Iain McLaren

Hi,

My dad bought a Mk3 Impreza WRX about a year ago, and had the optional performance pack added to it.

He was stopped recently in Inverness by police, who proceeded to perform a noise test on his exhaust (the performance-pack one). They declared that it was illegal and issued him with a £30 fixed penalty.

He was somewhat incensed by this and wrote to the Chief Constable to complain, citing that the exhaust was an official Subaru part which was EU certifed by the manufacturer.

They wrote back, basically sticking to their guns. The exact 'crime' that they are charging him with is under the Antisocial Behaviour (Scotland) Act of 2004. It states that "every exhaust system and silencer .... shall not, after the date of manufacture, be altered so as to increase the noise made by the escape of exhaust gases."

So, according to them, having anything other than the standard WRX exhaust makes your car illegal. With this in mind they've been stopping and fining most of the Impreza drivers in the Highlands (along with some boy-racers with 'modified' hatchbacks).

Does anyone have any suggestion what he should do in relation to his 'crime'???

Cheers,

Iain

jjones

is anyonther part of the exhaust system modified (e.g. decat)?

on motorbikes the whole system needs to be EU (or kite) marked with appropriate stamp or they throw the book at you. when they stopped me (on bike) the onus was put on me to prove it was legal (i.e. find and point out kite mark) rather than the ****stable to prove it was illegal. not quite "innocent until proven guilty" in my book.

HOWY

I thought you could only be done if the noise exceeded certain decibel limits and was nothing to do with what type it was unless of course they can prove you have modified your car and it is no longer covered by your insurance!

WH03JAM

What will these ***** think of next!?!

Iain McLaren

The sound test (performed round the back of a garage somewhere, in the dark - not exactly scientific IMO) gave a max reading of 88.7dB.

They say this is enough proof of guilt because it's more than the level produced by a standard WRX exhaust @ 79.0dB

Iain McLaren

Errrm...I believe that one CAT is removed when the p/pack is installed, and the rear box is changed...

scoobimax

If this is Scottish law I would suggets a move to south of the border
<flamesuit zipped up tight>

GC8

Then it would be 8 times as loud as the standard fit exhaust (82dB-double, 85dB-double that, 88dB-double it again); which is bollocks. How was it tested? Some fat monkey revving the car whilst the other one stuck a cheap noise meter into the tail pipe? If this wasnt so serious it would be a joke. A test like this is worthless. How loud would the car be if these figures were accurate?

Simon

Trashman

Suggest it is probably worth PPM'ing Mike Wood on here and ask if he has come across this before. We've had the noise level debate many times, but I think this is the first time someone has picked up a FPN for a PPP exhaust.

SirFozzalot

Agreed, I would definitely have a chat with Prodrive/Subaru! I thought that was one of the points of the PPP exhaust...to keep it "legal"?

stu_5

this sounds like our usual elite crime fighting force in inverness- has been on here before if you search with other vehicles in the area.

First thing to confirm is if they managed to carry out the test in the correct fashion this time (there very good at getting even that basic step wrong) - theres posts on previous threads here describing what the correct procedure is. From your brief description of it, it sounds like they've possibly failed even at this first stage.

My understanding is with regard to the wording of the offence they refer to(which has also been covered here) it also actually refers to the exhaust having been altered from the manufacturers specifications.

Key point therein it's the exhaust manufacturers specifications, not the specification of the exhaust itself as supplided by the vehicle manufacturer.

I'd suggest you do a through search, but from everything I've read on here I'd suggest he has a very strong case to take legal advice, with a view not to paying the fine.

jjones

yes, PPP is decat centre and backbox. a standard car will have a cat in the downpipe and think 03 have one in the uppipe as well.

does a PPP backbox have kitmark or euro mark? if so it is perfectly legal when fitted to a standard card.

GC8

Id ask where they get the figure of 79dB from as well as I can fart louder than that. It certainly wasnt in a half arsed DIY noise test was it? This sounds like the kind of nonsense that you hear about at a banana-republic border crossing.

stu_5

As a note- last time a post like this came up it was done in this exact fashion by the Inverness police force...

Iain McLaren

And this is the way they're still doing it....!

GC8

Ive corrected 16x now..... Was that where one officer revved the car repeatedly whilst the other put the noise meter right into the tailpipe and recorded a noise-level louder than a jet aircraft taking off? Surely any equipment used in this manner has to be approved by the Home Office and regularly tested; youd expect that a officer using it would be rated on it too. From the posts that Ive read it seems as thoug enterprising forces/officers are buying cheap meters from Maplin, and have little idea about how to use them and less understanding of the dB readings that theyre coming up with.

Simon

Iain McLaren

That's pretty much how it was done.

The acting superintendant's reply says that the only thing they had to prove was that it was louder than a standard WRX, which they'd measured the volume of in January...

Iain McLaren

My dad's been in touch with Subaru, and actually knows Dave Campion (?) - part of the Prodrive/SWRT outfit. They're being fairly helpful, it has to be said...

SirFozzalot

Keep us informed of the outcome, might help someone else in the same situation in the future!

MTR

Iain,
Various Police forces in the UK use PPP specced Imprezas. Both WRX and WRX STi versions, and previously PPP specced Classic shape imprezas.
I have seen the classic version in Skipton with PPP and all th etraffic division dayglo all over it.

I believe you should write to Peter Kinnaird, Subaru UK's managing Director, and Dave Richards of Prodrive as a matter of urgency.
Their addresses are,

Mr D. Richards
Prodrive
Banbury
Oxfordshire
OX16 3ER
England


Mr Peter Kinnaird
Subaru UK Ltd.
Ryder Street
West Bromwhich,
West Midlands,
B70 0EJ


It sounds like the officers who pulled your dad are taking the p*ss.

Prodrive web site.
http://www.prodrive.com/defaultnoflash.asp
Tel No 08708 502503

"every exhaust system and silencer .... shall not, after the date of manufacture, be altered so as to increase the noise made by the escape of exhaust gases."

This means you cannot modify the component parts yourself.
ie remove silencer material from a EU certified back box, or drill holes in it.
It does not mean that you cannot change one 'E' marked system and swap it for another 'E' marked and approved system speccified for your vehicle.

Cheers
MTR

Iain McLaren

Hmmm...that's very interesting. In the police reply, the acting superintendant says:

"I am informed that for every 10-decibel increase the sound volume increases by 100%".

So...sounds like they know SFA, eh? (And I'm not referring to anything related to Scottish football....)

Stephen Pope

[QUOTE=scoobimax]If this is Scottish law I would suggets a move to south of the border
<flamesuit zipped up tight>[Ha ha!!! The roads up here are excellent for the Scooby - You have some down south but not as good as here!!! Enjoy your M-way jams mate!!!!]

GC8

For every 3dB the sound pressure doubles although the 'heard' volume goes up by a far smaller percentage. Perhaps a complaint about the force to the PCA or whatever its called now (IPCC?); will help.

TonyFlow

I didn't think car exhausts had to have a kitemark? My STi one on my Type R certainly didn't (and it went through SVA). Don't think my Blitz has either?

Agreed about the modification of exhaust meaning the actual exhaust cannot be altered, although it can be replaced!

Granby

iTrader: (5)

I believe that the noise meter has to be a distance from the backbox (i think it's 1m) and not stuck up the tail pipe.

_Meridian_

iTrader: (1)

This thread may or may not help. The issue seems to be the Scottish fed's iinterpretation of the key word "modified".


M

corradoboy

I think it's 1m away at a 45 deg angle to the pipe and visibly clear from any large surface which may reflect the sound (ie - buildings/walls etc) and the engine should be revved to 75% of its recommended maximum. Seems very unfair really, as a Ferrari 360CS is as noisy as Hell with its standard pipe, yet that would pass and a much quieter Scooby with a PPP 'box would fail due to the standard benchmark Surely a maximum permitted db level applicable to all cars would be the sensible approach, like is used at racetracks But I suppose the way this law is written it criminalises more people thus generating more potential revenue. Another stealth tax on the motorist from bLIAR

ademid

I know his son quite well (he used to work at prodrive aswell) I'll ask if he knows anymore useful info.

Ade

MTR

Iain,
The markings on my STi PPP back box are,

PRODRIVE
TYPE/DRG. 1085
Part number. SE 001 SU
EG No. E4 030672

SE 112 SU 11-02

The marking is on the lower surface at the aft end of the silencer body, and is visible from the back of the car. Its engraved on, and you might have to clean the box to see it clearly. (scotchbright etc)

Here is a list of 'E' mark codes, showing the country where approval of the particular product, tyre, light, mudflap, kettle, washing machine etc etc was granted.

eg, E13 is Luxembourg
So my silencer had its approval granted in the Netherlands (E4)
And therfore complies with legislation relating to exhaust silencer within the EU.

Country Codes
1,Germany
2,France
3,Italy
4,Netherlands
5,Sweden
6,Belgium
7,Hungary
8,Czech Republic
9,Spain
10,Yugoslavia
11,UK
12,Austria
13,Luxembourg
14,Switzerland
15,(Vacant)
16,Norway
17,Finland
18,Denmark
19,Romania
20,Poland
21,Portugal
22,Russian Federation
23,Greece
24,(Vacant)
25,Croatia
26,Slovenia
27,Slovakia
28,Belarus
29,Estonia
30,(Vacant)
31,(Vacant)
32,(Vacant)
33,(Vacant)
34,Bulgaria
35,(Vacant)
36,(Vacant)
37,Turkey

Cheers
MTR

StickyMicky

you honestly couldnt make this kind of crap up

simply shocking

do the scottish papers hate the police?
must have crossed your mind?

they might mess you about, will they mess about millions of journalists (well we can hope about the millions)