeting), they also interpert the 45° as being they tilt the meter at 45°, not the angle of rotation with respect to the exhaust location.

This is one point I'm trying to work on, however I am going to contact VOSA to find out the testing requirements they use.

Unfortunately the previous cases always seem to end up with the accused paying up, thats what happened in the previous thread and with others I know. I refuse to pay as IMO thats an admission of guilt.

The Trooper 1815

iTrader: (31)

Just a pointer, the officer should be qualified in the use of the equipment and any equipment should be approved by the HO(hehe makes me laugh every time). Furthermore, the equipment should be have a test cerificate with it to say that it was servicable, it had been calibrated on ***** date, as these items can be knocked about abit. Non-Compliance of the above could be classed as incorrect proceedure.

Copied quote from the Illegal Exhaust Thread.

sandyRS16i

iTrader: (13)

Yeah I have already sent an email to the HO for a list of approved sound equipment as I couldn't find it listed on their site

At the time I asked for calibration certificates and an approved method statement for use also the officer qualifications for the equipment. I was politely informed "you will see that when you go to court'

what would scooby do

@99db I'm surprised they haven't seized the car and crushed it..

Mifo

iTrader: (10)

My main argument to them would be :

If it passes an MOT test the car is fully legal to drive on public roads!!


the car should also have to be compared to the exact same one as yours not a 2003 car, manufacturers obviously would have made changes!


If they do manage to win this case they will undermine the whole MOT set up, being that a non street legal car can pass a MOT!!

good luck with it

DCR59

The MSA Blue Book states that for "Road Rallies" (forget track day limits - your not on a track) the maximum db is 102 at 5000 RPM, taken by a reading at 0.5m and at a 45deg angle from the exhaust tip.

Now a Road Rally is an MSA approved event held on open roads.

Now someone somewhere has come up with this figure, and given that the MSA is the governing body of all UK motorsport, It's probably correct.


I hope that helps, Good luck.

Dave

nooobyscoooby

The police/prosecution are obliged to show you their case just as they are entitled to see your. Witholding relevant inofrmation does not allow you to prepare your case and I'm sure the judge would agree.

But I must say, all this over a £30 ticket is over the top: you should have taken the ticket and paid it. The point of principles is to know when not to stick to them!

speedking

MOT is only valid at the time it was carried out. You could easily have changed the exhaust later. I have heard of people replacing cats, legal plates etc., just for the test, then removing them again therefore I would not even think about that line of argument.

The law, to anyoine sensible, relates to making holes, removing silencers etc., to make an exhaust louder, not purchasing an aftermarket unit which is louder.

Good luck.

T5NYW

iTrader: (4)

You are right they are measuring exhaust gasses hitting the Mic and NOT the sound from the exhaust. This is WHY it should be at 45° to the exhaust

"In accordance with the ISO 5130 standard, the microphone should be positioned 0.5m from the exhaust outlet at an angle of 45°."



Making Vehicle Noise Measurements Using the CR261S

complete numpities IMHO They ought to stand directly behind a Jet with afterburner on

Tony

Other places of interest

Cirrus Research plc Sound Level Meters&Noise Dosemeters

http://www.cirrusresearch.co.uk/pdf_..._en_001_ds.pdf

sandyRS16i

iTrader: (13)

Yeah, perhaps, but easy to say when your not from the area and not hounded by the local cops. In 2 years I have had 6 tickets and only occasionally visit the place to see family and friends (once a month maybe).

I have been stopped on dual carriage ways which pass north not even near the town (both day and night), they stopped outside a bank once to wait for me to exit and ticket my car........I pay plenty in road/fuel tax and taxes on salary and purchase, im not paying an extra payment for driving........its like a communist corupt police state lol

sandyRS16i

iTrader: (13)

Thats brilliant info there, i shall dig out more on the SO standard today

pslewis

I wish you all the best, but, if you just visit a couple of times a month wouldn't it be worth your while fitting your car with a bung whilst in the area?

After the 6th ticket surely you would have thought that a bung would be cheaper?

Also, have you paid the previous 5 tickets? If you have you may have allready admitted guilt simply due to the fact that you paid the previous fines - or is it that you haven't paid any?

sandyRS16i

iTrader: (13)

No i havent paid the fines, fortunately all have expired and passed the 6 month period in which they can be taken to court.

If the exhaust was genuinely noisy then I would get a bung, however this is not the case, if you place your ear at exhaust level then yes as with any vehicle it will be loud. But i cant see that helping as they have issued fines for PPP and STI backboxes as well. When i asked what i could fit I was informed only the backbox from a UK car with the 2 small exits is suitable (thats a classic UK turbo item), anything else and I will get stopped any time they see me, or will be checking my car anywhere I park it.

Additionally, Im not some boy racer who spends his wknds driving round city centers, Im a late 20's qualified and chartered analysis engineer who just has an interest in cars

T5NYW

iTrader: (4)

They probably wont take this to court either because it could make other prossecutions unsafe. So possible high losses with little gain

a long time ago, I had a "littering" offence, I contested as although i did drop it I did pick it back up had 3 court dates but each time officer never turned up (but I HAD to) in the end took the £20 fine as was losing more having time off work. with a VERY young family/morgage and new job after 12months redundacy money meant more than pricincipals

Anyway best of luck

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

I'd be looking very carefully at the legality of them comparing the exhaust of an STi5 import, with that of an 03 UK spec car too.

I can't imagine that it's allowed.

HOWEVER: Dunno what the system is in Sweaty sock land, but here in England, you could expect to be bent over and reamed in a magistrates court, and have to appeal it to crown court.

Alcazar

Brun

Marx Mcrae

iTrader: (4)

So if your not aloud to change the OE exhaust, then how can so many companys make the systems in the first place if they know that there are illegal. When you buy these systems there is nothing on them or written down anywhere that says that they are not for road use!

How does the Pagani Zonda get on then, or a Harley motorbike??

Prasius

iTrader: (1)

They are stock exhausts - same as TVR's, I've had my STI with a Blitz Nur Spec R running next to Cerbera and you couldn't even hear my car!

Out of interest, is it different/same coppers doing this? As I know quiet a few who wouldn't even bother to look at such a thing as they'd "rather be catching real *******" (their words )

WRX-DAN

has anyone had problems with exhaust noise in the south of england in hampshire?

i have a blitz bur spec system on mine straight through which is very load! but i wont worry bout it unless its a common thing to get shagged for by rip off britton lol

Aaron1978

iTrader: (12)

i see where your coming from but he could always take it back with police present to prove it passes ok, and then they could retest it. this of course only proves it passes mot, not the point their arguing (which in my opinion is bull)

merlin24

iTrader: (1)

Might be worth getting a copy of "Motor Vehicle - Construction and Use Regulations" from HMSO or Dept of Transport.
That should tell you for sure.

Mick

DannyBoy007

iTrader: (7)

Surly they can't test a 99 car and compare this to a 2003 car, the exhausts are different, baring in mind the newer car has to meet stricter emissions so therefor is going to quiter as there is an extra cat for starters, they are also of a different length design, extra baffles ETC.

Do they compare a 1986 BMW 3 series and compare this to 2008 3 Series???? I think not.

If they are going to issue an ticket they must compare like for like, so at the very least a 99 ukcar

GlesgaKiss

I'm not being very helpfull here, but...are the inverness police just basically a bunch of c*nts?? Obviously nothing better to do than check out exhausts all day.

Alan

andythejock01wrx

Pete, have you ever been been stopped by the police re your Ninja ? Is it particularly noisy ? (I have the Prodrive BB but decatted apart from a Ninja sportscar downpipe).