RichieB

Just been reading the latest P1 against the world thread.

I had a MY00 4 dr and now have a MY01 5 door. Just had it in for service and got an old shape sport as a courtesy.

Let's put performance aside for one minute, because all the turbos are 'kin fast , no matter what model...Have roughly timed my car now its got 12,000 on the clock at 15 secs to 100mph...not bad eh for a totally standard car

The interior is REALLY low rent in the old model...its also cramped (for me)....a pretty unpleasant place to spend time. I just can't understand why people don't prefer the new model. If you sit in a P1 followed by a new WRX or derivative thereof, there's just no comparison. I didn't realise the VAST superiority of the new car, until I had to go back to the old and live with it.

IMHO

Richie

Neil Smalley

I think most people's objections come from two areas
1. The external looks
2. The extra weight, seemingly blunting performance.

The morettes most people fit, go someway to addressing one and I'm as yet decided if 2 is true or not.

The alleged revamp of the looks will go a long way to adressing 1

If it seems as though i'm sitting on the fence, it's because I am

tiggers

The interior of the new model is a big improvement on the old model however this is soon offset by the exterior.

The new model is a shining example of a styling exercise from Helen Keller PLC - it's horrible.

When I had a test drive I felt it's handling was excellent, but it didn't give me the shove in the back that the old model does, however this maybe because it hadn't loosened properly.

Obviously this is only my opinion.

Regards,

tiggers

P.S. Count yourself lucky anyway, when I take mine for a service I get a base model Clio as a coutesy car (Scary - now I know why we have a 70mph speed limit - are the front wheels connected to the steering column?).

Sandman

Richie.
I totally agree with you as you say slight performance aside a far more refined vehicle ,I know people will disagree but I like it. and as for morrettes.............yuk !!!!!!!!!
Sandman.

Mr Emery

i like my01 .
better looking that old 98!
ppp and other mods make it alot quicker than my old 98!
looks better as well!
each to there own!

Jay m A

iTrader: (2)

Hmmm

I think alot of the opinions are down to circumstance (well, dur! )

If you do 20k miles a year and live in the car alot then the interior build quailty is a consideration.
If you only do 6k miles a year, most of which are B road blasts then interior really isn't a concern...

Heavily modded P1 vs heavily modded STi7 - now theres a debate Oh in terms of pure driving thrills, sod the interior, looks, rediduals etc ....if any of the last 3 is a real concern you would'nt have bought a scooby

Justin

Boost II

iTrader: (1)

I was dissappointed on seeing the MY01 interior after everyone raving about it. OK the feel of turning the heater controls was in a league of its own but most of the other components looked to be similar to my MY00 just slightly reshaped. I think there are probably more interior upgrades available - perhaps these are better. Perhaps compared to very early scoobs the interior seems much better. Just can't see it being so good that it offsets the extra weight or softer styling. The fact that most people buy the new car and spend a packet modyfying it to then say its better than the old shape doesn't cut any ice with me. To me the appeal of the old Turbo was its value for money, off the peg performance and aggressive styling whilst still managing to pass its self off as normal/practical saloon. I think the new shape has moved a bit too far towards the latter. The area the MY01 may be better is handling/balance/suspension set up but I haven't driven the MY01 properly and the manufacturing tolerances were large on the MY00 so there were good and badly set up cars for sure. I'm not really into one side or the other I just believe the MY01 is 'softer' and on spending sometime looking over the car, most components seem to have carried over from the old model and just been reshaped a bit so I can't see how people think its streets ahead in terms of quality and design

chuckster

I've got one of each and swap between them daily. For 'fun' I'll take the old STI, for comfortable cruising I'll take the 01.
I've heavily modded the 01 cosmetically and it's still not an attractive car, or aggresive looking like the old model. Bear in mind that the 'old' STI was always nicer inside than the UK car anyway...the crappy switches for the air controls in the UK cars were a joke.
For pure driving experience the old ones (espicially STI or PPP'd) are 'better' IMO, the MY01 is too refined for my taste.
Chuck

Kosy

iTrader: (2)

Fair enough all Imprezas are ugly to people BUT..

The old model looks 'tough/hard etc', it looks like it goes.
The problem is in my opinion that the new shape doesn't look tough enough in standard form. It looks no different to a runabout Mondeo etc which is a crying shame.

Basic laws of phyiscs are that if 2 cars have the same power output then the one which is heavier will be slower. Now you can tell me that the new shape handles better and can corner faster than the old one, but why did they make it heavier???

Im sure that most people would agree that the P1 is a superior drivers car than the MY01. If i had the chance i know what i would choose.

All the above is in my opinion of course
PS Of course the MY01 can be made to look good (ie Dave T-S one of the best looking cars on Scoobynet).

Edd

I agree with Kosy. With the old shape, even in standard form, if someone saw you in their rear view mirror, then they new what the car was and what it was capable of. In standard form I don't think the MY01 onwards commands that respect. Its as if they have to look twice in order to figure out what type of car it is IMHO.

Roll on the Prodrive re-vamp is all I cas say.

Ed

clubby

I had a 97MY Catalunya c/w 17" wheels, qucikshift, bigger rear spoiler and Brembo brakes. I traded it for a Silver MY01 WRX with upgraded front spoiler, side skirt bits, rear skirt bits, carbon fibre interior. Virtually everyone who sees the car says it looks great, existing Scooby owners included - as soon as I saw it I wanted it - and that says it for me.

In standard form I agree the new WRX doesnt look aggresive enough. But in silver, with the standard lights (not keen on the Morettes), and the Subaru extra spoiler bits, it is smart.

I wasnt over impressed with the new interior as standard, although it is a lot better than the old model, certainly night and day compared to my 97 model. This car came with the carbon fibre dash, door panels etc - it looks high quality and well finished.

The seats - I have the "sports" seats, which are fine, but they are inferior to the seats my Catalunya had. If I was specing a new car, I would def go for the bucket seats.

Performance - it's only done about 7,000 miles, I bought it at 5,000 so I hope it will loosen up some soon. It does not take off like my older Impreza's did for sure, but it's early days. Top end the accelaration isn't so strong, but the car hasn't been over 100 mph in my hands yet - soon though, been up to my @rse in snow for weeks.

18" Wheels improve the look of the MY01/02 hugely, but I'll need to save up the pennies for a set of them.

I do about 10k miles a year, and I love the car. Some days I want my old one back, but I can hear the radio/CD/tape clearly in the WRX, and it's better on long journeys.

mbc

all excellent comments from people on the street about my motor saying its great,a real looker etc etc and i get tons of looks ,with exception from a dizzy blonde driving a saxo vts which said it was a sad car with a stupid looking spoiler and why are my wheels gold,but hey some pre my01 owners would agree but with her

Dave T-S

Not going to comment on old vs new, cos it's a personal thing, but, Kosy, did I hear a photo opportunity LOL

Not this time

ga33a

Am I the only person who thinks that the interior of the new shape looks like a 1970's Datsun?

I'll get me coat

Cheers

Gazza

Vate

Proud owner of MY00.
I'd wanted an Impreza since 1998 but I wasn't going to pay £2000 for insurance. When I was ready to buy in 2000 I could have waited but usually it is a bad idea to buy an example of the first run of a new model (they usually have 'niggles' addressed by the next version to roll off) besides I'd always wanted the icon, the 555 McRae inspired model, unabused by any previous owner.
Of course I hav not been disappointed and tweeking the car has proved fruitful. I love it.
I do however think that the new WRX STi is by far and away the finest driving machine to be factory produced wearing the Impreza badge. A standard WRX with lots of money spent will yield a fantastic car which is more capable than the MY00 etc. but I have no wish to throw the first year's depreciation into the abyss for the sake of a lack of patience. 2 years from now I'll be ordering a WRX STi. On the second (or third) generation it will be an awesome machine in 'standard' guise. Will it be 'better' than the MY00 and it's associated STis? Who cares it is a DIFFERENT CAR. Hopefully I'll still own my MY00 as well and I can enjoy both cars. Equally breathtaking but from a different era. One an evolution of 7yrs of development around a very basic design, the other the beginning of a new legend. We're all lucky to have even enjoyed a few minutes bej=hind the wheel of any of these cars, they're all incredible :-)

Sonic Boom

I don't normally comment on this debate. I bought a STi 5 Type R back in March 99 because I knew about the Subaru's performance, having watched it go from Rally to Road and was impressed with the test drives I had.

In the looks department, she is no beauty queen. A very aggressive looking car where performance and handling was the goal, and not cosmetics.

My own humble opinion is that the New Subaru is good and bad depending on what you are after.

Mr Mondeo now has another mid range saloon to choose from along with the Vectra, Mondeo etc. Good on him. Its good for Subaru that they are now attracting a new market, and doing well.

For the hard Rally enthusiast, modifications a plenty.... Exhausts, PPPs, Engine, Spoilers, skirts, fog lamps... With the help of excellent and dedicated chaps like Pete and Scoobysport / Scoobymania / Prodrive, it is possible to transform the Scooby to a more aggressive looking machine.

I agree with a previous post, hats off to Dave-TS. The pics of his two scoobys are great. Shows what can be done..... Nice one Dave.

For me personally... I'm not sure. Having seen Dave's Cars, for the first time I'm thinking "Prodrive STi UK in Black !?" But as you may have seen in previous posts I am also looking at the Legacy B4 Blitzen...

Why.....

Because I think I want a car who knows whether she is an aggressive rally car, or a sexy saloon.

In standard trim, I feel the new Subaru is having a bit of an identity crisis.....

Appologies if this has offended anyone, I hope not. Just offering an opinion. At the end of the day, we're all Scooby fans.

Cheers,
Sonic

Orwella

Supprising how many old shape owners have switched to the newer model. 9 months ago everyone was saying they wouldn't be seen dead in an MY01 and now the story is changing.

Personally, I hated the looks of the new shape when it first arrived. I now find myself warming more and more towards it every time I see one. Perhaps the Subaru designers were not so short sighted after all. After being a harsh critic I am now thinking of importing one.

It's a shame they are a bit slower, but 95% of traffic on the roads will not come near it on either the staight or bendy bits.

DrJP

My WRX's appearance (non-modded yet) is slowly growing on me. I still prefer the old turbo's external looks though.

tiggers

Reading between the lines here most owners of the new model seem to think if any owners of the old model make a disparaging comment about their pride and joy it is becuase they've not got one.

I do have an old model (MY00), but am lucky enough to be able to afford the new model toimorrow if I wanted. Thing is I don't, because like I've already said it's ugly and like someone else said it's got an identity crisis. Yes you can chuck loads of after market money at it, but the previous model was pretty good straight out of the box so as to speak.

And while we're on the subject of old model versus new just to show that I'm not one of the stereotypes I happen to think the new model Elise is a better and nicer looking car than it's predecessor (one of which is in my garage).

Regards,

tiggers

RussP

having carefully considered all the well-reasoned points raised in this mature and thoughtful thread, i feel the answer is.....

"The new one's PANTS!"

I'll get me coat...

(but this is getting real boring this arguement isn't it!)

Reidy

This is garbage, to hear the talk about performance differences between the two implies driving these cars at the limit all the time. Bo@@@@ks. Doesn't happen.

I have owned an MY00 and now an MY01 - there is little to choose between the two in performance on a British road - certainly not enough for the amateur motorist driving on tarmac roads 99% of the time to harp on about.

Lets keep the performance issue in perspective for Gods sake!

Interior is a different story. CD and aircon as standard was a big plus for me as I paid for both on my old car - taking the price well up. Also, the dash, switches and pedals feel more expensive - and although I only do 15,000 a year or so - this is important to me.

Exterior styling - neither cars are pretty, both look aggressive, both benefit from slight mods. IMHO - I don't give a monkeys how the car looks - I never see it - however I have had the lights sorted on the new one!

Paul

Sbradley

I had an MY00 which I loved dearly but had to go when the contract hire finished. It was totally standard except for the Prodrive geometry.

I now have an MY02 which is mine, rather than the finance company's. It, um, isn't standard, thanks to one Mr Croney and his alarmingly good range of products. (NOW do I get a discount, Pete? )

Guess what? I love it.

Funny thing is, I'd have done all the mods to the older one as well if it was mine. That's exhaust, wheels and brakes. The lights on the old one were diabolical, so they'd have gone to Morettes, just like the new one has. The only thing the new car has which the old one probably wouldn't have got is LEDA B suspension.

The interior of the new one is in a different league, IMO. Especially after spendinga whole day in it. Sure, there could be a bit more oddment stowage (why did they get rid of that bin on top the dash?) but generally I think it's a much nicer place to be.
So I'd probably have ended up spending the money I saved on the suspension on the interior instead.

The handling was better out of the box on the new one than the old, I believe. It hasn't quite plugged straight into my fun button yet, but I still come in from any trip in it grinning. It's just taking a little longer to really grab me, but that's probably because the old one was so good, while I moved to the MY00 from a Forester. still a hoot but a little different...

Is it pretty?

Um, no. I prefer "purposeful" anyway. With the lowered suspension, big wheels and morettes it looks like it means business. Of course, the wheels being anthracite instead of gold helps in that respect

Is the new Impreza better than the old one? Yes. Or no. It depends on which one you've thrown your money at...

SB

[Edited by Sbradley to sort out HTML boo-boo 1/11/2002 2:12:10 PM]

[Edited by Sbradley - 1/11/2002 2:13:15 PM]

BT52b

Regarding the "shove in the back" I would argue that you don't feel it so much because the turbo is more progressive than the old model.
E.g. 1) My Elise will murder a standard Impreza (new or old) on acceleration, yet won't give that "shove" that people describe at all.
2) My smart feels like it gives a bigger shove than any of them when the turbo kicks in.

My Conclusion - The shove in the back is caused by the difference between power off and on boost. The bigger it feels, the more lag you are experiencing. Therefore it is actually a *bad* thing.

DrEvil

I like both models, I've owned an MY'00 UK Turbo, P1 and now MY'01 WRX with mods (http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/threa...D=61370&Page=1).

The MY'01 has improved handling, but yes its exterior looks need some work, but overall better package. I would love the STi 7 but will have to wait until after my wedding apparently

The interior is much better....

Mildo

I had never owned a scooby until I bought a MY01 last November and I have to admit, I wasn't sure about the looks at first. It is growing on me, however, and hasn't been modded - yet. It's the right colour, blue mica, and looks great when it's clean and when I appear in a rear view mirror they soon get out of the way!
Whenever we see another scoob on the road my wife (who isn't brilliant on cars) says "is that a new one or an old one?", and they're usually 'old' ones. Pre-MY01 scoobs look good, but they also look what they are - an old design. Like it or loathe it, the new Impreza is at least more up to date, and it still beats the pants off most cars on the road!

ga33a

Hi All,

[Angel Gabriel Mode On]

Let's not forget the reason were on this board. We luv Scoobies. I for one would hate to see a division develop between the old shape and the new shape owners.

Personally, don't like the new car in it's current metomorphosis, but that's my personal opinion and it certainly doesn't mean that I would never buy one.

I'm very much looking forward to seeing Prodrive's effort

[/Angel Gabriel Mode Off]

Cheers

Gazza

Gordo

fair play on the loan car - the last time I took the P1 in I got an old (K reg) base model Clio as the loan car. Whilst it was ok it didn't give me the 'shove' of the P1. Please don't flame me, it's only mu opinion.

Gordo

RichieB

Thanks for the posts guys and gals.

I wasn't trying to get the old argument going about which is best or faster, because, I too, like them both.

Only wanted to understand what you thought about the interior as a place to be, and have fun in (!?)
Sorry but those who donned the macho cap and said they don't notice the inside because it's just a driver tool, blah blah blah, I think you're dodging the issue.

Don't know what others think, I also feel that the later model is safer (please don't be boring and say "because it slower"). Driving the old Sport around for a coupla days made me feel kind of vulnerable, and reminded me of one of the reasons for changing. I think I feel safer in the later car.

Richie

richbay

i would like a new age inpreza, but cant afford one !!! so thats that, when you are driving hard and looking out the front window, i suppose it does not matter what the car looks like externally or the interior....

Dave T-S

richbay
True, but what happens when you are driving down the high street posing, and staring at your reflection in the shop windows.....or is it only me that does that