J_sca001

I've an 51 plate JDM STI which is due to be mapped.

I've bought a HKS panel filter for the car but it doesn't give that nice suction noise you get from an induction kit.

But my question is, what gives better performance overall when mapped, panel filter or induction kit such as K&N 57i ??

Opinions please

pslewis

Induction Kits damage your MAF and may destroy your engine.

Panel Filters add 0.00000000000178657 of a BHP

You are not getting a re-map on a standard car are you??

J_sca001

Cause not you fool!

Why does a panel filter only give 0.000000000000178657 bhp and induction kits damage your engine oh font of all knowledge

Read my recent threads yu tool!

pslewis

Please, then, tell me why you 'think' you would get any improvement with a Panel Filter??? And why would it be noticeable???

And Induction Kits vibrate + coat your MAF with Oil ..... both give bad readings to the ECU resulting in a weak mixture and a melted piston or two.

But, hey-ho, you think I am a fool and tool - so, you carry on

Simon 69

If you absolutely must, then Id opt for a good quality dry panel filter. If youre going for monster power (and will accept the reduced longevity), then Id look for an APS cold air kit. If it was my car then Id retain the original Subaru filter; itll make chuff-all difference next to a de-cat/sports cat or a different turbocharger...

MAFs arent particularly brittle on New Age cars, but air filters make little difference on Imprezas below 350+bhp


Simon

MikeyTang

iTrader: (4)

I think theres a write on here showing the differences between a panel filter on induction kit on a spec c.

If i remember correctly a panel filter is better in low states of tune

shanea

Well thats put me right off changing mine!!

J_sca001

Joke and apart Pete i really don't want another meltdown but like the engine note of the Induction kit, (sad or not)
If there is a chance of meltdown with an induction kit as apposed to a panel filter can you explain why please. I'm not a mechanic by any stretch of the imagination

J_sca001

COME ON YOU LOT I HAVE TO BE UP EARLY!!

pippyrips

I ran a RCM induction with no probs at all. Having said that i installed a cold air feed and had the car mapped to suit.

Induction kits are only really worth it if you are going above 350+

Cocker

iTrader: (3)

Neither will give massive power increase but the stock air box is apparently good for 400bhp. If you go for a panel a search on here reveals a "green" on K&N filter are the best

Just fitted a green one to my STI PPP so feel free to read the attached

https://www.scoobynet.com/general-te...el-filter.html

st3v3

Pete, you are a tool and always will be-fact.
(Not all induction kits coat your MAF with oil as some aren't as bad with the amount of oil as others,given,that they will have oil on them,they wont do what you "think")

Regardles which way you go,either panel or Induction kit you will let the engine "breath" better wether you see a noticeable difference at this level of tune is another thing.

After speaking to a tuner who frequents this board about induction kits/filters his words are "inductions kits are ok" i drive a newage,but i must admit i went for the Green panel filter instead which DID give me a very slight difference in power,not that you would notice it on the road, but it did show on the RR.

"They" do say, however,that the standard air box (not the filter)set up is good for about 370+bhp and thats why i went for the panel filter and not the induction kit.


PSlewis you tool-didn't any one tell you it is bad english to start a sentence with "And"

Hope this helps.

Simon 69

Pedro has started to repeat something that he was told (repeatedly; he wouldnt accept it), without really understanding it.....

J_sca001

Cheers folks, I'm not out for mega power so i'll stick to my HKS panel filter then

Gutmann pug

I have yet to hear of a new age with near standard power suffering engine failure as a result of an induction kit. Anyone prove me wrong????


That said they are a waste of money a good 'green' panel filter or such like would be better.

swifty.....!

iTrader: (4)

as stated no big differance in panel and induction at the 350bhp mark.
can say this as i had wing induction and friend same car as me had panel filter and the was 6bhp his had 351 mine had 357 so not worth it at lower state of tune

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

On their own the induction kit would not make any more power but, if mapped to suit, it will flow more air and that helps derestrict the flow into the engine. Mine made good performance with a Green Filter but makes better top end figures with the induction kit.

kgt

iTrader: (1)

I asked one of the guys at the scooby garage about this last week as my car was in for MOT, he said dont bother with the induction kit as the standard filter system good enough, unless you are building a monster.
He then chucked me a panel filter (dont know what make but its got black foam pyramids on one side and a red foam panel on the other behind a black metal mesh) and told me to drop it in the car "bone dry". He said its a little better than the standard paper version, but still a better idea than a couple of hunderd quid induction on a standard car.
I know sod all, so I'll put my faith in his 20+ yrs experience of working on scoobs, including the garages own rally cars. Running about with the windows down this weekend, the only thing Ive noticed is a slightly more prominent "whoosh" noise as I go through the gears, which sounds kind of pleasing.
Like I said, I'm not an expert, so I took the advice of one.

pslewis

Riiiiiiight, so, this Green Panel Filter gave very slight increase in Power did it??

What was the Power increase??

I am seriously interested what the Rolling Road said the increase was.

Was it 0.5 BHP? 5 BHP?

Was the RR test done before and after fitting of the Panel Filter - same day, same RR, same weather/humidity and nothing else on the car was modified at the time? the Oil was at the same Temp.?

Truth is, and everyone knows it, any power increase is in the mind - a placebo effect .........

So, leave the damned thing alone unless you want trouble by tinkering with the edges!

danfranklin1

Rather a predictable response, Pete. A replacement panel filter which allows the engine to 'breathe' better than the standard element does equate to a small performance gain, so it's not 'in the mind'. And there's an economic advantage to them which will appeal to you - K&N's filter is permanent, washable and has a lifetime guarantee, so you've got that long-term cost saving to consider. Don't automatically assume 'Subaru genuine part = the best" - the cars were built to a cost, so a lot of aftermarket products ARE better than OEM. I think you've said you turned to the dark side and fitted a stainless steel aftermarket backbox a while ago... stop slagging people off who dare to do more to their cars than hang a magic tree from the rear view mirror.

pslewis

Fine, I am prepared to accept that, what is the Power Increase in BHP?

fivetide

iTrader: (1)

I'm with the saving money brigade. Over a lifetime a washable filter is bound to save cash and i'm sure more air = better efficiency if not more power.

However, although induction kits are good for noise i'm never convinced on how well they work. People end up putting heat shields and all sorts round them to keep the engine heat away, why not just leave a panal filter in its factory made box?

5t.

Flaps

iTrader: (1)

The K&N site has a 'find vehicle horsepower gain' search option:
K&N Engineering, Inc. - Product Horsepower Gain
It claims the induction kits (not just panel filters) can give 11/12hp increase on a 2004 wrx. It doesn't say if the filter alone makes any difference.

pslewis

Subaru don't choke the engine of air unless they need to - reduce filtration at your own risk!!

dpb

lol - i know this,even a 10% gain in power is unoticable on top your 250

went for the green cotton thing,waste of dosh,didint care at the time ( with the stuff to clean it with every how many months-i cant remember ) 'sooted' up fairly quick tho and could have spelt trouble if my engineer hadnt looked at it whilst plugging in mobile diagnostics machine and replacing coilpacks.
Dont bother changing anything on a classic - unless your after big hp ( and for this your best off with closed deck block sti ,like i had)

The rookie

iTrader: (1)

Most aftermarket filters are meant to run oiled, in which case even a drop in panel, if overoiled, can wreck your MAF as fast as an induction kit, however without oiling, some of those filters don't!

Simon

alloy

Have to agree with Pete here, a lot of parts out there are of the placebo variety!!

GazTheHat

Had a panel filter at 330bhp.

Then upgraded to the larger (70mm) APS CAIK with Cold air feed. All was well when mapping. More than enough air getting in and went onto making 392/361 on an 18g.

st3v3

Pete-I don't have to prove anything to anybody and certainly not to a tool like you.
Now run along back under your bridge Troll.

rob2006

iTrader: (1)

Harvey on here did some tests on a dyno using 4 different panel filters

In the order of best to worst for producing power...

HKS Green Pannel Sponge.
O/E Subaru item.
K+N pannel
STi panel

All filters were within 2bhp of each other.

Harvey pointed out that although the HKS gave the most power it was the worst for partial filtration capable of passing quite large grains of sand, now that will kill your MAF and your engine.!

I cant comment on an induction kit as the last time i seen one of those it was fitted to my cossie... that was a while back..lol

Rob